Totalbiscuit - The Framerate Police - General

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48240520]How is TB harassing indies by saying "This game is locked at 30 fps"[/QUOTE] People will say anything just to paint TB as some evil indie hater. Blinded by ignorance.

I don't follow TB religiously, but I don't think that he automatically dismisses a game if it runs in 30 FPS. In his reviews or impressions, he'll usually mention if the Frame Rate Cap is an issue or not. EDIT: And yeah, 60 FPS should be the standard for PC gaming.

Like I don't really care if a game is at 60 fps or 30 fps (though given the option I'll always take 60) but why are some people making this curator group out to be a bad thing? This is useful information for some where it matters, especially if what I'm reading is right - steam disallowed it as a tag (wtf?). This doesn't seem to be a "Aha! Evil dev caps at 30fps do not buy!!!!one!" but rather "This game is capped at 30 FPS" and then the consumer can do whatever they want with that info.

[QUOTE=Inspector Jones;48240582]I don't follow TB religiously, but I don't think that he automatically dismisses a game if it runs in 30 FPS. In his reviews or impressions, he'll usually mention if the Frame Rate Cap is an issue or not. EDIT: And yeah, 60 FPS should be the standard for PC gaming.[/QUOTE] 60 fps should be the standard. TB does not dismiss games for lacking any feature, be it 30 fps lock or low fov or no resolution settings(like wtf devs). He does mention those issues and that's why I watch his game overviews.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;48240219][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/23DptA3.png?1[/IMG] he just trying to derail the thread[/QUOTE] And he's already been banned once for the same shit Also, if someone wants to know about the kind of games Eric and his team has been putting out in the past, look no further: [video=youtube;FxYKu_lkY_4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYKu_lkY_4[/video]

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;48240666]Also, if someone wants to know about the kind of games Eric and his team has been putting out in the past, look no further: -video-[/QUOTE] yea but what FPS does it run at

[QUOTE=Eric95;48240053]Well, since you guys keep focusing on me personally instead of the arguments I bring up I figured I'd just tell you that I actually don't have any opinion at all about this and I only figured I'd represent an opinion I saw a lot of indie developers have on twitter in this thread, to bring that side into the discussion here. Since everyone here is a consumer rather than a developer and there isn't much opposition here otherwise.[/QUOTE] I'm a dev, I brought up some valid arguments against your ideas and opinions but also underlined the issues that come up with having an super smooth running uncapped videogame. Sadly cannot I go too much into detail because I lack most of the knowledge of what the guys are doing in the coding department, since I focus on art and my given tasks... however, I have listened to the programmers of every team and studio I ever worked with and talked about these issues and many others when I found some time during lunch or after a hard days work. And the thing is that they care about a smooth framerate and +60fps is what most devs desire, however, sometimes your hands are just bound because of some restrictions that pop up during the development or in pre-production. [QUOTE=Eric95;48240053]I personally don't give a shit about this at all, I barely even play games anymore and I haven't made a game in over a year. I thought it'd be obvious that i was acting like a stereotypical indie dev when I said I only make games for people who wear sunglasses and drink lattes but I guess not I wouldn't normally say this but some of you guys are taking this way beyond this thread and making it really personal, and I don't want it to hurt my actual career so I just had to admit it. Bye.[/QUOTE] The problem why everyone is so fixated on you is that you present every of your arguments as THE only valid option that every dev has apparently in his mind. If you say that you want to create an unique game one day where the framerate IS part of the gameplay and stilistic element. Then you set yourself a great goal because this part of experimental games isn't really touched yet and I am sure that you could come up with some great ideas. However, saying that when you're making a videogame you wont give a damn about framerate at all and "as long as it looks good" the framerate is absolutely unimportant and shouldn't matter... or that devs should have sitcked to 30fps and be fine with it... then that's not an valid argument... it's a very subjective personal opinion that doesn't have much truth to it and it really upsets other people and their stance on this matter. You are hurting your own career right now, you already did so some pages ago and I don't understand why you can't just stop and rethink your arguments. You have so much talent Eric but you have to learn to be more neutral and objective about your ideas and the opinions of other people.

[QUOTE=Eric95;48240053]Well, since you guys keep focusing on me personally instead of the arguments I bring up I figured I'd just tell you that I actually don't have any opinion at all about this and I only figured I'd represent an opinion I saw a lot of indie developers have on twitter in this thread, to bring that side into the discussion here. Since everyone here is a consumer rather than a developer and there isn't much opposition here otherwise I personally don't give a shit about this at all, I barely even play games anymore and I haven't made a game in over a year. I thought it'd be obvious that i was acting like a stereotypical indie dev when I said I only make games for people who wear sunglasses and drink lattes but I guess not I wouldn't normally say this but some of you guys are taking this way beyond this thread and making it really personal, and I don't want it to hurt my actual career so I just had to admit it. Bye.[/QUOTE] "Jokes on them I was only pretending to be retarded!"

[QUOTE=Eric95;48240053] I personally don't give a shit about this at all[/QUOTE] Why did you whine for however many pages it is now then?

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;48240666]And he's already been banned once for the same shit Also, if someone wants to know about the kind of games Eric and his team has been putting out in the past, look no further: [video=youtube;FxYKu_lkY_4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYKu_lkY_4[/video][/QUOTE] You can criticize his attitude all you want, but how dare you criticize supra mayro kratt [editline]19th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=krutomisi;48240698]yea but what FPS does it run at[/QUOTE] Runs at a solid 120 on my computer

Supra Mayro Kratt is the epitome of the indie scene. It's set a defined line between what is genuinely art, and what pretends to be art. It doesn't try to understand itself; it simply is. To question Supra Mayro Kratt is to question everything it has changed in the gaming scene.

:snip:

Only got around to watching this video just now. I think the bigger issue here is Steam's lack of more detailed specifications on game pages. It would be nice to see stuff such as what the FPS cap is. I do notice nowadays the difference between a game that runs on a silkier 60+ framerate vs lower ones. Warframe locks itself to 50 GPS when you enable VSync and just that small difference has an effect on how fast I feel my character reacts and moves on screen. It's not that the game is broken; it's an uncomfortable disconnect between me and the game visually.

warframes vsync code is a shitshow anyway, like it locks it to 60 for me, but does regular dips into the 30's, with an average between 40 and 50. While without it, it runs at like 150+

[QUOTE=Crimor;48242857]warframes vsync code is a shitshow anyway, like it locks it to 60 for me, but does regular dips into the 30's, with an average between 40 and 50. While without it, it runs at like 150+[/QUOTE] Warframe as a whole is a shitshow :v:

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;48242930]Warframe as a whole is a shitshow :v:[/QUOTE] I've played since early closed beta, trust me I know. But the vsync code is something else, coming from someone who couldn't be in lobbies for more than 20 seconds before it booted me out of it, for about 4 months that's saying something.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48240520]How is TB harassing indies by saying "This game is locked at 30 fps"? [/QUOTE] TB has a massive fanbase following him, and he reviews games. Some of those games are complete garbage and by showing this, TB prevents shitbags from raking in easy money with their half-assed games. This causes anger in the shitbags. So they do anything to make him look bad so people won't follow him / believe him.

[QUOTE=Eric95;48239364]Here's a pic an indie dev posted on twitter: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pzas6fY.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] you know what, looking at the actual curator page they do have a v legit point it is displaying as the default curator on a bunch of games where FPS like doesn't even matter - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/274230/]turn based platformer[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/363970/]clicker heros[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/296490/]tower defense[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/363970/]another tower defense[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/209790/]gene splicing[/url] and there are more like that and the page is basically brand new is it fair to those games to have the curator spot taken away buy a line of text that just says '30fps"? as a stand alone website or something I think this would be a good idea, but having it shit up and abuse what is meant to be a review system is not a good idea

[QUOTE=DMGaina;48240702]I'm a dev, I brought up some valid arguments against your ideas and opinions but also underlined the issues that come up with having an super smooth running uncapped videogame. Sadly cannot I go too much into detail because I lack most of the knowledge of what the guys are doing in the coding department, since I focus on art and my given tasks... however, I have listened to the programmers of every team and studio I ever worked with and talked about these issues and many others when I found some time during lunch or after a hard days work. And the thing is that they care about a smooth framerate and +60fps is what most devs desire, however, sometimes your hands are just bound because of some restrictions that pop up during the development or in pre-production.[/QUOTE] This just goes back to what has been mentioned earlier. Game logic should never, EVER be tied to frame ticks. There is no excuse for it at all under any circumstance. Not even in experimental games is it acceptable. [editline]19th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=krutomisi;48245864]you know what, looking at the actual curator page they do have a v legit point it is displaying as the default curator on a bunch of games where FPS like doesn't even matter - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/274230/]turn based platformer[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/363970/]clicker heros[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/296490/]tower defense[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/363970/]another tower defense[/url] - [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/209790/]gene splicing[/url] and there are more like that and the page is basically brand new is it fair to those games to have the curator spot taken away buy a line of text that just says '30fps"? as a stand alone website or something I think this would be a good idea, but having it shit up and abuse what is meant to be a review system is not a good idea[/QUOTE] I'd rather have that than introduce subjective crap into it personally. The fact that it shows up as the default curator is a failing on steams part because they chose to be a bunch of goddam nannies with their failure of a tagging system.

It shows on games where it's not important because it's an objective list, not subjective.

[QUOTE=Crimor;48245962]It shows on games where it's not important because it's an objective list, not subjective.[/QUOTE] the point is it is taking up an area that is intended for reviews, something that is inherently subjective that "objectively" hurts those games by taking away a prominent review location on a storefront

[QUOTE=krutomisi;48245995]the point is it is taking up an area that is intended for reviews, something that is inherently subjective the "objectively" hurts those games by taking away a review prominent area[/QUOTE] I admit, that can be a bit of an issue. But the problem isn't with TB or the curator. He doesn't have the control over whether or not it appears as the default curator. It's an issue with Steam's system. And even then, claiming it has a 30fps lock is still in no way intended to be a "badge of shame", as that post puts it. I mean if you want to point fingers, then the problem is that there was a push to remove the 30fps tag in the first place. Still, if there were a way that could be a avoided, that'd be good news for everyone. I doubt even TB wants that to be the case. He was very much in favor of the curator system and using it to bring publicity to lesser known games.

Maybe devs shouldn't have pushed to remove important tags like 30fpscap etc. then, you reap what you sow.

[QUOTE=krutomisi;48245995]the point is it is taking up an area that is intended for reviews, something that is inherently subjective that "objectively" hurts those games by taking away a prominent review location on a storefront[/QUOTE] Bring back 30 fps tag and it won't be a problem. Zephyr is right, this is a steam shortcoming, not curator fault.

[QUOTE=krutomisi;48245995]the point is it is taking up an area that is intended for reviews, something that is inherently subjective that "objectively" hurts those games by taking away a prominent review location on a storefront[/QUOTE] Too bad, so sad. Sorry. Can't be arsed to give a fuck when the steam store is an absolute shit show. Regardless of the negative examples, they have gone out of their way to deliberately remove useful/relevant information. If some stuff gets caught in the crossfire, too damn bad. Steam is still in a state where I refuse to even look at it unless I am directly linked to something by someone else, or I already intend to make a specific purchase, and it's specifically because they absolutely refuse to provide information about the content they are selling. Tagging was supposed to allow us to filter out garbage from our results. Well they screwed that pooch about 2 days after launch with their tag blacklist. The tag system might as well not even exist at this point for all the good it does. It's barely more than a vague genre system at present.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48246026]Bring back 30 fps tag and it won't be a problem. Zephyr is right, this is a steam shortcoming, not curator fault.[/QUOTE] best case scenario I see is the group being hidden from the store unless you follow it cause honestly if steam will ban a tag I can see them banning a groups "abusing" their curator system [b]edit:[/b] [url=http://steamcommunity.com/groups/frameratepolice/discussions/0/535150948599894828/#c535150948601363744]actually turns out devs can block it off their storepages[/url]

[QUOTE=krutomisi;48246160]best case scenario I see is the group being hidden from the store unless you follow it cause honestly if steam will ban a tag I can see them banning a groups "abusing" their curator system[/QUOTE] Best case scenario is steam adds back 30 fps tag

[QUOTE=krutomisi;48246160]best case scenario I see is the group being hidden from the store unless you follow it cause honestly if steam will ban a tag I can see them banning a groups "abusing" their curator system [b]edit:[/b] [url=http://steamcommunity.com/groups/frameratepolice/discussions/0/535150948599894828/#c535150948601363744]actually turns out devs can block it off their storepages[/url][/QUOTE] Tell me in straight forward terms Why is it bad, that I the customer, am aware of the objective elements of this game, as to how it runs, how it plays, the speed and refresh rates and etc? Explain to me why THAT'S bad, because that's the issue.

Because knowing the downsides costs people money, whether or not it's the right thing. Also who was that Mervyn dyke that rushed through here? He work for UPS or something? No idea what his problem was.

Valve are so incredibly anti-consumer when it comes to moderating steam and the games on there.