[QUOTE=Vasey105;37175824]I can assure you it's not a fluke, I've recorded a video of me playing a match of CTF 2-Flag too prove it and it's uploading now. (Will be done in 25 mins or so) I'll edit it into my post once it's finished uploading.
And also, I have no idea how to actually crack a game myself. I've only ever downloaded pirated contents from Pirate Bay. And I've pretty much bought everything I've ever pirated.
And how is my point irrelevant? It's completely relevant, it shows that the requirements for the game are in-correct and I would never have know that had I not pirated it. An if I couldn't play it, how woul that be a relevant example, exactly? Do you mean that if I did meet the requirements and it did have bad FPS it would be a good example?[/QUOTE]
Your point is interesting but it doesn't add anything to your argument. What would help you is if you found an example of a game that said "You need X processor to play" and then, even if you had that processor, you couldn't play the game. By giving examples of "You need X processor to play, you don't have it but can still play", you don't accomplish anything.
Oh, okay I see what you mean. But, in my opinion, it does help. Because if I never pirated it, I'd have never known that I can actually play it. I'd be pretty dumb to go ahead and buy a game that I don't meet the requirements for.
Also, it's 03:25 here, so I apologise if I don't word something correctly, or I make a grammar mistake. I'm just a bit tired.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37175982]Oh, okay I see what you mean. But, in my opinion, it does help. Because if I never pirated it, I'd have never known that I can actually play it. I'd be pretty dumb to go ahead and buy a game that I don't meet the requirements for.[/QUOTE]
You can always ask a question on a forum. People purposely test this sort of stuff whenever a game comes out. There are entire forums dedicated to this stuff.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37176010]You can always ask a question on a forum. People purposely test this sort of stuff whenever a game comes out. There are entire forums dedicated to this stuff.[/QUOTE]
If I asked on a forum, people would most likely tell me I couldn't play the game since I don't meet the requirements. And I have a bad graphics card, that normally doesn't meet the requirements of anything.
The gameplay is now uploaded and edited into my previous post.
Going to sleep now, so don't expect a reply any-time soon. ;)
[QUOTE=Bulletspong3;37094882]All the games I've pirated I've bought unless they're not good or the developer doesn't deserve my money for prostituting themselves (ref. Dice)
I once sent a cheque for £30 to Volition for pirating RFG because I felt that THQ didn't deserve my money.[/QUOTE]
If you don't want to support a company's business practices, you don't just not buy a game, you don't fucking play them.
Not supporting what a company does is just a really shit excuse. If you pirate, just say that you do it because the stuff is of no cost to you, because trying to morally justify it isn't going to turn out well
[QUOTE=Greenen72;37176704]If you don't want to support a company's business practices, you don't just not buy a game, you don't fucking play them.
Not supporting what a company does is just a really shit excuse. If you pirate, just say that you do it because the stuff is of no cost to you, because trying to morally justify it isn't going to turn out well[/QUOTE]
What? The developers actually got more money from him sending a check for the game's full cost directly to them, the publishers (who had [i]no hand[/i] in the development of the game) aren't taking a cut. How is that specific example not justifiable?
Also, what do you think of buying used games?
[QUOTE=cccritical;37176811]What? The developers actually got more money from him sending a check for the game's full cost directly to them, the publishers (who had [i]no hand[/i] in the development of the game) aren't taking a cut. How is that specific example not justifiable?
Also, what do you think of buying used games?[/QUOTE]
It's not justifiable because the publishers deserve a cut whether he thinks they do or don't. And used games are fine. The game belongs to the retail store as soon as it is purchased from the game company. They can do whatever they want with it after that. You can use the same arguments against used games with any type of returnable product.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37176877]It's not justifiable because the publishers deserve a cut whether he thinks they do or don't. And used games are fine. The game belongs to the retail store as soon as it is purchased from the game company.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about when a regular guy goes to walmart or the internet and buys his own physical copy of a game, for his own entertainment, and goes and sells it to gamestop or whatever mom and pop game store nearby
then either they put it right back up for sale or make it a rental, at least one person enjoys the full game for a fraction of the original price and the developer and publisher make NO money off of it or it's whored out for a week at a time to every paying customer, and again, it's just as much 'stealing' as piracy is (if you honestly believe piracy is stealing)
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37176877]You can use the same arguments against used games with any type of returnable product.[/QUOTE]
I don't follow
---
side note here, you're one of my favorite posters for having the balls to voice your opinion even if it's not the popular one, and it kind of surprises me that you're taking this stance on piracy
[QUOTE=cccritical;37176991]I'm talking about when a regular guy goes to walmart or the internet and buys his own physical copy of a game, for his own entertainment, and goes and sells it to gamestop or whatever mom and pop game store nearby
then either they put it right back up for sale or make it a rental, at least one person enjoys the full game for a fraction of the original price and the developer and publisher make NO money off of it or it's whored out for a week at a time to every paying customer, and again, it's just as much 'stealing' as piracy is (if you honestly believe piracy is stealing)
I don't follow
---
side note here, you're one of my favorite posters for having the balls to voice your opinion even if it's not the popular one, and it kind of surprises me that you're taking this stance on piracy[/QUOTE]
So by your logic, if I buy a squirt gun and then sell it a month later to a friend, that's immoral.
I do not see a connection between your used games example and piracy. If you think there is a resemblance, please explain it to me.
On your side not, I find it abhorrent that people all over the internet have deluded themselves into believe that piracy is not immoral or that it is somehow not stealing. I don't care that people pirate. I don't think that it matters at all, or that it harms developers or publishers and I don't like intrusive DRM. But I can't stomach the fact that people need to justify themselves in this way, and that they can't own up to their thievery. Nobody cares that you're stealing games! Just admit it.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37177087]So by your logic, if I buy a squirt gun and then sell it a month later to a friend, that's immoral.[/QUOTE]
no, by my logic, downloading the blueprints of a squirt gun and using a 3d printer to print it at no cost (you didn't pay for the materials, this analogy is imperfect, whatever) has an identical impact on the company, and is absolutely 100% fine and alright
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37177087]I do not see a connection between your used games example and piracy. If you think there is a resemblance, please explain it to me.[/QUOTE]
What makes piracy immoral? Is it the potential loss of profits? Don't they 'lose' the same 'profit potential' via used game sales? Either way the consumer enjoys the product without paying a cent to the producer, only difference is whether or not the consumer payed at all. If piracy is immoral so is buying used games.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37177087]On your side not, I find it abhorrent that people all over the internet have deluded themselves into believe that piracy is not immoral or that it is somehow not stealing. I don't care that people pirate. I don't think that it matters at all, or that it harms developers or publishers and I don't like intrusive DRM. But I can't stomach the fact that people need to justify themselves in this way, and that they can't own up to their thievery. Nobody cares that you're stealing games! Just admit it.[/QUOTE]
Not stealing. Copying. I'm sure you've heard this before but seriously, think about it, if pirating games is stealing so is listening to Pandora radio or DVRing a tv show.
I used to have a moral dilemma about pirating things but now I don't, I still buy all of my games legitimately but I can't find logic in frowning upon piracy.
Be it for entertainment or otherwise, you are benefiting from the company without paying what is owed. It's freeloading. They're trying to run a legitimate business while you underhand them.
And who cares if it's a copy? That's the thing about digital mediums. They sell copies. Their business model depends on people paying for copies of their original work. When you pirate, you are stealing a copy. This copy has value despite not being an object produced in a factory. You could burn that copy to a disc and sell it on the street somewhere. It has monetary VALUE.
The "it's only a copy" logic is ridiculous. What if everyone pirated "only a copy" instead of purchasing it? Well guess what, that company makes no profit and is now at a huge loss because they put money and time into these copies.
No one respond to this by saying the company is greedy, has money, deserves it, whatever. If you don't like that company don't buy their shitty products, don't pirate, don't have anything to do with them.
[QUOTE=cccritical;37177814]no, by my logic, downloading the blueprints of a squirt gun and using a 3d printer to print it at no cost (you didn't pay for the materials, this analogy is imperfect, whatever) has an identical impact on the company, and is absolutely 100% fine and alright[/quote]
It's the same with used games. Gamestop doesn't copy the disk and then make more games. They just resell the one they had. It's the same thing as reselling a squirt gun.
[quote]What makes piracy immoral? Is it the potential loss of profits? Don't they 'lose' the same 'profit potential' via used game sales? Either way the consumer enjoys the product without paying a cent to the producer, only difference is whether or not the consumer payed at all. If piracy is immoral so is buying used games.[/quote]
Buying used games in not immoral because a company like Gamestop owns the game after purchasing it and they then owe nothing at all to the game developer.
[quote]Not stealing. Copying. I'm sure you've heard this before but seriously, think about it, if pirating games is stealing so is listening to Pandora radio or DVRing a tv show.
I used to have a moral dilemma about pirating things but now I don't, I still buy all of my games legitimately but I can't find logic in frowning upon piracy.[/QUOTE]
Did you just make up that definition now? From dictionary.com, the definition of "steal" is:
steal [steel],verb, stole, sto·len, steal·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
[b]1.
to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.[/b]
3.
to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4.
to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5.
Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.
Both definitions one and two are in effect here. You are taking something from someone (a copy of the game from the company) without right or acknowledgement. According to you, only the second definition matters. This is not the case. Stealing means that you are taking something without the permission of the owner. If you take a copy of the game without legally purchasing it, you are stealing.
Pandora is not stealing because the music companies have legally allowed the website to play their music. DVRing is still up for debate in the legal field, but right now it is the right of the broadcasting company to add whatever features to their service as they wish.
Pirating is done illegally because you are not receiving permission to take the game free of charge from the owner of the game (the game company).
I use pirating as "Try before you inevitably cannot play this game and uninstalled it right after"
I hate having a crappy computer.
-Shnippidy-
That's what we've been arguing this entire thread you jackass. "It's just a copy!" does not excuse you from committing theft. Every digitally distributed game on the Internet, Steam, and even retail games are "just a copy" of the game. The master. Taking anything without permission is still theft, even if it's a "copy". Just because something is left (the master) doesn't mean it isn't theft.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;37182084]That's what we've been arguing this entire thread you [U][B]jackass.[/B][/U] "It's just a copy!" does not excuse you from committing theft. Every digitally distributed game on the Internet, Steam, and even retail games are "just a copy" of the game. The master. Taking anything without permission is still theft, even if it's a "copy". Just because something is left (the master) doesn't mean it isn't theft.[/QUOTE]
Wow, that was uncalled for. It's like you've completely ignored every point everyone has made here, like I said, if I can play the game. Then I'll buy it. If I like it, I'll buy it.
[B]In a sense[/B], due to piracy a lot of people have actually bought the games they want because they know they can play them and they like them. I know for a fact that I, along with other friends of mine who pirate, only bought them because of the points I just made. So don't try and take the moral high-ground when you're the one trying to insult me.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37182331]Wow, that was uncalled for. It's like you've completely ignored every point everyone has made here, like I said, if I can play the game. Then I'll buy it. If I like it, I'll buy it.
[B]In a sense[/B], due to piracy a lot of people have actually bought the games they want because they know they can play them and they like them. I know for a fact that I, along with other friends of mine who pirate, only bought them because of the points I just made. So don't try and take the moral high-ground when you're the one trying to insult me.[/QUOTE]
I called you a jackass for posting that god-forsaken "comic". I could say you haven't been reading the thread, as your clearly missed the entire discussion of that exact topic. I did not call you a jackass for your views on the matter (though I will disagree on them still).
[QUOTE=hexpunK;37182427]I called you a jackass for posting that god-forsaken "comic". I could say you haven't been reading the thread, as your clearly missed the entire discussion of that exact topic. I did not call you a jackass for your views on the matter (though I will disagree on them still).[/QUOTE]
Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding then.
And I guess posting that image was pretty dumb.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37180925]Well, I've just found this picture on DamnLOL (Image Sharing Site) And I would like to hear your thoughts on it:[/quote]
Let me just restate this:
[QUOTE=No_Excuses]
And who cares if it's a copy? That's the thing about digital mediums. They sell copies. Their business model depends on people paying for copies of their original work. When you pirate, you are stealing a copy. This copy has value despite not being an object produced in a factory. You could burn that copy to a disc and sell it on the street somewhere. It has monetary VALUE.
The "it's only a copy" logic is ridiculous. What if everyone pirated "only a copy" instead of purchasing it? Well guess what, that company makes no profit and is now at a huge loss because they put money and time into these copies.
[/quote]
By a pirate's logic, it's not stealing or wrong if you go into a book store and take pictures of every page in a book and then leave and just read it later without paying.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37180602]It's the same with used games. Gamestop doesn't copy the disk and then make more games. They just resell the one they had. It's the same thing as reselling a squirt gun.
Buying used games in not immoral because a company like Gamestop owns the game after purchasing it and they then owe nothing at all to the game developer.[/QUOTE]
If I purchase a game, and I own it, and I owe nothing at all to the game developer, why is it wrong to let others play it for free instead of paying me for it? Is it wrong because multiple people are enjoying what was originally one product? What if I invite some friends over to watch the Superbowl at my house, because they don't have televisions? I'm giving away, for free, something that I purchased, in this case my cable subscription. I can give you several situations where watching TV with friends is in every way identical to pirating games.
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37184836]By a pirate's logic, it's not stealing or wrong if you go into a book store and take pictures of every page in a book and then leave and just read it later without paying.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not stealing or wrong to lend a book you purchased to a friend.
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
I have a few Xbox games that allow multiple people to play the game on one copy of it, provided you've got enough controllers -- Halo, Call of Duty, Borderlands... If none of my friends own the game and we play splitscreen, is that immoral?
[QUOTE=cccritical;37184887]If I purchase a game, and I own it, and I owe nothing at all to the game developer, why is it wrong to let others play it for free instead of paying me for it? Is it wrong because multiple people are enjoying what was originally one product? What if I invite some friends over to watch the Superbowl at my house, because they don't have televisions? I'm giving away, for free, something that I purchased, in this case my cable subscription. I can give you several situations where watching TV with friends is in every way identical to pirating games.[/quote]
I am not sure we are on the same page here. Can you explain how it is the same as pirating? When you pirate something, you do not pay for it and it is taken without consent from the owner. If you purchase it first, then you can do whatever you want with it. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this.
[quote]No, it's not stealing or wrong to lend a book you purchased to a friend.[/quote]
I agree...
[quote]I have a few Xbox games that allow multiple people to play the game on one copy of it, provided you've got enough controllers -- Halo, Call of Duty, Borderlands... If none of my friends own the game and we play splitscreen, is that immoral?[/QUOTE]
No it's not...
I am not saying these things are immoral. Can you please try to explain to me how they are the same as piracy? Mainly, can you explain how stealing something from someone (taking it without their consent) and not paying them is the same as paying for it then doing what you want with it. Can you explain how those two things are the same? Because that's the connection you're trying to make.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37185060]I am not sure we are on the same page here. Can you explain how it is the same as pirating? When you pirate something, you do not pay for it and it is taken without consent from the owner. If you purchase it first, then you can do whatever you want with it. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this.[/QUOTE]
How do you think pirated material shows up? It just appears out of nowhere? Somebody somewhere buys the game legitimately and uploads it. You said it's totally fine if someone buys a game and sells it to someone else, how is it different?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37185060]Can you please try to explain to me how they are the same as piracy? Mainly, can you explain how stealing something from someone (taking it without their consent) and not paying them is the same as paying for it [b]then doing what you want with it[/b].[/QUOTE]
Pirated games wouldn't exist without one single legitimate purchase of the game. Somebody bought the game and did what they wanted with it, they shared it for free with others, same as if somebody bought any of those xbox games and played it with friends, or if somebody bought a book and lent it to their friends.
Person one purchases something, and shares it with persons two and three. You say they're wrong for it. Person one purchases something, and sells it to person two, and it's totally fine? I really don't understand what your thought process is on this.
[QUOTE=cccritical;37185440]How do you think pirated material shows up? It just appears out of nowhere? Somebody somewhere buys the game legitimately and uploads it. You said it's totally fine if someone buys a game and sells it to someone else, how is it different?
Pirated games wouldn't exist without one single legitimate purchase of the game. Somebody bought the game and did what they wanted with it, they shared it for free with others, same as if somebody bought any of those xbox games and played it with friends, or if somebody bought a book and lent it to their friends.
Person one purchases something, and shares it with persons two and three. You say they're wrong for it. Person one purchases something, and sells it to person two, and it's totally fine? I really don't understand what your thought process is on this.[/QUOTE]
Because they are creating illegal copies of the game in order to distribute them. They don't own the right to reproduce the game because the material is owned by the developer.
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
It's not the same as a friend giving a game away to another friend because there was no reproduction of the game. Same with buying or selling used games.
[QUOTE=No_Excuses;37184359]Let me just restate this:[/QUOTE]
Like I already said, I was pretty dumb for posting that. You don't need to bring it up twice.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37185560]Because they are creating illegal copies of the game in order to distribute them. They don't own the right to reproduce the game because the material is owned by the developer.
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
It's not the same as a friend giving a game away to another friend because there was no reproduction of the game. Same with buying or selling used games.[/QUOTE]
Even though I disagree that piracy is completely bad and immoral, you do have some good points. And I myself disapprove of pirating the game and not buying it afterwards.
Also is it just me or are Ratings disabled in this thread?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37185560]Because they are creating illegal copies of the game in order to distribute them. They don't own the right to reproduce the game because the material is owned by the developer.
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
It's not the same as a friend giving a game away to another friend because there was no reproduction of the game. Same with buying or selling used games.[/QUOTE]
What's the difference though? The game is the same game whether it's the original copy or the billionth pirated copy, and it's the same whether it's being played by the person who purchased it or the friend he lent it to.
Do you think there's a difference between an English teacher reading a book out loud to their class of 30 and the class of 30 pirating copies of the book? Either way, the students are given access to media for free, by consent of the original owner, one way is simply more convenient than the other.
If ownership of a copy is transferred to the purchaser, and their ownership entitles them to resell the game, why does their ownership not entitle them to give away the game? What is the difference? The only one I see is that the person selling a game used is making a profit, the person giving it away isn't.
[QUOTE=cccritical;37185719]What's the difference though? The game is the same game whether it's the original copy or the billionth pirated copy, and it's the same whether it's being played by the person who purchased it or the friend he lent it to.
Do you think there's a difference between an English teacher reading a book out loud to their class of 30 and the class of 30 pirating copies of the book? Either way, the students are given access to media for free, by consent of the original owner, one way is simply more convenient than the other.
If ownership of a copy is transferred to the purchaser, and their ownership entitles them to resell the game, why does their ownership not entitle them to give away the game? What is the difference? The only one I see is that the person selling a game used is making a profit, the person giving it away isn't.[/QUOTE]
I have already said this at least three times. There is no problem with buying a game legally and then giving it away! Making copies of a game and then giving them away for free is not the same thing because you have no legal right to produce the game.
[QUOTE=cccritical;37185719]What's the difference though? The game is the same game whether it's the original copy or the billionth pirated copy, and it's the same whether it's being played by the person who purchased it or the friend he lent it to.
Do you think there's a difference between an English teacher reading a book out loud to their class of 30 and the class of 30 pirating copies of the book? Either way, the students are given access to media for free, by consent of the original owner, one way is simply more convenient than the other.
If ownership of a copy is transferred to the purchaser, and their ownership entitles them to resell the game, why does their ownership not entitle them to give away the game? What is the difference? The only one I see is that the person selling a game used is making a profit, the person giving it away isn't.[/QUOTE]
This is a gray area. Developers don't want you buying a game and lending it to all your friends to complete. Neither do they want it circulating through the used games market because once again only one purchase was made but many are benefiting. It isn't exactly what I would call fair for them.
I'd say the main difference is they're still guaranteed sales because everyone does this, it just occurs on a small scale. But for piracy, only one person needs to purchase the game and can make it available everyone on the planet with an internet connection.
[QUOTE=No_Excuses;37186327]This is a gray area. Developers don't want you buying a game and lending it to all your friends to complete. Neither do they want it circulating through the used games market because once again only one purchase was made but many are benefiting. It isn't exactly what I would call fair for them.[/QUOTE]
How is it unfair? If they wanted it to be "fair" that way, then they would sell you the game on the basis that it stops working after the first completion.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37185644]Also is it just me or are Ratings disabled in this thread?[/QUOTE]
Ratings are disabled sub-forum wide. You don't need them in MD. You should be arguing with your points, not your 16px*16px icons.
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