[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48249991]no? if there is a risk of your fanbase being retarded and attacking people then no matter how small that risk is or no matter how small that group is
you actually fucking try to preemptively stop people from misconstruing your words and actions as support for attacking people
going "shit they are attacking people better edit everything" doesnt stop the fact that people actually attacked someone
[editline]20th July 2015[/editline]
thats like saying the person who doused the car in gasoline isnt responsible since someone else lit the match[/QUOTE]
Bad analogy because the intent of gasoline and matches is to burn something in which both would have been responsible.
TB's situation would be more like him announcing that he's leaving a bucket of gasoline with the intent to warn people, and someone tosses it around and sets it on fire.
As much as you want to tell yourself that TB is entirely responsible for what the bad part of his fanbase does with his information... It's just [U]not true.[/U] He's not parsing every post made on the subject, he's not sending people out to attacking 30fps games, he's completely powerless to keep some random morons from harassing developers.
He's done whatever he can to tell people it's an objective list, that people shouldn't look down on games for being locked to low frame rates, and he has for years condemned anyone harassing anyone, especially when they claim to be defending him doing it.
Lets say I watch Fight Club.
I then burn down a credit card company HQ.
Am I responsible for my actions?
Is Brad Pitt responsible?
Is David Fincher?
Is Chuck Palahniuk?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48250028]Lets say I watch Fight Club.
I then burn down a credit card company HQ.
Am I responsible for my actions?
Is Brad Pitt responsible?
Is David Fincher?
Is Chuck Palahniuk?[/QUOTE]
Brad Pitt because he has a sizable fanbase.
Who the fuck is responsible then Lua? Apply your logic.
Because guess what? I'm not responsible in YOUR world.
I have nothing left to say to you on this. You have a view that is categorically and intrinsically wrong.
That's it.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;48250034]Brad Pitt because he has a sizable fanbase.[/QUOTE]
Or it could be Fincher because he's a massive director who used to regularly make oscar nomminated films.
Or it could be Chuck because he's a PROLIFIC transgressional fiction.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250043]except the gas company is providing a completely innocent service, and in this case that would be steam since they are providing the curator system[/QUOTE]
So then what, is TB the gas station?
Like shit if you wanna stretch the metaphor go ahead, but the point remains that TB never intended people to use the information he hosted in any hostile way. But some assholes did, and he's done and is doing what he can to minimize the actions of those assholes.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250043]except the gas company is providing a completely innocent service, and in this case that would be steam since they are providing the curator system[/QUOTE]
Except you're saying it's entirely TB's fault that people do things if he doesn't word things perfectly.
Now, what this should tell to you is that because he needs perfection of his words on his end, the interpretation of the words is the issue. So, what that tells a reasonable person is that some people, the people specifically who are over reacting to these comments are the ones with the most egregious of misinterpretations. They are the ones who commit actions.
Now, answer a simple question friend.
If a misunderstanding leads people to actions that are not favourable, are those actions because of the misunderstanding, or are they because of the person who wrote the words in the first place?
Also, I'd like to ask how providing an objective list of games with framerate locks is not "innocent"
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250050]how is it wrong, like seriously, all you have said is "he isnt responsible"[/QUOTE]
Because he's not making anyone do anything. He's not causing any one to do anything. Anyone who takes action is doing so because they want to. They're motivation DUE to another person is not strictly cause for that persons actions. THEY STILL HOLD PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250050]how is it wrong, like seriously, all you have said is "he isnt responsible"[/QUOTE]
Well you've been arguing that TB is responsible for his fan's actions with shakey evidence at best, and even argued that people defending him are blinded by TB fanaticism with irrelevant or out of context quotes. So by default your argument isn't trustworthy or valid unless you can prove otherwise.
Literally NO philosopher from antiquity to modern age will agree with you that you are entirely devoid of the responsibilities of your actions because a media figure said something.
And that logic applies least of all in todays world.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250082]his fanbase has done this before, its not innocent at this point even if he just doesnt realize what parts of his fanbase does this shit[/QUOTE]
So his actions are tainted by the actions of the other?
SO clearly you have SOME grasp of how guilt works, but then you seem to be applying the guilt of those peoples actions to someone who DID NOT MAKE ANYONE DO ANYTHING.
You can repeat VERBATIM until you're fucking blue in the face, but you're wrong to say he's caused them, or made them to do this.
People on the internet are sporadic and some are hostile. And instantly blaming that hostility on a popular face is wrong and childish.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250071]ive been saying hes responsible for inciting it have you seriously not been reading past the first few lines that put rage in your heart[/QUOTE]
But we've been telling you he's done [I]literally nothing to incite it.[/I]
And you keep saying that him doing this when there's assholes in his fanbase that'll misconstrue it as hostile is enough to be considered "inciting"
Which is bullshit.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250094]who the fuck brought up philosophers, would i talk to the reincarnation of sigmund freud about this? no?
its literally a chain of action that starts with TB and ends with people attacking a game developer.[/QUOTE]
Freud was a psychologist.
A philosopher is someone who discusses the nature of morality and existance. This is a discussion of morality about cause and effect through peoples actions.
And you fucking think this isn't a discussion that has relevance?
You don't even grasp the basics of this conversation how am I supposed to take you seriously.
[editline]19th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250094]
its literally a chain of action that starts with TB and ends with people attacking a game developer.[/QUOTE]
No. It isn't.
There's a whole step there WHERE PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN FUCKING DECISIONS.
Stop robbing human beings of their fucking agency and acting like you're the only puppet without fucking strings.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250094]
its literally a chain of action that starts with TB and ends with people attacking a game developer.[/QUOTE]
Oh hey, it's that same line of logic people used to blame violent videogames for shootings. Just food for thought.
The fact that there are people that will take his information and use it maliciously despite his efforts to dissuade those people is not inciting them.
Inciting is handing making the curator and saying "Go harass people who makes games locked at 30fps"
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250120]because people have done it before, he knows they have done it before and yet he still fails to preemptively attempt to stop it in things that he does[/QUOTE]
BUT WHAT IS HE SUPPOSED TO DO? Personally visit and ask everyone who watches his video very politely to not be assholes?
How is he any more responsible for inciting anything than say, if a bunch of militant Obama supporters set out to shut down Kraft when he said he didn't like Vegemite?
Lua, if someone reads your posts, agrees, and then goes and murders TB, are you responsible?
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250125]freud studied philosophy too you know[/QUOTE]
Wow, you're a child to ignore it and go for that.
Stop trolling.
Deal with the argument at hand.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250142]if obama said "fuck vegemite" and then people went and rallied against vegemite in the name of obama because he directly said "fuck vegemite" then guess what, obama incited it and if he had worded it differently then it wouldnt have happened, and if it still did happen he wouldnt be at any fault[/QUOTE]
But he didn't say "fuck vegemite" If you read it correctly, he said he didn't like it. Subjectively. And he CERTAINLY made no allusions to wanting people to go and attack Kraft for it.
Lua, if someone told YOU TO DO SOMETHING
And then YOU DID IT
ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250156]
"are you really relating a review to murder"
look at what you are posting dude
[/QUOTE]
You related it to burning someone's car with gasoline.
I'd argue that's, admittedly not as extreme, but certainly extreme in it's own regard.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48250151]Lua, if someone told YOU TO DO SOMETHING
And then YOU DID IT
ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS[/QUOTE]
To be fair, both people would be to blame.
The problem is that the first person didn't tell him to do something, he just did it anyways.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48250151]Lua, if someone told YOU TO DO SOMETHING
And then YOU DID IT
ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS[/QUOTE]
Ooooh you slipped there.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250173]because its a relatively harmless action where most of the damage happens after the fact by someone else entirely
its barely related to murdering someone[/QUOTE]
It's still an out of proportion metaphor.
If you're gonna try and tell me that relating a steam curator to murder is CRAAAAAZY, but relating it to burning down someone's car is perfectly reasonable, then wow.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48250120]
if he had been more careful with how he worded the fuckin list at first this wouldnt have happened, or at least he wouldnt be at any fault here[/QUOTE]
Well he did. He used the curator system against valve for informing customers about features of games that you can see from user reviews. To remove bias, he says he wanted to keep it purely objective for the sole purpose of giving information.
Well now I know to plea that my actions were inspired by another persons if in ever in a criminal situation as lua has clearly proved that the only person who bears the guilt of your actions is the supposed motivator of those actions.
Thread is going nowhere. I want us all to be friends. I love you all, even you Lua.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
