Piracy? or Try before you buy? - General

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36746855]Okay it looks like I actually did :v: Sorry. I was talking to milkandcooki when I said that. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] I think this video is appropriate though. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhYm8nLdb0&feature=plcp[/media][/QUOTE] This video is completely accurate.

So I'm a faggot for trying games before buying them so I don't loose money on things that I don't actually want. You guys are morons. Please explain it to me how is it better or smarter or whatever makes sense in your head to buy things to try if you like them and if you don't throw them away. (I can't fucking get a refund in my country for a working, opened game. Even then, that's stupid way of doing it). Just release the fucking demo. Problem of "try before buy" pirates is gone.

I used to pirate a lot. Mostly older games that I knew were great, or other games that my friends had also pirated and looked great. Then I advanced, pirated more games that I wanted just to try out, not to buy them but just to try. I ended up having tons of games on my computer that I never played. AlterIWnet I was specially proud about, shared it with my friends who weren't computer nerds. Then I moved from games to movies. Juts because I could. Felt like a pro/rebel compared to others.. Pirating was more like a hobby, tried out what I could do and what I couldn't. I have bought 1 or 2 games of those and most of the Indie movies I downloaded, just cause i like Indie productions. My bro buys all of his games (except the ones I have pirated to him in the past) and I respect him for that. Now I've stopped pirating cause my gaming computer broke, also got loads of virus'es from pirating that I don't want for my other computers. Well not all pirating, Playstation 1 roms are the ones I still keep downloading, but just because nobody has those games anymore, can't borrow can't buy. Pirating is wrong but it doesn't feel like real stealing. It's a lifestyle

I pirate games because I don't wanna pay money.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36749511]So I'm a faggot for trying games before buying them so I don't loose money on things that I don't actually want. You guys are morons. Please explain it to me how is it better or smarter or whatever makes sense in your head to buy things to try if you like them and if you don't throw them away. (I can't fucking get a refund in my country for a working, opened game. Even then, that's stupid way of doing it). Just release the fucking demo. Problem of "try before buy" pirates is gone.[/QUOTE] Why don't you just return the game you don't like? What's so difficult?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36755243]Why don't you just return the game you don't like? What's so difficult?[/QUOTE] You can't return a game on the premise of "I didn't like the game". That's like buying clothes or food and return them after having used them for a couple of days (in the case of food, half-eaten it) because you didn't like them. Doesn't work like that.

It's piracy and you don't need to justify it to anyone because fuck them. All this is doing is attempting to justify it to yourself which serves no purpose.

You can't really return a game after you've activated its CD key online either, this being the case with pretty much all games with an online component or an online DRM system.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36749511]So I'm a faggot for trying games before buying them so I don't loose money on things that I don't actually want. You guys are morons. Please explain it to me how is it better or smarter or whatever makes sense in your head to buy things to try if you like them and if you don't throw them away. (I can't fucking get a refund in my country for a working, opened game. Even then, that's stupid way of doing it). Just release the fucking demo. Problem of "try before buy" pirates is gone.[/QUOTE] Yeah, actually, you are. You don't walk into a restaurant and demand to be served half an entree before you pay for it, do you? And I imagine you don't demand to watch the first hour of a movie before you buy a ticket, right? The only reason you treat games differently is because they're so easy to pirate. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] (well movies are pretty easy to pirate too, but you get the point)

[QUOTE=postmanX3;36757741]Yeah, actually, you are. You don't walk into a restaurant and demand to be served half an entree before you pay for it, do you? And I imagine you don't demand to watch the first hour of a movie before you buy a ticket, right? The only reason you treat games differently is because they're so easy to pirate. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] (well movies are pretty easy to pirate too, but you get the point)[/QUOTE] You can't really argue against the fact that big games being much more expensive than both a meal and a movie gives people more reason to be cautious with their money. Since a game is also meant to last longer than both a meal and movie we have can reasonably hold them to much higher expectations. Or, preferably, we can just settle with stating that the ease of piracy has enabled us to be much pickier with what games we buy and what standard we hold them to, and anybody (developer or otherwise) who thinks that is unjust or too empowering of the consumer can fuck right off and deal with it.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36755243][QUOTE=Silly Sil;36749511]So I'm a faggot for trying games before buying them so I don't loose money on things that I don't actually want. You guys are morons. Please explain it to me how is it better or smarter or whatever makes sense in your head to buy things to try if you like them and if you don't throw them away. [B](I can't fucking get a refund in my country for a working, opened game. Even then, that's stupid way of doing it). [/B]Just release the fucking demo. Problem of "try before buy" pirates is gone.[/QUOTE] Why don't you just return the game you don't like? What's so difficult?[/QUOTE] Why don't you just read the post you are replying to? What's so difficult? [editline]14th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=postmanX3;36757741]Yeah, actually, you are. You don't walk into a restaurant and demand to be served half an entree before you pay for it, do you? And I imagine you don't demand to watch the first hour of a movie before you buy a ticket, right? The only reason you treat games differently is because they're so easy to pirate. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] (well movies are pretty easy to pirate too, but you get the point)[/QUOTE] Everyone who watches movie trailers or takes a car for a test drive is a faggot then. Movies get trailers, games get demos. You can't see if you will like an interactive product by seeing a non-interactive trailer, review or whatever.

I totally encourage piracy. Big businesses need to modernize; find ways to adapt their business to the internet, rather than trying to selectively shut down parts of it because they don't suit their shitty old business model. It's pathetic to see all of these bills trying to get pushed through.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36757419]It's piracy and you don't need to justify it to anyone because fuck them. All this is doing is attempting to justify it to yourself which serves no purpose.[/QUOTE] No, silly. There are games that gets pirated because fuck you and there are games that gets pirated because somebody are actually tempted to buy them but want to know if they're actually good or not. But personally I just buy or don't buy games nowadays. If there is a title I might wanna try out I get it on sale and otherwise I just say "fuck it, don't care".

[QUOTE=dgg;36758753]No, silly. There are games that gets pirated because fuck you and there are games that gets pirated because somebody are actually tempted to buy them but want to know if they're actually good or not. But personally I just buy or don't buy games nowadays. If there is a title I might wanna try out I get it on sale and otherwise I just say "fuck it, don't care".[/QUOTE] My point is it is irrelevant because nobody cares except the person downloading it, it's just a little justification that they use for themselves that isn't necessary. Don't just try it. Hit and run torrent, play through the entire game, uninstall and never buy it. It really doesn't matter to anyone except yourself.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36759254]My point is it is irrelevant because nobody cares except the person downloading it, it's just a little justification that they use for themselves that isn't necessary. Don't just try it. Hit and run torrent, play through the entire game, uninstall and never buy it. It really doesn't matter to anyone except yourself.[/QUOTE] It's up to me what I do with it, exactly. And I think some developers deserve my money for all the fun they gave me.

I hate to say it again and again. But whatever you use to justify your piracy, you're still being a massive asshole to the people who actually buy the game. As you pirate, DRM increases, just because there will always be piracy doesn't make this argument invalid (much like "just becuz ther is racism we shudnt stop lol" is invalid). You just make it harder and harder for legitimate customers in the long run because you're either too impatient, a massive fuckwad, or low on money at the time. Very few games aren't available in certain areas, only old games (which publishers don't really focus on anyway). Pirating the next big thing, the AAA titles that people are talking about, even years after release, tells publishers "well, there is interest, but these fools aren't paying us, so lets find ways to stop that at least a bit". Not pirating tells the publisher that you actually want change, as they won't see interest or money coming in, and will start to question it.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36759254]My point is it is irrelevant because nobody cares except the person downloading it, it's just a little justification that they use for themselves that isn't necessary. Don't just try it. Hit and run torrent, play through the entire game, uninstall and never buy it. It really doesn't matter to anyone except yourself.[/QUOTE] Well you pointed out the exact fucking reason we are having this discussion. Because it matters to the pirate. The justification isn't a fucking justification, it is a reason. To the pirate it matters that people that make shit games don't get shit whilst people that make great games gets to swim in cash. Again, there are games people pirate because fuck you I'm a pirate and there are games people pirate because they want to know it's good but would never buy it without actually playing it. It's the same concept as playing a game over at your friends house, or borrowing the game from him/her, and ohmygodthisgameisincredible, and then you buy the game yourself. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI[/media]

I'm a working man and college student. I barely have enough money for warmth and ramen let alone overpriced pieces of computer software.

[QUOTE=dgg;36760630]Well you pointed out the exact fucking reason we are having this discussion.[/QUOTE] This is going to go in circles if I keep posting call it whatever you want ultimately the reasons are irrelevant because it is still piracy and what I'm saying is if you pirate it you might as well not give a shit why you're doing it. This whole "developers deserve the money" thing is really funny to me as well but I guess I am not a very moral person. Never in my life would I pirate a game only to play a little of it and then go out and pay money for what I have just gotten for free, ever.

[QUOTE=newbs;36760763]I'm a working man and college student. I barely have enough money for warmth and ramen let alone overpriced pieces of computer software.[/QUOTE] Then don't buy games/music/movies you can't afford. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36761849]This is going to go in circles if I keep posting call it whatever you want ultimately the reasons are irrelevant because it is still piracy and what I'm saying is if you pirate it you might as well not give a shit why you're doing it. This whole "developers deserve the money" thing is really funny to me as well but I guess I am not a very moral person. Never in my life would I pirate a game only to play a little of it and then go out and pay money for what I have just gotten for free, ever.[/QUOTE] That's because it doesn't happen. It is a lie and anyone who says that is lying to you to make themselves feel better.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36761849]This is going to go in circles if I keep posting call it whatever you want ultimately the reasons are irrelevant because it is still piracy and what I'm saying is if you pirate it you might as well not give a shit why you're doing it. This whole "developers deserve the money" thing is really funny to me as well but I guess I am not a very moral person. Never in my life would I pirate a game only to play a little of it and then go out and pay money for what I have just gotten for free, ever.[/QUOTE] So you pay for games because those are "the rules" not because you think they deserve your money for a quality product and don't deserve it for crap. Wow. Tool. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36762056]That's because it doesn't happen. It is a lie and anyone who says that is lying to you to make themselves feel better.[/QUOTE] What the fuck doesn't happen now? It doesn't happen that people pirate things and then buy the original if they like it? How do you know that? So not only you think you can tell people what to do but you also know what they do? You have a god syndrome or something? I've done this several times myself. Fuck, there are games that I've bought long after I've stopped playing them because I thought "well these guys deserve money for all the fun I had with their game and now I have the money to buy it that I didn't at the time". But I guess all that didn't happen because king tiger knows better.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36762056] That's because it doesn't happen. It is a lie and anyone who says that is lying to you to make themselves feel better.[/QUOTE] Your head must be lodged a mile up the ass of the high horse you've perched yourself upon. [I][B][EDIT: Screw that, mods probably won't like me listing these games][/B][/I] are games I bought on Steam after previously pirating it at some point. Contrary to somebody else's statement there are several reasons for doing this, such as the game becoming patched, the multiplayer component available, re-downloading being easier on Steam than some possibly-dead torrent. And actually, you know, supporting the devs behind the gems floating in the sea of shit that is the current video game industry. Nobody ever really donates to charity either, of course, they're just lying to make themselves feel better? But I guess the concept of selfless acts is completely unfamiliar to you, so anybody claiming to be selfless/philanthropic must be lying, right?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36763811]So you pay for games because those are "the rules" not because you think they deserve your money for a quality product and don't deserve it for crap. Wow. Tool. [/QUOTE]No you fucking moron I pirate almost every game I play, not to mention every movie I see and every book I read. I don't act like a massive child who is afraid of feeling bad about it and don't reason it away with this nonsense.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36766164]No you fucking moron I pirate almost every game I play, not to mention every movie I see and every book I read. I don't act like a massive child who is afraid of feeling bad about it and don't reason it away with this nonsense.[/QUOTE] Nobody is excusing themselves for fucking pirating because they are afraid of feeling bad or anything like that. AGAIN. There are games people pirate because FUCK YOU I'M A FUCKING PIRATE I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. And there are games people pirate because HEY I WANT TO TRY OUT THIS GAME AND IF IT'S GOOD I'LL BUY IT IF NOT THEN FUCK YOUR SHIT. Some test out parts of it and buy it, others play the whole game and buy it. These two kind of pirating happens with the same person. It's not the one or the other. [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36761849]This whole "developers deserve the money" thing is really funny to me as well but I guess I am not a very moral person. Never in my life would I pirate a game only to play a little of it and then go out and pay money for what I have just gotten for free, ever.[/QUOTE] This doesn't make any sense. Essentially you shouldn't have purchased a single fucking movie, game, book or piece of music because you can get it for free. This has nothing to do with morales and all to do with market and demand.

I pirate with the intention to try. I have *never*pirated a Valve game, though.

I don't pirate games often, but when I do, I almost never buy the game afterwards. It's a money issue, really. If games were a little cheaper, I'd be open to it. Most of the games I pirate are single player anyway. If I pirate a mutiplayer compatible game, I might consider buying it granted the multiplayer looks extremely well done. I don't consider it stealing, honestly. The companies are still making a gigantic profit off of the people who buy it. That is, unless they're a small company. But even then, I probably won't buy it. If it looked really good, and I had an extra ten bucks or something, I'd probably buy it before pirating it. I guess it just really depends on the cost and quality of the game.

[QUOTE=Derp Y. Mail;36766380]I pirate with the intention to try. I have *never*pirated a Valve game, though.[/QUOTE] I pirated the old tf2 for the source filmmaker, it feels really strange to pirate a source game. I have this strange fear that somehow valve will find out (magically) and lock my steam account. People who say the 'buy it before you try it' phrase are the worst kind of pirates, lying to themselves and people around them. I don't need to morally justify my intentions to myself or anyone when I pirate games, I see it at stealing plain and simple. And I know I'm stealing and I love digitally stealing myself some games.

[QUOTE=dgg;36766364] This doesn't make any sense. Essentially you shouldn't have purchased a single fucking movie, game, book or piece of music because you can get it for free.[/QUOTE] Ok I must really not be explaining this very well. I think it is silly to make the division between what you pirate because you don't want to pay for it and pirating for any other reason, you are pirating it either way. It does not seem like a meaningful distinction. I am saying just pirate it, because I think entertainment has no real value and if you download it you might as well play through it and be done with it. There are many good reasons not to pirate but I think "the creators deserve my money" is not one of them. These reasons include having worthwhile multiplayer you can't access without a legit copy, having the book in a physical hardback form, having low download speeds so going to the store and getting the Bluray is faster, easier ways to get something for free, having all the neat extras attached with buying a retail copy, corporate licensing issues, and so on.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36767201]Ok I must really not be explaining this very well. I think it is silly to make the division between what you pirate because you don't want to pay for it and pirating for any other reason, you are pirating it either way. It does not seem like a meaningful distinction. I am saying just pirate it, because I think entertainment has no real value and if you download it you might as well play through it and be done with it. There are many good reasons not to pirate but I think "the creators deserve my money" is not one of them. These reasons include having worthwhile multiplayer you can't access without a legit copy, having the book in a physical hardback form, having low download speeds so going to the store and getting the Bluray is faster, easier ways to get something for free, having all the neat extras attached with buying a retail copy, corporate licensing issues, and so on.[/QUOTE] It might look like a question of morals but that isn't necessarily the case; supporting a developer can be justified for selfish reasons. For example, you could say I bought Portal 2 because I liked the game because contributing towards making the game a commercial success will increase the chances of another great game like it being made by the same developers, which is beneficial for me personally as I will get another great game to play. The commercial success of Portal 2, which I helped contribute towards, also advances Valve's position in the global market which results in the other developers (that I by extent think can not satisfy me as well as Valve can) declining.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36767201]Ok I must really not be explaining this very well. I think it is silly to make the division between what you pirate because you don't want to pay for it and pirating for any other reason, you are pirating it either way. It does not seem like a meaningful distinction. I am saying just pirate it, because I think entertainment has no real value and if you download it you might as well play through it and be done with it. There are many good reasons not to pirate but I think "the creators deserve my money" is not one of them. These reasons include having worthwhile multiplayer you can't access without a legit copy, having the book in a physical hardback form, having low download speeds so going to the store and getting the Bluray is faster, easier ways to get something for free, having all the neat extras attached with buying a retail copy, corporate licensing issues, and so on.[/QUOTE] Well, again and again I am not justifying it as being something else than pirating. I'm saying there is different reasons for pirating. It's not an excuse or anything like that, we are bloody well aware of what we are doing and we do it without any qualms. Like I said when we pirate games to try them out and we think they suck then we don't feel bad for pirating it or try to justify it as anything else, but the reason we pirated it wasn't just to play the game and done with it, it was to see if it was something I would want to purchase and have, something I wanted the game industry to produce more of. You generally buy something because you like it and you want more things like it. Also, what? The creators deserving your money IS THE BIGGEST REASON TO BUY SOMETHING, but you can't know if they really deserve your money without knowing if you like the game, thus becoming one of the biggest reasons you would pirate it if you don't fully trust them having done a good job with the game. Sometimes you know through reviews and videos, but other times that doesn't convince you or you hear it's very subjective, you know, how some games are actually more fun to play than watch and vica versa.