[QUOTE=ScoutKing;37636072]I consider myself pretty out of shape, and i can muster up 25-30 push ups without entering "god kill me now" mode.
I dont understand how anyone could get to a point in their life where 2 push ups are agony.
Does the military kick people out if they fail to reach the expected standard/make zero progress towards it, even with the "get fit"?[/QUOTE]
Yup. That 30 days is end of story. I think they test you weekly too. If ya hit the 30 day mark and are still unable to even meet the lowest standards(keep in mind, this is air force), You're out. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Hell, you straight up get removed from any record of ever being in the military, as I've heard.
That fucktard probably just couldnt hack it and wanted to go home.
[QUOTE=l33tkill;37633405]I'm sorry for your friends brother. It can be hard going through life after a traumatic event. I had my share a few weeks ago. Even though I don't deploy often I still operate as though I'm overseas working a mission. I've convinced myself to keep my chin up and press on. Learning through those experiences have taught me that this is real shit going on, with real human beings affected by my said actions. I can't be there side by side with my brothers, but I'm always there to help them with anything they need. When bullets start flying everything else for me becomes less of a priority. Only to make sure my brothers are safe.
I'm slightly confused by that last statement. You're saying that nothing will never be accomplished through this current armed conflict. It's not like they're going to sit down with us to settle this dispute. They're willing to kill themselves and others to prove that they'll go down fighting to the last breath. They always speak of "talks", yes, but whether they're willing to fulfill a settled dispute is beyond me.
Death is always possible, as soon as the contract is signed you should understand that anything can happen. I know what I signed up for. It's not for me or my goals, it's for the guys on the ground and they're well-being. I don't care if I die a slow painful death. I want them to come back to their everyday lives, their friends, their family. [B]I've been cursed at by civilians for being in the military, always being asked why the hell I joined. It's really difficult to answer because it's too simple of an answer. They'll never understand.[/B]
I'll leave it at that. But for now it's time for me to go to work, to continue what I love doing.[/QUOTE]
That's just like the scene at the end of Black Hawk Down. "When I go home, and they ask me why I do it, I won't say a damn thing. They wouldn't understand. It's about the man next to you."
[editline]11th September 2012[/editline]
or something like that
If you actually display effort and are not a shitbag, they'll keep you and they'll just send you off to a fitness unit and your graduation will be prolonged.
[QUOTE=fingerinmum;37634043] Too many say "well we have a job to do and we will do it", you guys need to start asking more about why.[/QUOTE]
Asking more about why doesn't help the ground force commander get his mission done. We are Soldiers, we follow orders, and we get the mission done. We ask "why" on our free time, but when on duty it is all business. You think I don't realize that the current conflict is kinda pointless? I do. However, I perform my job to the best of my ability so that the mission we are assigned gets done on time and on target. I don't do it for a political cause, I do it so that my battle buddies get back home safely. Without me, my pilots will die. It is my job to send them off and bring them back in one piece, and if need be, go out and rescue them if they go down. The military is not really a place where you ask "why", you just DO.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;37638819]Asking more about why doesn't help the ground force commander get his mission done. We are Soldiers, we follow orders, and we get the mission done. We ask "why" on our free time, but when on duty it is all business. You think I don't realize that the current conflict is kinda pointless? I do. However, I perform my job to the best of my ability so that the mission we are assigned gets done on time and on target. I don't do it for a political cause, I do it so that my battle buddies get back home safely. Without me, my pilots will die. It is my job to send them off and bring them back in one piece, and if need be, go out and rescue them if they go down. The military is not really a place where you ask "why", you just DO.[/QUOTE]
This is what worries me about the concept of military structure. In the US, the military giant is made up of a few million combatants and support staff who don't question or waiver. The problem with this is the orders come from a political establishment that is in the pocket of big business and balls deep in corruption.
Although we can't change the way things work overnight, its still a human responsibility to question what we are told because if we don't, the rules of humanity, decency and the preservation of human life are compromised. I personally feel the military has been betrayed by the establishment because they have been asked to go further than protecting their country and are now involved in something completely wrong. At what point does a soldier ask why? Never? If that is the answer, then the Nazi's and other armies who were involved with genocide and war crimes are not guilty of what they did. Why is what makes us different to the beasts of the field.
I hope I'm not rattling anyone with my posts. I'm always open and try to be respectful of the opinions of others and I have to say, those who have bothered to reply have been great.
[QUOTE=fingerinmum;37644505]This is what worries me about the concept of military structure. In the US, the military giant is made up of a few million combatants and support staff who don't question or waiver. The problem with this is the orders come from a political establishment that is in the pocket of big business and balls deep in corruption.
Although we can't change the way things work overnight, its still a human responsibility to question what we are told because if we don't, the rules of humanity, decency and the preservation of human life are compromised. I personally feel the military has been betrayed by the establishment because they have been asked to go further than protecting their country and are now involved in something completely wrong. At what point does a soldier ask why? Never? If that is the answer, then the Nazi's and other armies who were involved with genocide and war crimes are not guilty of what they did. Why is what makes us different to the beasts of the field.
I hope I'm not rattling anyone with my posts. I'm always open and try to be respectful of the opinions of others and I have to say, those who have bothered to reply have been great.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between questioning an unlawful order, which we have a duty to do so, and questioning the reasons why we are conducting a mission. We signed away that right when we joined. Now, our current mission in OEF 12 is to further secure the sovereignty of the people in the provinces we are in, as well as improving their quality of life, with an overarching goal of securing our exit from Afghanistan. Now, a point of contention I have in that post is where you say: [QUOTE]its still a human responsibility to question what we are told because if we don't, the rules of humanity, decency and the preservation of human life are compromised.[/QUOTE]. We carry out our lawful orders unquestioningly, but while we are performing our duties we perform them with decency, humanity, and strive to preserve human life, only ending it if that person is performing a hostile act or showing hostile intent to ourselves, our buddies, or civilians. We can't ask why here. If we take that moment to ponder, someone may lose their life. The reason why the military works is because of obedience and our can do attitude. If we stood around asking why all the time we would cease to function as an effective fighting force.
Thanks for the reply, you make some pretty strong points there on the value of obedience and its importance in keeping things working. Its a bit of a paradox, if you question, you lose order and effectiveness but if you don't, you are in danger of allowing men at the top to misuse the military.
Every so often we seem to get a scandal involving bad behaviour. We had the Abu Garib prison pics but the one that I found much more shocking was the Apache vid that Wikileaks put into the public domain. I'm quite willing to accept that these are a very small minority in the machine but I wonder if over time, when exposed to high pressure situations in an urban war, an individual could begin to dehumanise some of those living in these places.
I remember vividly the operator of that Apache begging for permission to engage those targets and saying "open them up" when given it. I was shocked when they also engaged that van and killed most on board, some of them were kids. The men they killed were from Reuters who were carring cameras.
Historically long conflicts do become bloody and the human misery intensifies with time such as Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia/Russian Afghan. The accounts of soldiers losing that moral compass start to come out and those rules of engagement start to blur. War is not a natural state for humans despite what history might suggest.
On the flip side there are those who are true heros like the guys who are trying to train up the Afghan forces to take over. Even tho some of those assholes turn on those training them they still continue, amazing work and extremely brave. Its a very hard subject to discuss.
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[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Spam" - Orkel))[/highlight]
"but if you don't, you are in danger of allowing men at the top to misuse the military."
Theres a really good and simple solution to this, its what makes american cool and kickass, and all that jazz. (respectively other western democratic-republics too)
Vote, and vote wisely.
Holy fuck man what have you done
good point(s), soutking
[QUOTE=fingerinmum;37646963]Thanks for the reply, you make some pretty strong points there on the value of obedience and its importance in keeping things working. Its a bit of a paradox, if you question, you lose order and effectiveness but if you don't, you are in danger of allowing men at the top to misuse the military.
Every so often we seem to get a scandal involving bad behaviour. We had the Abu Garib prison pics but the one that I found much more shocking was the Apache vid that Wikileaks put into the public domain. I'm quite willing to accept that these are a very small minority in the machine but I wonder if over time, when exposed to high pressure situations in an urban war, an individual could begin to dehumanise some of those living in these places.
I remember vividly the operator of that Apache begging for permission to engage those targets and saying "open them up" when given it. I was shocked when they also engaged that van and killed most on board, some of them were kids. The men they killed were from Reuters who were carring cameras.
Historically long conflicts do become bloody and the human misery intensifies with time such as Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia/Russian Afghan. The accounts of soldiers losing that moral compass start to come out and those rules of engagement start to blur. War is not a natural state for humans despite what history might suggest.
On the flip side there are those who are true heros like the guys who are trying to train up the Afghan forces to take over. Even tho some of those assholes turn on those training them they still continue, amazing work and extremely brave. Its a very hard subject to discuss.[/QUOTE]
About the Apache thing. They were well within their ROE to engage. Like it or not, what they did was completely what I would expect for any pilot in their situation, even mine. They saw some armed men, with friendlies nearby, and acted accordingly in following that they had hostile intent. They cleared it with the 0-5 battlespace TOC and were cleared to fire. Now, they did however speak very unprofessionally, and should have kept their transmissions concise and professional. They targeted the van and got cleared to engage due to them helping the people they just lit up with the 30 mike mike. They had no way of knowing that there were children in that van. It is a tragedy, but we learned from that engagement and incorporated it, and other situations that you guys don't know about (secret classification) into the several ROE briefings we receive monthly. We now are very careful to keep what we say very accurate, to the point, and professional. As for our attitude towards the enemy, we see them as humans. However, our enthusiasm in killing them is widespread. I have many rockets that I have personally loaded that have confirmed kills. I have a flechette that I put in my Stetson (cav hat) due to a flechette rocket that I loaded that got 2 confirmed kills. I don't feel bad about it because the people that my rockets hit were intending to do harm to my buddies or some civilians. We fight wars, and enemy dead and no civcas means a good day to us. It is us or them, and it will be them. I have no remorse for people that launch rockets at me.
Hey guys can you take the discussion elsewhere. Don't want this helpful thread to turn into a debate on military ethics.
Gotcha. Won't happen again.
hahahha oh wow
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;37648965]Hey guys can you take the discussion elsewhere. Don't want this helpful thread to turn into a debate on military ethics.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I'm going to call this chatter on topic. The title of the thread is "Thinking of joining the military". There seems to be some wandering in here with possible plans to join up and a healthy discussion of the implications of such a commitment is responsible and right. I don't think I've anything more to add and I respect the opinions of the guys in the forces here. I do hope that what we have said might add to a well rounded consideration for anyone thinking of joining up.
Thanks again to SKEEA for helping me understand the perspective of serving personel.
[QUOTE=fingerinmum;37651372]Sorry but I'm going to call this chatter on topic. The title of the thread is "Thinking of joining the military". There seems to be some wandering in here with possible plans to join up and a healthy discussion of the implications of such a commitment is responsible and right. I don't think I've anything more to add and I respect the opinions of the guys in the forces here. I do hope that what we have said might add to a well rounded consideration for anyone thinking of joining up.
Thanks again to SKEEA for helping me understand the perspective of serving personel.[/QUOTE]
No problem. I enjoy showing people my perspective on military life. It is pretty refreshing to actually have someone listen and try to understand rather than rant at me.
So apparently I have flag detail at an INDYCAR race.
Ima be on the tele.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;37655149]So apparently I have flag detail at an INDYCAR race.
Ima be on the tele.[/QUOTE]
Oh man lucky. I love those types of details. I did a few funeral details in AIT, such a great experience.
How pyhiscally and mentally difficult would Marine basic be for someone who loves physical activity and is in the best shape of his life. I've decided I wanna do military as a career because I just love running and lifting shit
[QUOTE=Jmir 54;37662397]How pyhiscally and mentally difficult would Marine basic be for someone who loves physical activity and is in the best shape of his life. I've decided I wanna do military as a career because I just love running and lifting shit[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that there is a lot of other stuff in the military than running and lifting shit. A lot of boring shit and stupid ass duties. If you are willing to embrace the suck, then by all means. Basic training is just that, basic. The physical aspect might be easy. Mentally, it depends.
On a random note, I finished my 3 level training today, and was officially awarded my basic enlisted wings.
[img]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/316755_3755954063929_960570684_n.jpg[/img]
Congrats.
how much of a difference is there between ripstop abus and the normal ones
My grandfather said that one should never say call the DI "you" because you'll get shit for it, is it still the same today as it was in Vietnam if you call the DI by the name of "You"?
[editline]14th September 2012[/editline]
Also does everyone get yelled at or just the ones who don't listen to the DI? And last thing, are Marine DI's allowed to physically touch you?
airforce girls are hot but all the army girls are like sub par i mean fuck, it gets lonely out here
[QUOTE=Jmir 54;37662397]How pyhiscally and mentally difficult would Marine basic be for someone who loves physical activity and is in the best shape of his life. I've decided I wanna do military as a career because I just love running and lifting shit[/QUOTE]
You'll lose muscle at basic. I guarantee it.
[QUOTE=WastedJamacan;37671815]You'll lose muscle at basic. I guarantee it.[/QUOTE]
Pretty Much. Marine Corps doesn't care so much about strength as they do endurance. It doesn't matter if you can lift a geo metro, if you can't carry 80-120 lbs of gear 15 to 20 miles you're not worth shit.
Same in the army, to a lesser extent. In fact, I'm pretty sure all the branches stress endurance and don't really care about strength.
[QUOTE=W0w00t;37669993]how much of a difference is there between ripstop abus and the normal ones[/QUOTE]
I don't own a pair of ripstop, but having compared mine to a buddy's, they seem to be much lighter weight. I was gonna get a pair for myself, but its pretty much fall, and by the time summer rolls around again, I'll (hopefully) be wearing a flight suit all the time.
[QUOTE=Moose;37670926]airforce girls are hot but all the army girls are like sub par i mean fuck, it gets lonely out here[/QUOTE]
I won't disagree with that first bit...but the caveat is that a significant number of them seem to be lesbians, and you can not easily tell when they're in uniform. I learned this one the hard way.
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