Is Steve Bannon joking when he says the horrific things he's said or about his goals for this administration?
You seem to think everything is a joke is what I'm getting at
I haven't posted in about a decade, but I really can't help it. Tudd, you're a stupid piece of shit.
Wouldn't anyone else have been banned for posting so many bullshit bait threads?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Spudstorm;51867485]I haven't posted in about a decade, but I really can't help it. Tudd, you're a stupid piece of shit.
Wouldn't anyone else have been banned for posting so many bullshit bait threads?[/QUOTE]
Wondering the exact same thing. Moderators seem to think it's a matter of him having opinions, but it's not - he's spamming the forums with legitimate intent to incense/troll people, shitposting, making trollposts and then refusing to defend them, and getting away with it, and it's getting seriously irritating. His avatar shuts down any argument otherwise for me.
Placing him on an ignore list doesn't make his nonsense vanish from my read threads list.
Actually I am still curious who will be the first to even tackle one of the points made in the video.
Minimum wage and Bernie's tax on the stock exchange talked about in-depth.
Oh it's this guy again
[img]http://i.imgur.com/caTw8ji.png[/img]
The entire video is filled with nitpicks, misleading information, cherrypicking, and blatant lies. I will be ignoring every single meme made in the video because clearly Tudd only cares about arguments.
Here are some quotes and implications.
[quote]Bernie Sanders owns 3 houses and is rich, while complaining about the rich. (YOU CAN BE WELL OFF AND STILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THE RICH)
Bernie Sanders is bad because he refused to attack Clinton. (BUT HE DID)
Only 22% of youth live below the [B][U]FEDERAL[/U][/B] poverty line of $24,300, and 68% of youth have families that make more than $33,500 per year, therefore making college free is dumb. (THIS STATISTIC WAS KINDLY PROVIDED BY HERITAGE.ORG, A RIGHT WING THINK TANK FUNDED BY THE KOCH BROTHERS.)[/quote]
Then he went into a rant about the raising the minimum wage. Like it was honestly out of nowhere, I have no fucking clue where it came from because it was just a sudden shift in arguing. He tried to argue that making college is bad because raising the minimum wage is bad or some shit but here are some excerpts from that.
[quote]Only """""rich""""" white youth will benefit from raising the minimum wage.
Single white mothers can afford to be unemployed.
7 million jobs will be lost if you raise the minimum wage. (THIS STATISTIC WAS KINDLY PROVIDED BY HERITAGE.ORG, A RIGHT WING THINK TANK FUNDED BY THE KOCH BROTHERS.)
SWEDEN DOESN'T HAVE A MINIMUM WAGE. ([URL="http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080515/5-developed-countries-without-minimum-wages.asp"]YES IT DOES, READ HERE.[/URL])[/quote]
Next argument, taxing stock markets.
[quote]It's projected that you're earn an [B][U]average[/U][/B] gain of 6% if you invest in the stock market! Through deducations, fees, and taxes, it's less than 3%! Bernie will take 0.5% more out of that! THAT'S TOO FAR! PEOPLE WON'T INVEST!
SWEDEN DID THE 0.5% TAX THING TOO AND IT FAILED! (1 cherrypicked example out of several. [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/would-mr-sanderss-financial-transaction-tax-work-it-depends-on-a-lot-of-ifs/2016/02/25/80e2f8ce-db30-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html?utm_term=.074bff9f7671"]Read more here.[/URL])[/quote]
Back to free college
[quote]Your College degree is worthless anyways.
(LONG RANT ABOUT HOW BERNIE SANDERS IS GOING TO GIVE COLLEGE A BLANK CHECK WITHOUT PROPER CITATIONS HERE)[/quote]
Tudd. The video you posted was garbage. Garbage memes, garbage jokes, garbage arguments, garbage sources. Why do you continue to post this type of garbage?
Didn't know a joke shot down arguments that you made
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;51867511]Didn't know a joke shot down arguments that you made[/QUOTE]
Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken for and contribute to that which it intends to criticize. Would you take someone seriously if they told you they disliked trump and his policy whilst constantly making a point of wearing a MAGA shirt every time he's out in public?
If you won't make the effort to try and find a less condescending, inflammatory youtuber, people won't make the effort to try and debate this stuff
You clearly immerse yourself in Trump-related media very often, so would it really hurt to try and post a more civil dude you might've come across for a change? Like, yeah, you'll probably still get instant hate from some people, but it clearly hasn't mattered so far. For as much hate as I gave the Reality Check stuff, I still felt more compelled to address his points than I do for this guy.
There's a difference between real life and some dumb internet forum.
This video is really fuckin weaksauce
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51867504]Oh it's this guy again
[img]http://i.imgur.com/caTw8ji.png[/img]
The entire video is filled with nitpicks, misleading information, cherrypicking, and blatant lies. I will be ignoring every single meme made in the video because clearly Tudd only cares about arguments.
Here are some quotes and implications.
Then he went into a rant about the raising the minimum wage. Like it was honestly out of nowhere, I have no fucking clue where it came from because it was just a sudden shift in arguing. He tried to argue that making college is bad because raising the minimum wage is bad or some shit but here are some excerpts from that.
Next argument, taxing stock markets.
Back to free college
Tudd. The video you posted was garbage. Garbage memes, garbage jokes, garbage arguments, garbage sources. Why do you continue to post this type of garbage?[/QUOTE]
So right wing think tanks are automatically dismissed instead of explaining why they are wrong, Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage (you failed to elaborate the full story tho and naked ape did too), and you just list off a few other points not elaborating on it.
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;51867526]There's a difference between real life and some dumb internet forum.[/QUOTE]
Right, but that's why I used an analogy. A forum avatar and a shirt with a popular slogan are common vehicles for a person to display something they identify with, and if not properly used, can result in misconstrued perception of a person.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51867525]If you won't make the effort to try and find a less condescending, inflammatory youtuber, people won't make the effort to try and debate this stuff
You clearly immerse yourself in Trump-related media very often, so would it really hurt to try and post a more civil dude you might've come across for a change? Like, yeah, you'll probably still get instant hate from some people, but it clearly hasn't mattered so far. For as much hate as I gave the Reality Check stuff, I still felt more compelled to address his points than I do for this guy.[/QUOTE]
Well I can post Ben Shapiro, but then people would complain about falling asleep.
I mean I post Sargon who is infinitely more cordial and it doesn't seem like I get much of a different reaction on here.
Hell, even Dave Rubin videos just get alot of "This shit is retarded" posts without much substance.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867535]So right wing think tanks are automatically dismissed instead of explaining why they are wrong, Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage (you failed to elaborate the full story tho and naked ape did too), and you just list off a few other points not elaborating on it.[/QUOTE]
On Sweden's minimum wage, I literally just googled "sweden minimum wage" and this was the 3rd link.
[url]https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-minimum-wage-in-Sweden[/url]
[QUOTE=kariko;51867548]On Sweden's minimum wage, I literally just googled "sweden minimum wage" and this was the 3rd link.
[url]https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-minimum-wage-in-Sweden[/url][/QUOTE]
Bingo, there is actually a bigger picture to it then what HumanAbyss or even Naked Ape provided.
[QUOTE=Spudstorm;51867485]I haven't posted in about a decade, but I really can't help it. Tudd, you're a stupid piece of shit.
Wouldn't anyone else have been banned for posting so many bullshit bait threads?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
No, really, I don't get it. Why can Tudd clearly post bait threads and get away with it? He literally [i]spams[/i] the forums with them and somehow the mods thing reasonable discussion can ever come from them. I understand not banning people for their political views, but at this point isn't this a little too much? There hasn't been a day in the last month where I look at the popular threads and a quarter of them are Tudd's threads filled with people calling him out for doublethink, shit sources, or otherwise bait-worthy "content."
And then there's people like Spudstorm getting banned in his threads. These bans never would've happened if these threads never existed. Sure, you could say "lol just don't post," but these threads [i]are clearly bait[/i].
edit:
At this point I just don't get it. Whatever, I just needed to get this off my chest because at this point the popular threads list is filled with Tudd threads where people flame each other.
Naked Ape, Undoomed, and Steven Crowder are all indefensible and intellectually dishonest. Their arguments are about as credible as the shitposts in SH. I wish people would refrain from posting that garbage here.
-snip- ninja
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867535]Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage (you failed to elaborate the full story tho and naked ape did too)[/QUOTE]
I don't mean to be rude but you clearly skipped over the bit in caps where it says "yes it does" in the quote which links off to [URL]http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080515/5-developed-countries-without-minimum-wages.asp[/URL]
Sweden is a curious case when it comes to minimal wage as while there is national minimal wage established by the government, it is instead enforced via contractual agreements between businesses and unions, because of this the minimal wages in Sweden tend to fluctuate but it sits around 50-70% of the average wage.
Because of this the minimal wage also varies between what area of work you're in, I'm sorry but this comes across as quite misinformed.
[QUOTE=~Kiwi~v2;51867551]To play devils advocate. He's being more calm about it then some of the banned users that participated in this thread.
On the other hand. Whilst I don't agree with the video or with any of the points I'm not spouting my shit saying fuck this thread and getting mad.
I'm going to choose to not say why I disagree other than I just disagree.[/QUOTE]
True, I got banned for getting a little too mad, which is why I'm not flipping out over it. If he can calmly shitpost, it follows I can calmly express that I'm not okay with him shitposting. There are a bunch of people in here who are doing the same, and the ones that are flipping out are getting banned, which is fair.
Also, watching him (but more importantly, the video) get utterly shredded in this thread is really brightening my day, so I also have that.
[QUOTE=space1;51867561]Naked Ape, Undoomed, and Steven Crowder are all indefensible and intellectually dishonest. Their arguments are about as credible as the shitposts in SH. I wish people would refrain from posting that garbage here.[/QUOTE]
Actually Steven Crowder is pretty honest on debates. He invites opposition on quite regularly.
Wish more people did that. It is why I like Bill Maher alot more than the usual liberal pundit shows.
I'll do a pseudo response I gues
Skipping past the well-poisoning, putting on my Stephan molyneux face, and going to the first [U][I][B]argument.[/B][/I][/U]
He claims that minimum wage kills jobs, and raises inflation. All other things being equal, it does kill jobs. When you set a binding price floor, of course it causes distortion and ~~~deadweight loss~~~.
However, the real world is a lot more complicated than that. A lot of moving parts are in play that I'd probably fuck if I tried to explain them all. In addition to that, let's say it does dampen growth, that isn't necessary a BAD thing considering the social cost of people being able to like. Live.
[URL]http://www.attn.com/stories/4920/united-states-minimum-wage-and-rent?utm_source=other98&utm_medium=fbpost&utm_campaign=influencer[/URL]
Here's a fun little bit of info on our current position.
And, here's some sources showing that it's not just a bad idea in general to raise the minimum wage.
[URL]http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf[/URL] - early 90s, before this, everyone was pretty much jerking that raising it would raise unemployment. Here no real extra unemployment is found.
[URL]http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf[/URL] - A national government study concludes that in aggregate, raising the minimum wage would INCREASE employment.
[URL]http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm[/URL] - A fiscal conservative news source concluding that done moderately, minimum wage increases have good benefits. And summarizing a lot of points and data.
Of course, not all increases will universally be good. If you set it to $100 dollars an hour. Lol. But just like most policies like taxation, this is something to figure out where it should be set at. Not just universally handwaved with spooks about unemployment and waaagh now they can't afford things.
And just real quick, he claims that mostly rich liberal teens will benefit from an increase. [URL="http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/"]That's a crock of shit[/URL]. What this reductionist ~naughty boy~ did was looking solely at those of whom are working on the current minimum wage right now, instead of looking at everyone who'll benefit from a raise.
he also mentioned inflation, but I'd just be repeating what I posted before with different studies. It depends on what the minimum wage is set at and the conditions of the economy and bla bla bla. Btw, he shouldn't use the poverty line as an argument, it's lower than what you can live off of in most places at about 11-12k.
Also he FUGGEN LIEd when he said sweden lacks minimum wage. They don't have a government set minimum wage, but unions in sweden are very powerful and they negotiate and set minimum wages. De facto, it's a price floor. It's a minimum wage.
I'll skip over the wallstreet speculation thing, since I do agree a tobin tax is shit lol.
He also didn't do an actual refutation of bernie's college plan lmao. btw bernie's college plan is SHIT. But not for any of the reasons he gave (so im not going to go into it since it's irrelevant.) Free college is a good idea, but the devil is in the details and you can fuck it up. Probably should just copy-paste germany's system or something bernie.
Though the nice thing about Bernie is that he actually does listen and is genuine, so unlike Mr. Trump he actually is more likely to listen and compromise. But that's just my assumption. Donald Trump still absolutely creams bernie when it comes to spitting out batshit crazy economics lol.
[sp]his voice is annoying[/sp]
[QUOTE=Reagy;51867569]I don't mean to be rude but you clearly skipped over the bit in caps where it says "yes it does" in the quote which links off to [URL]http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080515/5-developed-countries-without-minimum-wages.asp[/URL]
Sweden is a curious case when it comes to minimal wage as while there is national minimal wage established by the government, it is instead enforced via contractual agreements between businesses and unions, because of this the minimal wages in Sweden tend to fluctuate but it sits around 50-70% of the average wage.
Because of this the minimal wage also varies between what area of work you're in, I'm sorry but this comes across as quite misinformed.[/QUOTE]
So why is this an argument for raising the minimum wage when you are arguing for unions at this point then?
[QUOTE=aurum481;51867453]First of all, find a non shit video[/QUOTE]
Tudd, are you not going to tackle this point? Why do you think this video is good and warrants discussion about the points it presents?
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867535]So right wing think tanks are automatically dismissed instead of explaining why they are wrong[/quote]
Stop strawmanning, Tudd. The Heritage Foundation is the Trump Supporter's mental projection of Soros, but made real. Funded by the Koch Brothers, two of the most "my interests first" funders in american history. They've had an impact on Trump's Transition team, as well.
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/06/politics/donald-trump-heritage-foundation-transition/index.html[/url]
There's a reason why the republican candidates were cozying up to the Koch Brothers. They have the money.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867535]Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage (you failed to elaborate the full story tho and naked ape did too), and you just list off a few other points not elaborating on it.[/QUOTE]
Sweden doesn't have a federal minimum wage. The minimum wage is regulated by union sit-downs.
[quote]Sweden
Sweden is often touted as the poster-child for abolishing the minimum wage. However, the Nordic nation is certainly no free-market free-for-all. Instead, minimum wages are set by sector or industry through collective bargaining. Nearly all Swedish citizens belong to one of about 60 trade unions and 50 employers' organizations that negotiate wage rates for regular hourly work, salaries and overtime. The minimum wage tends to hover near 60-70% of the average wage in Sweden.
Swedish law limits the workweek to 40 hours, just like in the U.S. However, it also dictates that all workers are entitled to 25 paid vacation days and 16 additional public holidays each year, which is far more generous than the U.S. standard.[/quote]
[url]http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080515/5-developed-countries-without-minimum-wages.asp[/url]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867579]So why is this an argument for raising the minimum wage when you are arguing for unions at this point then?[/QUOTE]
The point made was that Sweden doesn't have a minimal wage when it does, its just managed in a unique way.
It has nothing to actually do with rising or arguing for unions, I'm raising the point that the whole Sweden doesn't have a minimal wage is incorrect information.
Please read.
[QUOTE=Reagy;51867585]The point made was that Sweden doesn't have a minimal wage when it does, its just managed in a unique way.[/quote]
Except it is incredibly different and doesn't provide any direct reason the $15 minimum wage is a good idea.
[quote]
It has nothing to actually do with rising or arguing for unions, I'm raising the point that the whole Sweden doesn't have a minimal wage is incorrect information.
Please read.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't have a minimum wage, but it has a complex union system instead that is nothing like a $15 minimum wage.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867594]Except it is incredibly different and doesn't provide any direct reason the $15 minimum wage is a good idea.
It doesn't have a minimum wage, but it has a complex union system instead that is nothing like a $15 minimum wage.[/QUOTE]
Brah I told you this in the discord.
What is a minimum wage? It's a price floor, where wages cannot be set below it. It just happens that Sweden has multiple "minimum wages" set by very powerful unions.
Sweden, by the way has one of the highest labor costs in all of Europe.
[sp]edit: finding these minimum wages is pretty damn hard though. I'm not looking through several pages of union contracts lol[/sp]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51867594]Except it is incredibly different and doesn't provide any direct reason the $15 minimum wage is a good idea.
It doesn't have a minimum wage, but it has a complex union system instead that is nothing like a $15 minimum wage.[/QUOTE]
It's a de-facto minimum wage, is that so hard for you to understand?
The US is a completely different situation, in which labor laws and unionization rates mean that this isn't how things work, and therefore a legalized minimum wage is what people prusue instead. It's just a difference of method to reach the same goal.
Now, as to why a $15 minimum wage would be a good thing in most places (I do think it would be fair to adjust it lower for the cost of living for different areas too, rather than simply being $15. Pegging it adjust yearly based on cost of living w/ an upper limit % wise would also be cool):
People living and not suffering in poverty is good (morally)
People spending money is good (economically)
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51867575]I'll do a pseudo response I gues
Skipping past the well-poisoning, putting on my Stephan molyneux face, and going to the first [U][I][B]argument.[/B][/I][/U]
He claims that minimum wage kills jobs, and raises inflation. All other things being equal, it does kill jobs. When you set a binding price floor, of course it causes distortion and ~~~deadweight loss~~~. [/quote]
Yep.
[quote]
However, the real world is a lot more complicated than that. A lot of moving parts are in play that I'd probably fuck if I tried to explain them all. In addition to that, let's say it does dampen growth, that isn't necessary a BAD thing considering the social cost of people being able to like. Live.
[URL]http://www.attn.com/stories/4920/united-states-minimum-wage-and-rent?utm_source=other98&utm_medium=fbpost&utm_campaign=influencer[/URL]
Here's a fun little bit of info on our current position.
[/quote]
That is a problem but does minimum wage really solve this issue? Especially if the prices just rise to compensate?
[quote]
And, here's some sources showing that it's not just a bad idea in general to raise the minimum wage.
[URL]http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf[/URL] - early 90s, before this, everyone was pretty much jerking that raising it would raise unemployment. Here no real extra unemployment is found.
[URL]http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf[/URL] - A national government study concludes that in aggregate, raising the minimum wage would INCREASE employment.
[URL]http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm[/URL] - A fiscal conservative news source concluding that done moderately, minimum wage increases have good benefits. And summarizing a lot of points and data.[/quote]
There are several studies, and I would even argue more numerous, that show quite the opposite. I think what I link below does a pretty good comprehensive job on covering this while looking at the partisan sides.
[url]https://journalistsresource.org/studies/economics/inequality/the-effects-of-raising-the-minimum-wage[/url]
[quote]
And just real quick, he claims that mostly rich liberal teens will benefit from an increase. [URL="http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/"]That's a crock of shit[/URL]. What this reductionist ~naughty boy~ did was looking solely at those of whom are working on the current minimum wage right now, instead of looking at everyone who'll benefit from a raise.[/quote]
His point also included that the poor people who got the minimum wage increase would also have to deal with the inevitable price increases. As opposed to a teenage in high school who can use the money for fuck all purposes.
[quote]
Also he FUGGEN LIEd when he said sweden lacks minimum wage. They don't have a government set minimum wage, but unions in sweden are very powerful and they negotiate and set minimum wages. De facto, it's a price floor. It's a minimum wage. [/quote]
Yes he didn't cover that, but it isn't a minimum wage in the traditional way.
[editline]24th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Octavius;51867602]It's a de-facto minimum wage, is that so hard for you to understand?
[/QUOTE]
Except it is way more dynamic than that and changes on the company and union. So no it isn't de-facto at all. I am willing to say it is actually a pretty smart idea.
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