[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24973045]You guys sure love saying this. Still waiting for a source... :10bux: says you can't find 3 instances of it occuring [I]ever.[/I][/QUOTE]
[url]http://forthardknox.com/2008/01/25/steel-buildings-that-collapsed-due-to-fire-before-9-11/[/url]
[quote]
Conspiracy theorists often claim that no steel-framed building ever collapsed due to fire before 9-11. However, this is a complete lie and here are some examples of steel-framed buildings that collapsed due to fire before 9-11-01: The Kader Toy Factory fire, which occurred on May 10, 1993. Buildings 1, 2, and 3 all collapsed as a result of that fire (see [URL="http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/kadertoyfactoryfire%3Astructuralsteelquick"]Kader Toy FactoryFire[/URL]).
On Jan 16, 1967, the steel roof of the McCormick Place in Chicago collapsed due to fire (refer to [URL="http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html"]McCormick Fire[/URL]).
As we see [URL="http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf"]here[/URL], in January of 1997 (just over four years BEFORE 9-11 occurred), the $15 million dollar Sight and Sound Theater in Lancaster County, Pa collapsed due to fire.
Go [URL="http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153"]here[/URL], and you’ll find a list of steel-framed buildings that collapsed due to fire as the following quote from the above link says,
[INDENT]Two large department store fires in Athens, Greece, in 1980 are documented in the paper by Kyriakos Papaioannoa, 1986.4 These fires began at 3 a.m. on Dec. 19, 1980, with arson being suspected as the cause. The Katrantzos Sport Department Store was an 8-story reinforced concrete building. Its fire started at the 7th floor and rapidly spread throughout the building, due to lack of vertical or horizontal compartmentation and the absence of sprinklers. Collected evidence indicated that the fire temperatures reached 1000°C over the 2- to 3-hour fire duration, and the firefighters concentrated on containing the fire spread to the adjacent buildings. Upon termination of these fires, it was discovered that a major part of the 5th to 8th floors had collapsed. Various other floor and column failures throughout the Katrantzos Building were also observed (see Figure 1). The cause of these failures was considered to be restraint of the differential thermal expansion of the structure that overloaded its specific elements or connections. On May 21, 1987, Sao Paulo had one of the biggest fires in Brazil, which precipitated a substantial partial collapse of the central core of the tall CESP Building 2.
[/INDENT] Another quote from [URL="http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153"]fpemag.com[/URL] states,
[INDENT]A fire-initiated full collapse of a textile factory occurred in Alexandria, Egypt, on July 19, 2000. This 6-story building was built of reinforced concrete, and its fire started at about 9 a.m. in the storage room at the ground floor. Fire extinguishers were nonfunctional, and the fire spread quickly before the firefighters could arrive. An electrical short-circuit accelerated the fire spread. At about 6 p.m., nine hours after the start of the fire, when the blaze seemingly was under control and subsiding, the building suddenly collapsed, killing 27 people. Figure 3 shows a photograph of this collapse.
[/INDENT] As you can see, the statement that no steel-framed building ever collapsed due to fire before 9-11 is a blatant lie that the 9-11 “Truth” Movement should be ashamed of.[/quote]
That wasn't that hard to find...
[quote]Conspiracy theorists often claim that no steel-framed building ever collapsed due to fire before 9-11. However, this is a complete lie and here are some examples of steel-framed buildings that collapsed due to fire before 9-11-01: The Kader Toy Factory fire, which occurred on May 10, 1993. Buildings 1, 2, and 3 all collapsed as a result of that fire (see [URL="http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/kadertoyfactoryfire%3Astructuralsteelquick"]Kader Toy FactoryFire[/URL]).
[B]On Jan 16, 1967, the steel roof of the McCormick Place in Chicago collapsed due to fire (refer to [URL="http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html"]McCormick Fire[/URL]).[/B]
As we see [URL="http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf"]here[/URL], in January of 1997 (just over four years BEFORE 9-11 occurred), the $15 million dollar Sight and Sound Theater in Lancaster County, Pa collapsed due to fire.
Go [URL="http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153"]here[/URL], and you’ll find a list of steel-framed buildings that collapsed due to fire as the following quote from the above link says,[INDENT]Two large department store fires in Athens, Greece, in 1980 are documented in the paper by Kyriakos Papaioannoa, 1986.4 These fires began at 3 a.m. on Dec. 19, 1980, with arson being suspected as the cause. The Katrantzos Sport Department Store was an [B]8-story reinforced concrete building.[/B] Its fire started at the 7th floor and rapidly spread throughout the building, due to lack of vertical or horizontal compartmentation and the absence of sprinklers. Collected evidence indicated that the fire temperatures reached 1000°C over the 2- to 3-hour fire duration, and the firefighters concentrated on containing the fire spread to the adjacent buildings. Upon termination of these fires, it was discovered that a major part of the 5th to 8th floors had collapsed. Various other floor and column failures throughout the Katrantzos Building were also observed (see Figure 1). The cause of these failures was considered to be restraint of the differential thermal expansion of the structure that overloaded its specific elements or connections. On May 21, 1987, Sao Paulo had one of the biggest fires in Brazil, which precipitated a substantial partial collapse of the central core of the tall CESP Building 2.
[/INDENT]Another quote from [URL="http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153"]fpemag.com[/URL] states,[INDENT]A fire-initiated full collapse of a textile factory occurred in Alexandria, Egypt, on July 19, 2000.[B] This 6-story building was built of reinforced concrete,[/B] and its fire started at about 9 a.m. in the storage room at the ground floor. Fire extinguishers were nonfunctional, and the fire spread quickly before the firefighters could arrive. An electrical short-circuit accelerated the fire spread. At about 6 p.m., nine hours after the start of the fire, when the blaze seemingly was under control and subsiding, the building suddenly collapsed, killing 27 people. Figure 3 shows a photograph of this collapse.
[/INDENT]As you can see, the statement that no steel-framed building ever collapsed due to fire before 9-11 is a blatant lie that the 9-11 “Truth” Movement should be ashamed of.[/quote]Wow did you even read what you posted? It [I]clearly [/I]states that they are not steel-reinforced structures at all. [B]Concrete reinforcement =/= fire retardant fully reinforced steel. [/B]The one building built with steel had it on the ceiling, and was not even a full collapse as witnessed on 9/11. Still waiting for a legitimate source.
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24973199]Wow did you even read what you posted? It [I]clearly [/I]states that they are not steel-reinforced structures at all. [B]Concrete reinforcement =/= fire retardant fully reinforced steel. [/B]The one building built with steel had it on the ceiling, and was not even a full collapse as witnessed on 9/11. Still waiting for a legitimate source.[/QUOTE]
omg if this guy wins then we all must become truthers, so you guys better find a counter argument fast
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24973199]Wow did you even read what you posted? It [I]clearly [/I]states that they are not steel-reinforced structures at all. [B]Concrete reinforcement =/= fire retardant fully reinforced steel. [/B]The one building built with steel had it on the ceiling, and was not even a full collapse as witnessed on 9/11. Still waiting for a legitimate source.[/QUOTE]
None of those buildings burned for 9hrs+ uncontrolled and got hit by concrete bricks the size of apartment buildings, either. Or had electrical substations that blew up, or had natural gas piping that exploded throughout their structures. Plus, WTC7 wasn't fireproofed for what happened.
"The spray-on fireproofing for structural steel elements was gypsum-based Monokote which had a two-hour fire rating for steel beams, girders and truss, and a three-hour rating for columns"[url=http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pd][source][/url]
One, the spray on stuff gets knocked off, and two, even if it didn't, the fire raged uncontrolled for more than twice the maximum rating.
What happened to WTC7 was completely unprecedented.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;24973260]None of those buildings burned for 9hrs+ uncontrolled and got hit by concrete bricks the size of apartment buildings, either.
What happened to WTC7 was completely unprecedented.[/QUOTE]
just saying the empire state building looked like it got hit alot worse and still staid up
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24973300]just saying the empire state building looked like it got hit alot worse and still staid up[/QUOTE]
The fire was put out quickly and the damage was at a higher level of the structure, plus the support system in place on the ESP is not the same type as the last WTC7 was.
Fucking Bush administration... I'm not even French and I get mad at him for all those deaths.
well again i did just get sent to a link that shows a building that birned for about a day straight that stood still
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24973348]well again i did just get sent to a link that shows a building that birned for about a day straight that stood still[/QUOTE]
Link? and what type of building?
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;24973373]Link? and what type of building?[/QUOTE]
i saw someone post it like a little while ago but now i cant find it, so its the job of the person to that posted it to find it for me
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24973394]i saw someone post it like a little while ago but now i cant find it, so its the job of the person to that posted it to find it for me[/QUOTE]
No, if you're making an argument based on that, it's your job to provide me with the source of your claims.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;24973414]No, if you're making an argument based on that, it's your job to provide me with the source of your claims.[/QUOTE]
no its not i have no job after all im a pig so i was just staiting what i heard other people say
edit
i found it here [url]http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/other_fires.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24973300]just saying the empire state building looked like it got hit alot worse and still staid up[/QUOTE]
The empire state building is practically a thousand foot tall bunker.
When they were building it, it was the tallest building ever to be built at the time, so they weren't sure how much to reinforce it.
So they reinforced the fuck out of it.
[QUOTE=The Vman;24973468]The empire state building is practically a thousand foot tall bunker.
When they were building it, it was the tallest building ever to be built at the time, so they weren't sure how much to reinforce it.
So they reinforced the fuck out of it.[/QUOTE]
so thats why king kong was able to climb it?
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24973527]so thats why king kong was able to climb it?[/QUOTE]
[quote]...the Empire State Building is a reinforced masonry structure in which the structural steel beams are encased within limestone walls or slabs of concrete 8 inches (20 cm) thick. This heavy mass provides exceptional fire protection that insulates the steel within from excessive heating. Many modern skyscrapers like the WTC towers have eliminated this extensive use of stone and concrete to reduce cost.[/quote]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24973443]no its not i have no job after all im a pig so i was just staiting what i heard other people say
edit
i found it here [url]http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/other_fires.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
The only one that's directly comparable is the Venezuelan one, and that one is still dissimilar to WTC7's structure. It is odd how it still stood after two floors collapsed.
Also:
In February 1991, a fire broke out in One Meridian Plaza - a 38 story office building in Philadelphia. The building was built during the same period as the WTC and had spray-on fire protection on its steel frame. Despite not suffering impact damage, authorities were worried it might collapse.
"All interior firefighting efforts were halted after almost 11 hours of uninterrupted fire in the building. Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a
possibility of a pancake structural collapse of the fire damaged
floors."
[QUOTE=bepassley;24809378]OP in 3 seconds: "i'm one of those nut jobs who still thinks 9/11 was an inside job"[/QUOTE]
You are not alone.
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24963478]the fact you think it was done 'for pretty much no reason whatsoever' shows you know less about what you're talking about then you let on. I recommend you do some research.
[editline]07:46PM[/editline]
On the subject of NIST:
Here's a couple of slides released with NIST's inquiry.
[IMG_thumb]http://wtc7.net/docs/theory/June2004WTC7_Page_31_m.png[/IMG_thumb]
[IMG_thumb]http://wtc7.net/docs/theory/June2004WTC7_Page_37_m.png[/IMG_thumb]
NIST would have us believe that the failure of a single column near ground level led, first to a vertical progression of failures, causing the collapse of the East Penthouse, followed by a horizontal progression of failures leading the collapse of all of the building's 27 core columns, precipitating a total collapse.
Basically, they're telling us it collapsed like a house of cards. :colbert:
Also, keep in mind FEMA previously had blamed the collapse entirely on fires, raising the obvious question of how fires could have induced the total collapse of this steel-framed building when fires have never caused the total collapse of a steel-framed building. When NIST released their inquiry, they changed their story.[/QUOTE]You have got to be trolling now, you didn't read the report yourself did you? Probably lifted that pile of bullshit you posted from site that was kind enough to do the "research" for you.
Really? Resorting to calling me a troll? :frogdowns:
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;24808863]Even so it'd be impossible for that to be completely in it's own footprint , that would've gone forward with damage like that[/QUOTE]
Says who? You? Who are you? Are you an engineer? Oh wait, lemme guess, you studied at Mythbusters University for a total of 45 minutes and you think Big Brother's out to get you?
[QUOTE=lulzbocks;24975057]Says who? You? Who are you? Are you an engineer? Oh wait, lemme guess, you studied at Mythbusters University for a total of 45 minutes and you think Big Brother's out to get you?[/QUOTE]
Didn't even bother to read the thread, if you had, you'd know that his point was backed up by evidence supported by sources. You people call [I]us[/I] the trolls?
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24975033]Really? Resorting to calling me a troll? :frogdowns:[/QUOTE]You've ignored every piece of evidence against your story, and have not produced anything remotely reliable or believable. Prove me wrong, give us some proper evidence.
[QUOTE=VeoSeo24;24975155]Didn't even bother to read the thread, if you had, you'd know that his point was backed up by evidence supported by sources. You people call [I]us[/I] the trolls?[/QUOTE]
I never called you a troll.
And you people call [i]me[/i] a troll?
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;24975196]You've ignored every piece of evidence against your story, and have not produced anything remotely reliable or believable. Prove me wrong, give us some proper evidence.[/QUOTE]
No actually that's false. I've repeatedly refuted several points and everything i've posted [I]is [/I]proper evidence. Whether or not you want to agree with it because you're so stubborn doesn't make it any less true.:derp:
[editline]07:22AM[/editline]
Still waiting for you to refute said points by the way. Other than your 'disbelief'(?) of their validity. Do you have proof to assert your belief? Mine are based off of scientific evidence and facts.
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24975267]No actually that's false. I've repeatedly refuted several points and everything i've posted [I]is [/I]proper evidence. Whether or not you want to agree with it because you're so stubborn doesn't make it any less true.:derp:
[editline]07:22AM[/editline]
Still waiting for you to refute said points by the way. Other than your 'disbelief'(?) of their validity. Do you have proof to assert your belief? Mine are based off of scientific evidence and facts.[/QUOTE]
Please make a list of all these scientific "facts"
Here's the most concise '[URL="http://wtc7.net/toc.html"]list[/URL]' I can offer you. Don't be so quick to discredit it before you check the validity of the sources.
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;24975318]Here's the most concise '[URL="http://wtc7.net/toc.html"]list[/URL]' I can offer you. Don't be so quick to discredit it before you check the validity of the sources.[/QUOTE]
Started reading it and already came up on something false:
[quote]These photographs show Building 7 in front of the exploding North Tower. It is the square bronze building on the left. Even in the second photo, [B]the nearest of the debris from the tower is well behind Building 7.[/B][/quote][IMG]http://www.layscience.net/files/wtc/2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.thepowermall.com/911inplanesite/images2005/01_wtc7.jpg[/IMG]
Well behind the building my ass.
Will continue to update this post as I continue to read.
[quote]Photographs of the building's north face show only small, barely visible fires.[/quote]Because the only fires that exist are the ones that you can see.
There couldn't have been fires, oh I don't know, [I]inside[/I] the building, [I]away [/I]from the windows?
Not to mention that these "small" fires must have some power if they can completely engulf the entire face of the building in smoke.
[quote]This explanation is highly dubious given that Building 7 was only about two blocks from the Hudson.[/quote]Because proximity to a river is related to how large the plumbing is, or weather or not it's broken (as the FEMA report states)
You fools why can't u WAKE UP and start THINKING FOR YOURSELVES
*quotes conspiracy website verbatim*
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