Wow you guys have your elections really early in the year
[QUOTE=Deng;47598090]The referendum was already done though, and the results were pretty clear. They shouldn't press it just a few months after people voted not to leave.[/QUOTE]The results were extremely close and a lot of the things the no voters were promised for voting no (Scotland getting more powers) never happened so it seems extremely fair to have a revote in a couple of years (which is how far away it'd be if it ever happened anyway).
The SNP are hardly pressing it at all, let alone doing it 'a few months after' as it's been seven months since the vote - basically the only mention of independence from them has been when people asked their thoughts on it and they reply something like 'while we still are for independence it's not currently something we're focused on'.
I've seen a lot of people in England (not saying you said this, this is just an unrelated note) annoyed that they might be getting a government they didn't vote for at all but it's exactly what Scotland's had for all these years. The conservatives have 15/129 seats in Scottish parliament - does anyone really think [I]we[/I] wanted [I]them[/I] in power?
[QUOTE=Freeze;47598172]The results were extremely close and a lot of the things the no voters were promised for voting no (Scotland getting more powers) never happened so it seems extremely fair to have a revote in a couple of years (which is how far away it'd be if it ever happened anyway).[/quote]
Well actually the promised devolution of powers is on track:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Commission#Recommendations[/url]
Additionally, it wasn't exactly close. 45 to 55% is a margin of 10%.
We should wait at least a decade for another referendum.
[quote]The SNP are hardly pressing it at all, let alone doing it 'a few months after' as it's been seven months since the vote - basically the only mention of independence from them has been when people asked their thoughts on it and they reply something like 'while we still are for independence it's not currently something we're focused on'.
I've seen a lot of people in England (not saying you said this, this is just an unrelated note) annoyed that they might be getting a government they didn't vote for at all but it's exactly what Scotland's had for all these years. The conservatives have 15/129 seats in Scottish parliament - does anyone really think [I]we[/I] wanted [I]them[/I] in power?[/QUOTE]
Actually if we went by proportional representation, the conservatives would get more seats. If we went by what voters actually wanted, then the tories would get between 15% and 20% of the seats.
[QUOTE=Freeze;47598172]
I've seen a lot of people in England (not saying you said this, this is just an unrelated note) annoyed that they might be getting a government they didn't vote for at all but it's exactly what Scotland's had for all these years. The conservatives have 15/129 seats in Scottish parliament - does anyone really think [I]we[/I] wanted [I]them[/I] in power?[/QUOTE]
General Elections aren't about what Scotland wants, they're about what the United Kingdom wants and it just so happens that the United Kingdom voted for a Conservative led government last time. This time there's the potential which a party which most of the UK can't even vote for influencing the government, at least Scotland always had the option to vote Conservative.
I'll be voting Labour because northerners are generally nicer people and Labour are more popular up north.
I'm pretty suprised how many FP'ers are voting green. I was expecting us to be behind conservative.
It's the same as UKIP too, I was not expecting that either.
Problem with Greens and UKIP is that they're both led by people who don't know how anything works, and they tend to be just as incompetent and corrupt as the people they criticize.
SNP are probably the most competent party in the whole of British politics, but that's because they have a clearly defined goal they're working towards. Otherwise, they are just as scummy (if not moreso) than the other parties.
[QUOTE=The mouse;47598573]General Elections aren't about what Scotland wants, they're about what the United Kingdom wants[/QUOTE]And Scotland is part of the UK. If [I]part[/I] of the UK votes for the SNP then the UK should be [I]partly[/I] run by them (which is what would happen).
The reason people in England can't vote for the SNP is pretty obvious - nobody would. The result doesn't change. If the SNP ran for English seats it'd be the exact same result as when they don't - so why waste resources?
[QUOTE=Freeze;47598854]And Scotland is part of the UK. If [I]part[/I] of the UK votes for the SNP then the UK should be [I]partly[/I] run by them (which is what would happen).
[/QUOTE]
No-one is against this sentiment, it's the fact that the SNP have made it clear that they will vote on English-only matters which is what annoys so many people because they have no mandate to do so.
Dropped pizza on my postal vote ballot paper. For fuck sake now I have to call up and get a replacement.
[QUOTE=The mouse;47598573] it just so happens that the United Kingdom voted for a Conservative led government last time.[/QUOTE]
Well, with some help from Lib Dems :v:
[QUOTE=The mouse;47598930]No-one is against this sentiment, it's the fact that the SNP have made it clear that they will vote on English-only matters which is what annoys so many people because they have no mandate to do so.[/QUOTE]They have very clearly stated that they'd only vote on the English-only matters that also end up affecting on Scotland. If something is purely English only (eg fox hunting laws) they would not vote.
[QUOTE=Freeze;47599328]They have very clearly stated that they'd only vote on the English-only matters that also end up affecting on Scotland. If something is purely English only (eg fox hunting laws) they would not vote.[/QUOTE]
We'll see how that changes when Labour offer them something to do so though.
I remember during the referendum campaign there was a lot of focus on the island communities (especially Shetland, which was commonly described on the news as being 'closer to Oslo than London'), with a big part of the Yes campaign being "politicians in Westminster are too far away, they don't understand Scottish problems".
If ~300 miles is "too far away", how on earth must they cope in countries like the US or Russia, where you could potentially be governed by someone several [I]thousand[/I] miles away? You don't often see campaigns for devolution in California or whatever, and California's approximately comparable to the UK in size and population.
So I find it a bit strange when you get all three non-English UK countries (and even some regions within England, I know there's a North East Party calling for more power to be devolved to councils in Tyne & Wear) wanting more power from Westminster.
[QUOTE=CoolCorky;47600004]I remember during the referendum campaign there was a lot of focus on the island communities (especially Shetland, which was commonly described on the news as being 'closer to Oslo than London'), with a big part of the Yes campaign being "politicians in Westminster are too far away, they don't understand Scottish problems".
If ~300 miles is "too far away", how on earth must they cope in countries like the US or Russia, where you could potentially be governed by someone several [I]thousand[/I] miles away? You don't often see campaigns for devolution in California or whatever, and California's approximately comparable to the UK in size and population.
So I find it a bit strange when you get all three non-English UK countries (and even some regions within England, I know there's a North East Party calling for more power to be devolved to councils in Tyne & Wear) wanting more power from Westminster.[/QUOTE]
Culture in the UK changes much more dramatically with distance than it does in other countries, just look at accents, they change every 50 miles.
Also the Scottish islands are a lot further away from London than 300 miles unlike the border towns, it's these remote communities in general that they were referring to when they were talking about the London politicians not understanding Scottish problems.
I've been island hopping camping around the Inner and outer Hebrides twice and it feels like a different country over there, they're so separated from culture and politics of the mainland.
[QUOTE=Bengley;47598619]I'll be voting Labour because northerners are generally nicer people and Labour are more popular up north.[/QUOTE]
you know
The culture between Scotland and England as a whole though is generally quite similar. I don't see the need to create a new country when we both speak English and have families living on both sides of the border.
Not to mention that more people speak Polish than Gaelic in Scotland, so it feels dumb about all this "cultural exclusiveness" when people from multiple different cultures live and work in Scotland without any problems.
[QUOTE=CoolCorky;47600004]So I find it a bit strange when you get all three non-English UK countries (and even some regions within England, I know there's a North East Party calling for more power to be devolved to councils in Tyne & Wear) wanting more power from Westminster.[/QUOTE]Because we don't get who we vote for. We don't vote for conservative, and yet we get a conservative government - thus we would rather take matters into our own hands.
[QUOTE=Freeze;47601106]Because we don't get who we vote for. We don't vote for conservative, and yet we get a conservative government - thus we would rather take matters into our own hands.[/QUOTE]
I didn't vote for the SNP here, but the SNP are in control of the Scottish parliament and we have an SNP government here.. What do you suggest I do?
[QUOTE=Freeze;47601106]Because we don't get who we vote for. We don't vote for conservative, and yet we get a conservative government - thus we would rather take matters into our own hands.[/QUOTE]
What makes Scotland so special?
Cornwall and the South-West never votes Labour yet they've gotton Labour governments, Yorkshire usually never votes Conservative but get Conservative governments. But neither Cornwall, the South-West or Yorkshire have their own devolved governments.
Not big on politics myself.
However, I'm not a fan of the fact the Conservatives promised more power to Scotland if we chose to vote no, and now they're already directly going back on it in a stupid short sighted, scare tactic to rake in more votes -- while making Scots hate Westminster even more.
[QUOTE=Deng;47601713]I didn't vote for the SNP here, but the SNP are in control of the Scottish parliament and we have an SNP government here.. What do you suggest I do?[/QUOTE]Well if you're in the position to become your own independent country like Scotland as a country is, feel free to.
[QUOTE=The mouse;47603221]What makes Scotland so special?
Cornwall and the South-West never votes Labour yet they've gotton Labour governments, Yorkshire usually never votes Conservative but get Conservative governments. But neither Cornwall, the South-West or Yorkshire have their own devolved governments.[/QUOTE]Because Scotland already has a lot of devolved powers and is already in a good position to go independent. We already have our own money (sort of), our own flag and our own education systems etc.
Even if sounds silly, maybe a place like Yorkshire being independent [I]would[/I] benefit it? Maybe it wouldn't. It really depends on how small you'd want to cut the pieces up - but I don't live there nor hold much interest in it so I couldn't speak for it.
I'm not too big into the politics of my country, but this time around I've actually been following it.
From what I can tell, UKIP have completely been screwing them selves in the run to the elections, and Ed Miliband has been turned into a meme.
[QUOTE=Freeze;47601106]Because we don't get who we vote for. We don't vote for conservative, and yet we get a conservative government - thus we would rather take matters into our own hands.[/QUOTE]
That's a problem with the voting system, not the government.
For instance, the current polls suggest that in this election, UKIP will get about 15% of the vote. Assuming voter turnout of ~70%, that's roughly 7.3 million votes. However, due to how the voting system works they're looking to gain just 2 or 3 seats. So there'll be large numbers of people (possibly in one region) who didn't vote Conservative or Labour, but that's the government they'll end up with.
[QUOTE=CoolCorky;47605224]That's a problem with the voting system, not the government.[/QUOTE]It's indirectly a problem with the government. There's no way to change the voting system to a better one (like Scotland uses already, might I add) because the current one benefits the two major parties too much for them and their supporters to not vote against it.
I'll never understand why so many people voted no in the Alternative Vote referendum. I wasn't interested in politics at the time so have no idea what was so wrong with it.
[QUOTE=Drakehawke;47605543]I'll never understand why so many people voted no in the Alternative Vote referendum. I wasn't interested in politics at the time so have no idea what was so wrong with it.[/QUOTE]
It failed due to a smear campaign from the No2AV side, they outright lied on their pamphlets.
[url]http://imgur.com/a/hgmbQ?a=1[/url]
[QUOTE=Freeze;47605254]It's indirectly a problem with the government. There's no way to change the voting system to a better one (like Scotland uses already, might I add) because the current one benefits the two major parties too much for them and their supporters to not vote against it.[/QUOTE]
If that is the case, then why is it that the two major parties are struggling to remain in power, despite no voting reform?
Labour is losing hard in traditional safe seats, while the conservatives have had to join with the libdems to stay in power.
