[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48221529]But DMG, that makes the game bad no matter what and we should send those developers to hell![/QUOTE]
if it doesn't effect you that much and you don't care, why are you still here? It's pretty inane to just keep posting because you don't think (thing) matters.
programming in a game can totally make or break the game. If you're locking at FPS because of programming reasons its likely you don't really understand how to properly program your game.
This should be basic knowledge. You don't build a building on a bad foundation, just like you don't build a game on a bad one either. Console port or not, program the game properly.
[QUOTE=Eric95;48220005]Because it makes a big deal about something that very few people would notice anyway. It puts a negative light on things. Most people wouldn't have noticed if a game was in 30fps, but now because Totalbiscuit, the PC gaming authority marked it as a 30fps game it's automatically bad and they shouldn't buy it[/QUOTE]
I don't hate fps locks because TB said they're bad and neither did most people, I hate them because they're silly and ruin the experience for me, not because some oaf I never met said its bad.
I wish people would stop saying this. It's so asinine and childish. People don't worship TB as any "Authority", and for those who do, ignore them, they're tools. the 30 fps issue extends beyond what TB does, he's simply the most vocal about it. He's just a dude who has a good point.
and really, it puts a negative light on it? no wonder, that's the point.
[QUOTE=Eric95;48220005]very few people would notice anyway. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Eric95;47879337]I'm an artist, not a gamer
Meaning I care about how the artwork is presented[/QUOTE]
But you aren't a gamer so... how would you even know why people take it seriously?
Tying your game's logic to frame rate is fucking dumb and it should be avoided at all costs as a developer.
[url=https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/call-the-un-theres-a-steam-curator-on-the-loose]Totalbiscuit has some more to say about this whole deal.[/url]
Hopefully it'll shut some people up... But it won't...
[QUOTE=Velocet;48223212]Tying your game's logic to frame rate is fucking dumb and it should be avoided at all costs as a developer.[/QUOTE]
Except when what you already have is pushing the limits of the console hardware you were originally working with, and you can't afford the extra CPU overhead from Delta Time calculations.
Unfortunately, because of this the only unlocked framerate ports of former console exclusives tend to be games that didn't exactly push their hardware in the first place and could use Delta Time without problems, like Valkyria Chronicles (lol, it's a Dreamcast game that went into development hell so long it had to be brought to the PS3 instead), or ones with an unlocked framerate in the first place (FF13... Not like it could ever get above 30FPS on PS3 anyway)
Also a lot of stuff like tying things to framerate is part of the mantra of Bullet Hell game development to ensure that everything is frame-perfect, as the games are usually hard enough without worry about dropped frames. I mean though, it's usually an artifact of a lot of these games being designed for a very specific set of hardware with very specific limitations in the first place.
Oh and before I forget... Deus Ex, the "Best PC Game of All Time" according to TotalBiscuit himself... Well...
Yeah, everything in it is tied to framerate, and above 60FPS the game goes into superspeed and needs to be locked down to make sure the game doesn't break itself.
[QUOTE=kilerabv;48220276] C)Why do people feel the need to post those two specific things as some ultimate trump card when TB is mentioned. It has nothing to do on the subject and all you're accomplishing is looking like a jackass.[/QUOTE]
Because they clearly hate them for some other, more stupid reason, and that's all they can find to justify it.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;48223477]Because they clearly hate them for some other, more stupid reason, and that's all they can find to justify it.[/QUOTE]
The lengths people go to to justify hating well-known personalities on the internet is mind-boggling.
I just don't get it.
Hahaha what a fucking shitshow this thread is, who would've thought such a heated discussion would spring from people claiming they don't care yet are incredibly bothered by the fact that you can now easily find out whether or not a game is FPS locked.
Just for the record, once I got a decent gaming PC I got so used to 60 fps that nowadays I'd rather run a game on lowest settings at 1024*768 rather than settle with <50. Can't even imagine playing Crysis in 20fps like I used to.
[QUOTE=Eric95;48220005]Because it makes a big deal about something that very few people would notice anyway. It puts a negative light on things. Most people wouldn't have noticed if a game was in 30fps, but now because Totalbiscuit, the PC gaming authority marked it as a 30fps game it's automatically bad and they shouldn't buy it[/QUOTE]
I sort of doubt that most people who don't care about framerate now will suddenly start caring because some guy on YouTube "told them to". And even if they did, why would that be a problem? 30FPS locks are stupid, and there are literally no drawbacks to removing them. People who enjoy 30FPS can still do so (why not just add an option to lock it for people with non-powerful systems who wants a stable framerate?), while people with powerful machines can enjoy it properly as well.
Why would that be a bad thing?
You've previously also said that resolutions and an adjustable FoV is pointless, that people who get motionsick from a low FoV don't actually exist, and that people who care about such things are "entitled nerds".
I know that you're part of an indie game development team, and I don't mean to be rude, but when your basic argument is "it shouldn't be that way because it makes things harder for me", it makes it sound like you're not really passionate about what you do, and you just want to get paid as much as possible while also putting as little effort as possible into it.
If you manage to release some products, and your mentality regarding customers saying things like "maybe you should work on X a bit more because it currently runs quite poorly" is going to basically be "yeah or maybe you should shut the fuck up and stop being such an entitled nerd", your little studio won't survive for very long.
I wonder if people would get this pissed off if it had been made/ promoted by anybody other than TotalBiscuit? I understand that sometimes he can act like a bit of an arse (although he seems to have become a lot more sensible over the last few years), but just because you might not like him doesn't mean you to have to disagree with anything and everything he does.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;48220285][url]http://30vs60.com/[/url]
How can you even say this "most people wouldn't have noticed" shit.
I INSTANTLY notice 60 fps everywhere.[/QUOTE]
far better test
[url]http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates[/url] and [url]http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-marquee[/url] and and [url]http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-text[/url]
the site you posted doesn't know if there will be issues displaying 60 fps after all, this one makes it instantly obvious
[QUOTE=Killuah;48219977]Hello I'm playing Witcher 3 @ around 17 fps
[editline]16th July 2015[/editline]
And I really can't afford new hardware and I imagine to everyon who is not as rich or well off or ready to spend the money of two awesome vacations on hardware this debate sounds just as alien as it does to me.[/QUOTE]
sent to low spec's or hold of from playing when get a new rig hell I still have yet to play the first one ( my pc can play it just having gotten round to playing it. )
[QUOTE=Eric95;48219966]Because it hurts developers
Also if you play video games so much that it bothers you if a game is at 30fps instead of 60fps then you probably need to find some new hobbies[/QUOTE]
if you complain non stop about the potential customers of your field of work
you may need a new field of work
[img]http://jesusfuck.me/di/0B0K/13344554.png[/img]
I wonder if this is a coincidence. I don't remember seeing people specifically complaining about games not being at 60 FPS like this on the front pages of stores, and it being almost their entire argument.
Game is Worms World Party Remastered.
tbh I've found those plenty of times by digging through steam reviews :v: very prevalent in japanese indie games
[QUOTE=Keychain;48224605][img]http://jesusfuck.me/di/0B0K/13344554.png[/img]
I wonder if this is a coincidence. I don't remember seeing people specifically complaining about games not being at 60 FPS like this on the front pages of stores, and it being almost their entire argument.
Game is Worms World Party Remastered.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Imagine taking the perfect online gaming experience and one of the most popular Worms games ever made, adding a touch of Steam achievements, leaderboards, cloud saves, full controller support; a little sprinkle of [B]1080p / 60FPS[/B], all rounded off with enhanced weapon sounds effects and an improved frontend. And you have Worms World Party Remastered.[/QUOTE]
It's almost as if they were told it would be 1080/60.
Also it is a 14 year old game (it is just WWP with Steam/controller support) there is no reason for it running under 60 on low end computers let alone stronger PCs.
[QUOTE=Keychain;48224605][img]http://jesusfuck.me/di/0B0K/13344554.png[/img]
I wonder if this is a coincidence. I don't remember seeing people specifically complaining about games not being at 60 FPS like this on the front pages of stores, and it being almost their entire argument.
Game is Worms World Party Remastered.[/QUOTE]
Nice work nitpicking those important review s to prove some point
[editline]16th July 2015[/editline]
I hated 30 fps before TB said it was cool to
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;48223762]If you manage to release some products, and your mentality regarding customers saying things like "maybe you should work on X a bit more because it currently runs quite poorly" is going to basically be "yeah or maybe you should shut the fuck up and stop being such an entitled nerd", your little studio won't survive for very long.[/QUOTE]
My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" because people who notice that kind of stuff probably aren't that cool in real life anyway. They probably go to comic con, use a modded android phone and wear socks and sandals. I make games for cool people who wear sneakers and sunglasses and use iphones and drink lattes and only play games every once in a while
People who play games so much that they notice that kind of stuff isn't the audience I want. I want the chill fun nintendo audience
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;48223762]I know that you're part of an indie game development team, and I don't mean to be rude, but when your basic argument is "it shouldn't be that way because it makes things harder for me", it makes it sound like you're not really passionate about what you do, and you just want to get paid as much as possible while also putting as little effort as possible into it.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather put all the effort into the game design and art stuff and then let it run however it runs. I'm passionate about design, art, and music, not programming and technical stuff. That doesn't mean I'd put less effort into it, just distribute it differently. And that kind of shit shouldn't be a dealbreaker for games is what I mean. Not every game needs maximum smoothness or responsiveness, sometimes the disconnection and lack of immersion can add to the aesthetic depending on what you're going for. I'd love to design a game with strategic FPS drops to simulate bad hardware, for example, but because people like Totalbiscuit propagate framerates as the most important part of a game, even over gameplay or aesthetics, an artistic choice like that would probably just get a bad response no matter how cool it is.
And of course I can notice the difference between 60fps and 30fps side by side, pretty much everyone can, but what I'm saying is that most people don't care about framerates at all and won't give a shit or notice if a game runs at 30fps because they don't actively look for that kind of thing. But because Totalbiscuit the PC gaming god is telling them to not buy the game they won't. And that's a bad thing.
[QUOTE=Eric95;48225780]My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" because people who notice that kind of stuff probably aren't that cool in real life anyway. [/QUOTE]
Holy shit you are literally the worst kind of person to be making games.
I've not played any of the SUPER modern games recently but I find 60fps to be most unpleasant simply because I've been playing at 120fps for a while and going back down is a really noticeable shift in quality. For about ten minutes, then I forget about it and carry on playing.
30fps is a bit juddery for me and I always find myself instinctively hitting escape to try and drop settings, so I'm glad there's a bit of a movement to try and stop frame rate caps. Games should be able to run at any frame rate (within reason) to keep everyone happy. You should just be able to set what you want your max frame rate to be and let it be.
[QUOTE=Eric95;48225780]My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" because people who notice that kind of stuff probably aren't that cool in real life anyway.[/QUOTE]
Eric95's list of advice on how to make friends:
1) Insult everyone for no reason
[QUOTE=Eric95;48225780]My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" because people who notice that kind of stuff probably aren't that cool in real life anyway. They probably go to comic con, use a modded android phone and wear socks and sandals. I make games for cool people who wear sneakers and sunglasses and use iphones and drink lattes and only play games every once in a while
People who play games so much that they notice that kind of stuff isn't the audience I want. I want the chill fun nintendo audience[/quote]
Your logic:
'30FPS makes me nauseous.'
Here is an example of how you can tell so much about a person from just a single sentence. This person is quite obviously a lame nerd who goes to comic con, uses a modded android phone and wears socks and sandals.
(seriously what was the point of that paragraph dude, it just sounds like you're trolling cause you literally wrote nothing relevant there)
[quote]I'd rather put all the effort into the game design and art stuff and then let it however like it runs. I'm passionate about design, art, and music, not programming and technical stuff. That doesn't mean I'd put less effort into it, just distribute it differently. And that kind of shit shouldn't be a dealbreaker for games is what I mean. Not every game needs maximum smoothness or responsiveness, sometimes the disconnection and lack of immersion can add to the aesthetic depending on what you're going for. I'd love to design a game with strategic FPS drops to simulate bad hardware, for example, but because people like Totalbiscuit propagate framerates as the most important part of a game, even over gameplay or aesthetics, an artistic choice like that would probably just get a bad response no matter how cool it is.[/quote]
Your logic:
TotalBiscuit says that he can't deal with low FOV nor games locked at 30fps, despite how good they are not only because of the visual difference but also because it directly affects input response, performance and gameplay and makes him nauseous. This means that according to him fov sliders and framerates are the most important part of a game, not just a requirement by preference.
[quote]And of course I can notice the difference between 60fps and 30fps side by side, pretty much everyone can, but what I'm saying is that most people don't care about framerates at all and won't give a shit or notice if a game runs at 30fps because they don't actively look for that kind of thing. But because Totalbiscuit the PC gaming god is telling them to not buy the game they won't. And that's a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
And at last:
'This game is locked at 30fps'
The person here is obviously telling you to not buy a game, and because you are an unintelligent person who can't decide for yourself you will indeed not buy the game.
I hope- really hope- that as long as Eric95 has this shitty attitude of his, that he gets laughed out of the industry. That if by some godforsaken stroke of unholy luck he manages to get into a spotlight and immediately has some Phil Fish level breakdown and ruins himself in front of everyone.
I'm not saying this to be some internet meanie, I genuinely hope this will happen, because the last thing we need is people like him making games.
[QUOTE=Skyward;48226051]I hope- really hope- that Eric95 gets laughed out of the industry. That if by some godforsaken stroke of unholy luck he manages to get into a spotlight and immediately has some Phil Fish level breakdown and ruins himself in front of everyone.
I'm not saying this to be some internet meanie, I genuinely hope this will happen, because the last thing we need is people like him making games.[/QUOTE]
I know it's in bad taste to be kinda mean but Erics posts remind me so much of the whole 'We justify 30fps by claiming it's more cinematic' thing.
[QUOTE=Skyward;48226051]I hope- really hope- that as long as Eric95 has this shitty attitude of his, that he gets laughed out of the industry. That if by some godforsaken stroke of unholy luck he manages to get into a spotlight and immediately has some Phil Fish level breakdown and ruins himself in front of everyone.
I'm not saying this to be some internet meanie, I genuinely hope this will happen, because the last thing we need is people like him making games.[/QUOTE]
He's hardly part of the industry.
I'm still not sure how it makes sense for him to call people nerds, then proceed to make anime as shit styled games and animations. :v:
[QUOTE=paul simon;48226075]He's hardly part of the industry.
I'm still not sure how it makes sense for him to call people nerds, then proceed to make anime as shit styled games and animations. :v:[/QUOTE]
I guess by industry I just mean making games period.
[QUOTE=Eric95;48225780]My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" because people who notice that kind of stuff probably aren't that cool in real life anyway. They probably go to comic con, use a modded android phone and wear socks and sandals. I make games for cool people who wear sneakers and sunglasses and use iphones and drink lattes and only play games every once in a while
People who play games so much that they notice that kind of stuff isn't the audience I want. I want the chill fun nintendo audience
[/QUOTE]
Holy shit.
Eric's target audience;
People who won't complain about anything
[QUOTE=Eric95;48225780]My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" because people who notice that kind of stuff probably aren't that cool in real life anyway. They probably go to comic con, use a modded android phone and wear socks and sandals. I make games for cool people who wear sneakers and sunglasses and use iphones and drink lattes and only play games every once in a while
People who play games so much that they notice that kind of stuff isn't the audience I want. I want the chill fun nintendo audience
[/QUOTE]
Sorry mate, but why the hell are you insulting the majority of your consumers? Isn't that kinda, you know, detrimental to the sales of your hypothetical games?
[QUOTE=J!NX;48225716]Nice work nitpicking those important review s to prove some point
[editline]16th July 2015[/editline]
I hated 30 fps before TB said it was cool to[/QUOTE]
Can you chill? I was just asking if it was a coincidence. I'm completely on TB's side here. I wasn't trying to prove any point.
[QUOTE=Skyward;48226051]I hope- really hope- that as long as Eric95 has this shitty attitude of his, that he gets laughed out of the industry. That if by some godforsaken stroke of unholy luck he manages to get into a spotlight and immediately has some Phil Fish level breakdown and ruins himself in front of everyone.
I'm not saying this to be some internet meanie, I genuinely hope this will happen, because the last thing we need is people like him making games.[/QUOTE]
Wishing that somebody fails in their career just because they don't have the same priorities as you is pretty evil dude. If I succeed in games then that'll mean I'm right, and if I don't succeed that means I'm wrong. But you shouldn't hope that I fail just because I like to prioritize aesthetics over performance, that's just messed up
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;48226068]I know it's in bad taste to be kinda mean but Erics posts remind me so much of the whole 'We justify 30fps by claiming it's more cinematic' thing.[/QUOTE]
It really is valid sometimes though. When I used to make short films I had a camera that would only film in 30 or 60 fps so I'd film in 60 and divide it down to 24fps to get the film look
[QUOTE=paul simon;48226075]I'm still not sure how it makes sense for him to call people nerds, then proceed to make anime as shit styled games and animations. :v:[/QUOTE]
We make games in that style because the girl who is my creative partner draws in that style. And I like the aesthetic mayne
The animation stuff is a parody of anime and not in my regular drawing style so I fail to see how that matters at all
I'm just talking about framerates and preferences and shit here, I don't know why you guys have to resort to personal attacks
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