Totalbiscuit - The Framerate Police - General

[QUOTE=Eric95;48226334]...And my point was that developers don't necessarily want or have to pander to the audience that cares about that My point there is that a game doesn't necessarily have to exceed 30 (or 25) fps to be fun and responsive[/QUOTE] Developers don't have to pander, they don't have to do anything [B]at all[/B]. Either steam has to allow 30fps as a tag or as what is currently happening, somebody who cares makes a curator list for [B]people who care[/B]. You don't get to dictate what people experience as fun, the fact is that there are people who will find something fun and others who won't and there's nothing that will change that. Do you think the reason we don't want to play 30FPS games is because we're trying to make some kind of a point? That we're actually fine with playing 30FPS games and have some agenda? TotalBiscuit is offering a way for ppl who dont want to play fps locked games know if a game is fps locked. Even if we'd obviously like games to not be fps locked, we're not forcing them to stop doing it.

Haha if you find playing games at 30fps completely unplayable then I have no fucking idea what is wrong with you. I can't help but feel that this is just another "bandwagon" kind of thing where everyone just goes with popular opinion and defends it blindly.

[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;48227005]Haha if you find playing games at 30fps completely unplayable then I have no fucking idea what is wrong with you. I can't help but feel that this is just another "bandwagon" kind of thing where everyone just goes with popular opinion and defends it blindly.[/QUOTE] Unplayable is a bit of a stretch, but fuck off with that second bit. It's not at all hard to see the different between 60 and 30, and 60 is undeniably better looking. You don't need to be on a bandwagon to see it.

[QUOTE=Eric95;48226334] My point there is that a game doesn't necessarily have to exceed 30 (or 25) fps to be fun and responsive[/QUOTE] This is entirely subjective though. Why are you so hateful towards people that care about 60 fps not being optional for completely arbitrary reasons? [QUOTE=Eric95;48226334]...I just figured it'd be interesting to discuss it from a different perspective.[/QUOTE] You were only pretending?

I stopped when he said movies run at 24 It's actually 23.976 :q:

[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;48227005]Haha if you find playing games at 30fps completely unplayable then I have no fucking idea what is wrong with you. I can't help but feel that this is just another "bandwagon" kind of thing where everyone just goes with popular opinion and defends it blindly.[/QUOTE] No it's not unplayable, it's just that there are tons of games that are not locked at 30fps that I could be buying and playing instead and have a much better time with. This isn't a bandwagon where everyone defends popular opinion blindly because the point isn't to defend an opinion, the point is that TB made a list and now some people are butthurt about it.

This entire issue can be understood very easily if we compare it to a more extreme hypothetical situation. Real ssue: (Any) game comes out on steam but is locked at 30fps. Some people don't want to play the game unless it's in 60fps. Other people don't care and play the game anyway. So there is a tag or curator list that lets you know about games that don't support framerates above 30. Hypothetical issue: Racing game comes out on steam but has no wheel support. Some people don't want to play the game unless they can use their wheel. Other people don't care and play the game anyway. So there is a tag or curator list to let you know about racing games that dont have wheel support. 'But MrJazzy, there is a huge difference there because wheel support is much more important for a racing game than 30fps is for (any) game!' Wether that's true or not doesn't matter. This does not change the fact that some people don't want to play games locked at 30fps, nor does it justify the opinion of people who are not affeced by TBs curator list that this curator list should not exist.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;48227136]This does not change the fact that some people don't want to play games locked at 30fps, nor does it justify the opinion of people who are not affeced by TBs curator list that this curator list should not exist.[/QUOTE] But if i don't like playing games at 30fps I must wear socks and sandals and drink lukewarm coffe. How can i live with that?

you know the whole thing that i dont get is why devs think i want a cinematic experience? if i wanted that, id go to the cinema. if im playing games, i want a gaming experience. and i built my computer to run games at 144 fps. how entitled do you have to be to tell me what i can and cant do on [B]my[/B] computer? when a dev pays for and gives me a computer specifically to play his/her game on, then ill let him/her tell me how to run it. but as long as i paid for it myself, thats my decision.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;48220009]He tries to play games at 120FPS when possible. When you go from 120FPS to a quarter of that it's probably pretty jarring.[/QUOTE] If I'm playing a game, especially a very fast reflex-based one, a frame drop of even ten is enough to throw me off tremendously to the point where all my reflexes go out the window. [editline]17th July 2015[/editline] The problem for me isn't necessarily that a game runs at 60 fps, it's that some games don't give you the choice to play at 60 fps. Some games I'm totally fine with playing at 30FPS. If it's something like Skyrim or something I'd rather put a whole bunch of mods on and play at 30 FPS than at 60 because it's not that fast a game anyway and I'd rather have the prettier visuals over more responsive gameplay. Problem is when a game comes out and says "Okay, you're going to play in 30, and you don't have a say in the matter." Some people aren't like me and really can't stand playing at 30 (which is understandable, even when playing a game like Skyrim I can absolutely feel the difference). So I think it's fair for customers to be informed of that. It's like if a game was force locked to 720p; some people can deal with that, but others rather wouldn't. And, of course, being able to go into the options menu and select 1080p or 720p is even better. [editline]17th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Eric95;48220005]Because it makes a big deal about something that very few people would notice anyway. It puts a negative light on things. Most people wouldn't have noticed if a game was in 30fps, but now because Totalbiscuit, the PC gaming authority marked it as a 30fps game it's automatically bad and they shouldn't buy it[/QUOTE] What if a company made a product that contained peanuts? Should customers with peanut allergies be warned that it contains peanuts? No, because that's harming the manufacturer of the product. Very few people have peanut allergies to begin with so it doesn't really matter, most people wouldn't be affected. Obviously this is an extreme example; 30fps gaming isn't a potentially life-threatening condition. The point, however, is that consumers want to be informed of their purchases. They have specific wants and needs, and when they spend their hard-earned money they want to be assured that they get what they want. This is called being "responsible". What you're saying is that it's [i]unfair that consumers have the ability and autonomy to conduct research before purchasing a product.[/i] The corollary is that it's unfair that people put out resources to aid in this research. Tell me; do you boycott Consumer Reports magazine? What about America's Test Kitchen? The consumer always comes before the company. Consumers should not just say "Well, this car is an automatic and I want a manual, but I'll buy it anyway because I'm afraid of hurting the car company and I pity them." That is not the way the economy works. Consumers buy what they want. And if a company produces a product that nobody wants then tough shit, we don't just buy what we don't want because we feel bad. Also, I like how you tried to argue that this hurts developers by claiming that so few people care that it doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=Shotz;48215274]I dont know whats up with me, but I also just can't handle 30fps, I dont know how I was able to play GTA V back on 360 fine, but for some reason I just handle anything sub 60, it's fucked[/QUOTE] You T.V. probably has frame smoothing software.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48224605][img]http://jesusfuck.me/di/0B0K/13344554.png[/img] I wonder if this is a coincidence. I don't remember seeing people specifically complaining about games not being at 60 FPS like this on the front pages of stores, and it being almost their entire argument. Game is Worms World Party Remastered.[/QUOTE] (just wanted to point out that you happened to pick my review and my friend's one) I was expecting this game to be fully modernised for PCs of today since the old version's menu and gameplay are in low resolution, the controls are slightly awkward, and online play was sometimes hard to get working (I feel as if that's okay considering the game came out in 2001 before Steam.) They promised us an improved frontend and 1080p/60FPS which as a customer I can assume it was for the entire game, but upon purchase and launch I found that the main menu ran at 640x480 which is [I]exactly the same as the original release[/I] of the game, and the mouse movement in menus was far too sensitive with no way to change it at all. I didn't see a keyboard rebinding menu at all in the options, only a button that opens a screen displaying gamepad controls. The keyboard controls were awkward because I had to use the jump button before I could even move at all, and the keybinds were not displayed for me anywhere. I didn't write this review because I watched the Framerate Police video, I wrote it because the game's quality is not what we were promised.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;48227601]you know the whole thing that i dont get is why devs think i want a cinematic experience? if i wanted that, id go to the cinema. if im playing games, i want a gaming experience. and i built my computer to run games at 144 fps. how entitled do you have to be to tell me what i can and cant do on [B]my[/B] computer? when a dev pays for and gives me a computer specifically to play his/her game on, then ill let him/her tell me how to run it. but as long as i paid for it myself, thats my decision.[/QUOTE] I think that's extra dumb, because the whole problem people some people have with 60 fps in movies generally only applies to live action anyway.

[QUOTE=Eric95;48225780]My plan is to make really fun and pretty games with really good gameplay. And then if people complain about boring shit like FOV sliders or framerates i'll just go "lol nerd" [...] I'd rather put all the effort into the game design and art stuff and then let it run however it runs. I'm passionate about design, art, and music, not programming and technical stuff. That doesn't mean I'd put less effort into it, just distribute it differently. And that kind of shit shouldn't be a dealbreaker for games is what I mean. Not every game needs maximum smoothness or responsiveness, sometimes the disconnection and lack of immersion can add to the aesthetic depending on what you're going for. I'd love to design a game with strategic FPS drops to simulate bad hardware, for example, but because people like Totalbiscuit propagate framerates as the most important part of a game, even over gameplay or aesthetics, an artistic choice like that would probably just get a bad response no matter how cool it is. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Eric95;48226285]Wow Personally, I think the focus on stuff like frame rate and such is the kind of thing that really needs to die in the games industry. I think it forces developers to focus on shit that doesn't matter, and compromise the quality of their games because of it.[/QUOTE] I work with videogames for over 6 years now(3 as a freelancer) and what you're saying is a bit... shocking and ignorant. I am an artist and gamedesigner myself and I rarely code or have any idea about most of the coding stuff. But I always have to keep in mind my restrictions and work as closely together with the programming department to get a game out that doesn't only looks good but also runs smooth. This includes me removing pretty level objects that I loved and placed because otherwise the gameplay becomes too confusing to reoptimizing the post effects or shaders applied on a model. It might not look as good as before but it runs A LOT better. Gameplaywise and Performancewise and I as artist do my part to get there. And yes, there is such thing as bad FPS as aesthetics... Luftrausers comes in mind, which froze for a split second if you got hit. But this is a very rare design decision and you can't crap all over the idea of having a smooth gameplay in general.

Eric, I'm going to spend 30 minutes creating a shitty Unity game that forces you to render it in 640x480 (fullscreen, of course) with 5 FPS, and with a 15 degree field of view. I also think this should become a standard. You disagree? Stop being such a nerd gosh BRB I'm off creating anime

Hello, can certain users stop spamming reports on posts that aren't breaking the rules? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;48228924]Hello, can certain users stop spamming reports on posts that aren't breaking the rules? Thanks.[/QUOTE] You're not my real dad, Swebby, you can't tell me what to do.

this is pretty terrible in some respects, they've highlighted the original tomb raider which im p.sure was for fucking DOS as being 30fps as if its a bad thing, i mean what the fuck would you expect its ancient, no need to get entitled about shit like that jesus.

also nuclear throne is on there, but the game isn't even noticeable barely at 30fps because its pixel graphics. TB needs to stop being a dickhead and saying every game at 30 fps is unplayable.

I just set all my options to max and pray for 50-60 fps

The list is not there to damn the games. It's there to inform the consumer if the games is locked at 30 fps. Keep in mind this curator wouldn't exist if Valve wasn't dumb enough to get rid of the 30FPS tag.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;48229695]also nuclear throne is on there, but the game isn't even noticeable barely at 30fps because its pixel graphics. TB needs to stop being a dickhead and saying every game at 30 fps is unplayable.[/QUOTE] Literally where does he say 30 FPS games are unplayable. He prefers it otherwise, and made a list for people with similar tastes

Holy shit. You both didn't watch the video and jumped in here with hate boners raging. This list is not "these games are shit" it's "these games are 30 fps and there's no other way to document this". It's really too funny to watch you people jump in with ignorant hate boners. Wait no it looks silly

[QUOTE=Marzipas;48229665]this is pretty terrible in some respects, they've highlighted the original tomb raider which im p.sure was for fucking DOS as being 30fps as if its a bad thing, i mean what the fuck would you expect its ancient, no need to get entitled about shit like that jesus.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=codemaster85;48229695]also nuclear throne is on there, but the game isn't even noticeable barely at 30fps because its pixel graphics. TB needs to stop being a dickhead and saying every game at 30 fps is unplayable.[/QUOTE] It's an objective list, it does not have any opinions. It lists everything with a 30fps cap, it doesn't care how old it is or if it has a good reason to. Why should it omit Tomb Raider or Nuclear Throne? That would make the list less trustworthy if it omits things on purpose. Again, it's an OBJECTIVE list. TB isn't saying every game at 30fps is objectively unplayable, he's simply saying that every 30fps game is objectively 30fps. Whether or not that means it's unplayable is up to you. TB just provides you with extra information about the game before you buy it, which you can choose to ignore or not. If you can't deal with simple little facts about games, then that's your issue.

[QUOTE=paul simon;48229758]It's an objective list, it does not have any opinions. It lists everything with a 30fps cap, it doesn't care how old it is or if it has a good reason to. Why should it omit Tomb Raider or Nuclear Throne? That would make the list less trustworthy if it omits things on purpose. Again, it's an OBJECTIVE list. TB isn't saying every game at 30fps is objectively unplayable, he's simply saying that every 30fps game is objectively 30fps. Whether or not that means it's unplayable is up to you. TB just provides you with extra information about the game before you buy it, which you can choose to ignore or not. If you can't deal with simple little facts about games, then that's your issue.[/QUOTE] two seperate issues, im not exactly saying the page is damning it (it really is, if you really think its not you're blind as shit when its run by mister "if its not 120 fps its completely unplayable on my 5x titan rig") TB is just acting like hes the savior or PC gaming again by making a pointless list you could just google in 5 seconds.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;48229780]TB is just acting like hes the savior or PC gaming again by making a pointless list you could just google in 5 seconds.[/QUOTE] Why have to google it in 5 seconds when you can just go straight to one list in 2 [quote]im not exactly saying the page is damning it (it really is[/quote] What the fuck are you on

How the fuck is it damning?

[QUOTE=codemaster85;48229780]two seperate issues, im not exactly saying the page is damning it (it really is, if you really think its not you're blind as shit when its run by mister "if its not 120 fps its completely unplayable on my 5x titan rig") TB is just acting like hes the savior or PC gaming again by making a pointless list you could just google in 5 seconds.[/QUOTE] No he's not. Did you watch the video? You're just angry about things for no reason. This is just like how Guru3D has a list of rendering resolutions for all games on PS3/360 etc. It's a comprehensive resource for finding out about specifications for a game that is not listed anywhere else. Your opinion about the list is irrelevant. It's an objective list that follows a strict formula. - Does the game have a 30fps or similar framerate lock? If yes, list it. - Does the game have a fix to this framerate lock? If yes, list it. - Is the game old? Is the 30fps lock justified for any reason? Is it a part of the artstyle? If yes, still list it[I] because it's an objective fucking list and it doesn't give a shit about anything other than the framerate lock.[/I]

I really don't understand how some people can take this as an insult. Did they not even watch the video, did they misunderstand everything, or is it just some childish "if I can't play it with more than 30FPS then nobody else should either!!!! >:((((" thing?

People sure love to get mad over something they claim does not affect them