[QUOTE=SoaringScout;42310817]Yeah people are told rape is bad but we're only taught that about violent rape, which is generally frowned upon by society anyways. But not once has a teacher ever lectured me on the concept of consent. Not once was I told in Health class that having sex with someone who is drunk while you aren't drunk is rape. They just use the phrase "taking advantage of" to sugar coat it, but it's not like they even gave us a good lecture about it anyways. Mostly just crazy people violently rape others, and that's frowned upon by society just like theft and cold-blooded murder, but the concept of consent isn't discussed nearly as much as it should be.[/QUOTE]
well, i suppose that's the difference between your education and mine, because i was taught, in middle school, at a rather early age, the difference between consenting sex and rape. the teachers quizzed us about situations which would be considered consensual and nonconsensual, and what is right and wrong.
[editline]26th September 2013[/editline]
but yes, certainly if children and young adults aren't being taught this, they should be; i don't think anybody is arguing that.
[QUOTE=OrkO;42310563]education will not stop sociopaths from being sociopaths. raise them however you like, i guarantee that will have very little effect on their tendency to commit crimes[/QUOTE]
sociopathy is actually quite rare and has nothing to do with crime as most sociopaths do not commit crimes
education and poverty have direct links to crime
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=OrkO;42310687]
the best parents in the world could still raise a sociopath.[/QUOTE]
you cant "raise" a sociopath
[QUOTE=thisispain;42310875]sociopathy is actually quite rare and has nothing to do with crime as most sociopaths do not commit crimes
education and poverty have direct links to crime
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
you cant "raise" a sociopath[/QUOTE]
He's saying that loving families can still produce a sociopath.
yeah because sociopathy is a mental illness, with links to genetics
it has little to do with rape, the vast majority of rape isnt committed by sociopaths
Do we teach women how to prevent being raped, or help teach society that rape is bad?
I don't understand why it's an argument. You need both. Though, we need a lot more of both. Only when the taboo of rape is ingrained in the minds of our society, it will be be cut down over time. It will never disappear, but we can reduce it's happening significantly.
[QUOTE=Pvt Anderson;42311155]Do we teach women how to prevent being raped, or help teach society that rape is bad?
I don't understand why it's an argument. You need both. Though, we need a lot more of both. Only when the taboo of rape is ingrained in the minds of our society, it will be be cut down over time. It will never disappear, but we can reduce it's happening significantly.[/QUOTE]
We don't need to teach people not to rape any more than we already do, because we can't teach people not to rape more than we already do. Rape is already easily the most vilified crime in the US, how can we teach people to not rape any more than that?
who the hell said you shouldnt do both
its just minimizing the fact that rape is a crime youre a victim of that's a problem
most rapes dont happen like this:
"wearing scanty clothing certainly paints you as a target and increases your chances. "
most rapes are committed by people who know the victim. changing the conversation to "scantly clothing" is cool, but its completely irrelevant to most rape victims
[QUOTE=thisispain;42311173]who the hell said you shouldnt do both
its just minimizing the fact that rape is a crime youre a victim of that's a problem
most rapes dont happen like this:
"wearing scanty clothing certainly paints you as a target and increases your chances. "
most rapes are committed by people who know the victim. changing the conversation to "scantly clothing" is cool, but its completely irrelevant to most rape victims[/QUOTE]
Nobody here is changing any conversation.
And watch the entire video before talking about clothes, c'mon, really now, if you're going to talk about the video you need to know everything in it.
While in a utopia everyone could wear whatever they want and not receive negative feedback, I can see this going a lot of ways..
For starters, if someone wears a fursuit or MLP clothing they're labeled as a freak or a manchild and they're ridiculed for it.
If a guy wears girls' clothing he's called a fruit, a faggot, unmasculine, ridiculed too.
If a girl wears guys' clothing it's okay.
But a girl wearing skimpy clothing increases the risk of being raped?
To me the safest bet seems to be everyone wearing what we today call "guys' clothes", although I'd prefer to just call them normal clothes. You know, pants, jackets, t-shirts, normal clothes that aren't meant to be provocative or arousing or to show cleavage or how muscular a guy is, no. They're meant to be fucking functional clothes and that is why I say they're the safest bet.
People who wear fursuits wear them fully acknowledging the stigma that comes with it. They know people will laugh at them or point at them. Women who wear shit like minijeans, miniskirts, really low-cut shirts and so forth should also acknowledge the risk that comes along with this. It might not be right but neither is democracy. Politeia would be right but too bad we can't make it work. Let's make the next best thing work then, and after THAT we should look at the best option.
I mean you can't aim for the top score straight away, there's gotta be some checkpoints along the way. You know? I know in the previous rape-related video thread I said things that people might find contradictory with this post and I still stand by what I said back then. What I said was basically was that rape can never be excused by any kind of reason, there is nothing a human being can do to justify it. This is still true to me, but let's not forget that some people just don't care about this. Some people are so fucked up they really do see attractive girls as just objects to stick their dick into.
For these individuals precautions should be taken. It doesn't mean everyone should be seen as rapists as long as they're men, that'd be like saying all black people are criminals and arabians are all terrorists. Things such as wearing reasonable clothing normally and society not giving strong women stigma for being just strong would be a great start. At least, IMO it would be.
I mean, I don't go around with my dick hanging out and my ass half-bare. The male chest is not as much of an erotic area as the female chest, so obviously if they want to not dress skimpy they need a bit more clothing than us. Islam went all the way ham with this with niqabs and burkas, but that's also missing the point, The golden middle road would be the best, to me that would be very similar to what we call male clothing today. Why not make it unisex clothing, I don't see anything stopping us.
Second, the stigma of being physically capable as a woman. Nowadays it's MUCH less apparent than before, but there is still that social model that women ask men for help in physical work. How about both sexes just fucking work out because both of them obviously have been blessed with these amazing things called muscles. How about you fucking take care of them and make them flourish? Your sex doesn't matter much as long as you have the will, nobody is telling you to become a bodybuilder, just strong. What people count as strong varies, I know, but there is a large difference between a woman that exercises her muscles regularly and a woman that only cares about how skinny she looks and how smooth her skin is. I'm not saying you can't be all those, but the differerence between these is there.
And third, this video relies on biotruths. While it has good points, it also has bad points. It's being realistic in the sense that there will always be douchebags that have had something throwing their mental growth off the right path and twisted their views so that they resort to rape. But it's also being judgemental in making the "how about nobody rapes" idea retarded. It's a fantastic ideal state to strive towards, even if we aren't going to reach it in the near future. We can take compensating steps in between like what I mentioned above, it's not just the starting square and finish line.
How long have I rambled?
Fuck, I should've just vlogged this or something if I had a camera to do it with. Would probably be more viewer-friendly than this. Anyway I hope you people get what I'm trying to say here.
[QUOTE=katbug;42311347]Nobody here is changing any conversation.
And watch the entire video before talking about clothes, c'mon, really now, if you're going to talk about the video you need to know everything in it.[/QUOTE]
dont care about the video, i was responding to a post someone made
Why can't we argue about our opinions on the subject in a respectable, understanding manner knowing that this is a complex, multi layered issue?
[QUOTE=minilandstan;42311387]Why can't we argue about our opinions on the subject in a respectable, understanding manner knowing that this is a complex, multi layered issue?[/QUOTE]
i agree this is an issue that can only be truly dealt with using ancient internet memes
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42311430]I hate the "teach men not to rape" argument because it essentially boils down to sexism against women. Isn't it more or less saying that I need men to choose not to rape me and I am utterly incapable of protecting myself?[/QUOTE]
???
does this apply to stealing and genocide
that person who just got burglarized had a nice house, they obviously deserved it.
that store that got robbed had expensive items in it, they deserved it!
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42311502]Yes. That's why we lock our doors instead of putting signs up that say "please don't steal my stuff thanks."
Risk minimization is not victim blaming.[/QUOTE]
yea victim blaming is victim blaming and saying a rape victim should have worn different clothes to avoid a rape is victim blaming.
[editline]26th September 2013[/editline]
it has nothing to do with actual risk minimization(don't walk down dark alleyways alone sort of shit), and has everything to do with shitty people saying other people deserved to have something bad happen to them.
that doesnt make any sense
someone who wants to steal will steal, if you lock your doors he'll open them, or steal from someone else
we should instead change the circumstances that cause people to steal
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
and once again the idea that most rapes are committed against "scantly clad" women in the "wrong place" is false. most rapes are committed against women by people they know, so to divert the conversation from that is fruitless.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42311173]who the hell said you shouldnt do both
its just minimizing the fact that rape is a crime youre a victim of that's a problem
most rapes dont happen like this:
"wearing scanty clothing certainly paints you as a target and increases your chances. "
most rapes are committed by people who know the victim. changing the conversation to "scantly clothing" is cool, but its completely irrelevant to most rape victims[/QUOTE]
if you really don't think that wearing enticing clothing has zero effect on the prevalence of rape you're deluding yourself
don't you think that, in a situation where the rapist knew the victim (as occurs in the majority of rapes) that the possibility of a rape would be much higher if the rapist were sexually enticed by the appearance of the victim? then you have sexual desire and motivation combined with this feeling that it's ok because the rapist knows the victim or is in a close relationship with them
[QUOTE=thisispain;42310875]sociopathy is actually quite rare and has nothing to do with crime as most sociopaths do not commit crimes
education and poverty have direct links to crime
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
you cant "raise" a sociopath[/QUOTE]
actually sociopathy is an umbrella term encompassing many different disorders
[QUOTE=OrkO;42311556]if you really don't think that wearing enticing clothing has zero effect on the prevalence of rape you're deluding yourself [/QUOTE]
super convincing argument
you fail to understand the mentality of a rapist
your chance of getting raped has little to do with what clothing you wear, most women who get raped are dressed in normal everyday clothes
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42311560]When I was cornered by a rapist, I pulled out my gun and he ran. If I hadn't had my gun, he wouldn't have ran.
When my date tried to rape me, I pulled my gun and he ran. He was my friend for 5 fucking years, but the gun still worked and the rape was still prevented.
[B]It can be your responsibility to protect yourself and [U]simultaneously not your fault if you fail![/U][/B]
[U][I][B]
RESPONSIBILITY AND FAULT ARE UNRELATED.[/B][/I][/U]
[B][I][U]IT CAN BE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND NOT YOUR FAULT.[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE]
i have no interest in responsibility or fault
theres a lot of things we can do as a society to reduce rape that don't involve giving women guns
[QUOTE=thisispain;42311597]super convincing argument
you fail to understand the mentality of a rapist
your chance of getting raped has little to do with what clothing you wear, most women who get raped are dressed in normal everyday clothes[/QUOTE]
which are perverted! we should take a cue from some theocracies in the middle east and have women wear hijabs to stifle men's desires and make rape unthinkable!
[QUOTE=OrkO;42311574]actually sociopathy is an umbrella term encompassing many different disorders[/QUOTE]
the definition in the DSM is quite concrete
why does this always happen
nice video though, love his voice
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42311614]which are perverted! we should take a cue from some theocracies in the middle east and have women wear hijabs to stifle men's desires and make rape unthinkable![/QUOTE]
though quite flippant, this raises a good point
rape is more prominent in areas where women are less "sexually enticing" while societies with more freedoms have a lot less rape.
societal attitudes towards women matter 1000 times more than anything a woman would ever wear
[QUOTE=thisispain;42311597]super convincing argument
you fail to understand the mentality of a rapist
your chance of getting raped has little to do with what clothing you wear, most women who get raped are dressed in normal everyday clothes
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
i have no interest in responsibility or fault
theres a lot of things we can do as a society to reduce rape that don't involve giving women guns[/QUOTE]
what do you mean i fail to understand the mentality of a rapist? most rapists are not unstoppable raping machines that rape people constantly without cause, most of them are enticed for one reason or another. something functions as a trigger for the majority of rapes. most rapes happen because the rapist is close to the victim, and thus feels as though it is ok, but this isn't a [I]cause[/I], but merely a justification. the cause is some kind of trigger, such as increased sexual desire, which can definitely be caused by the appearance of the victim
This was a very good video. The guy seems to be extremely intelligent.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42311627]It sounds like you're arguing that women shouldn't defend themselves, which is pretty sick.[/QUOTE]
im not gonna even dignify this with a response
[QUOTE=thisispain;42311630]though quite flippant, this raises a good point
rape is more prominent in areas where women are less "sexually enticing" while societies with more freedoms have a lot less rape.
societal attitudes towards women matter 1000 times more than anything a woman would ever wear[/QUOTE]
i think that is kind of an irrelevant and obvious comparison, because societies wherein rapes occur more often don't view rape as harshly as the west generally does (wow who would have thought). however, once you view rape in a negative light and educate people in the fact that rape is bad and what constitutes a rape, etc. there isn't much more you can do to hammer the point in and prevent it via education. and yet it still occurs. which leads some people to believing that there may be more than just a single factor that contributes to the prevalence of rapes
[QUOTE=OrkO;42311665]i think that is kind of an irrelevant and obvious comparison, because societies wherein rapes occur more often don't view rape as harshly as the west generally does (wow who would have thought). however, once you view rape in a negative light and educate people in the fact that rape is bad and what constitutes a rape, etc. there isn't much more you can do to hammer the point in and prevent it via education. and yet it still occurs. which leads some people to believing that there may be more than just a single factor that contributes to the prevalence of rapes[/QUOTE]
he didn't say "societal attitudes towards rape", he said "societal attitudes towards women". when women are viewed as objects they end up being treated as objects.
[QUOTE=OrkO;42311644]what do you mean i fail to understand the mentality of a rapist?[/QUOTE]
i think its a very clear statement
[QUOTE=OrkO;42311644]most rapes happen because the rapist is close to the victim, and thus feels as though it is ok, but this isn't a [I]cause[/I], but merely a justification. the cause is some kind of trigger, such as increased sexual desire, which can definitely be caused by the appearance of the victim[/QUOTE]
i dont understand what a justification is and how it differs from the cause but the cause has nothing to do with "sexual desire" even historically, rape comes from social attitudes and conceptions towards women.
you can be sexually unattractive and still be just as likely to be raped.
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=OrkO;42311665]i think that is kind of an irrelevant and obvious comparison, because societies wherein rapes occur more often don't view rape as harshly as the west generally does [/QUOTE]
there are many societies where rape gets you a death sentence yet is far more prominent as a crime.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42311667]You're essentially saying that women shouldn't bother defending themselves because men are taught to rape and it won't stop until the social learning that causes rape ceases to exist.[/QUOTE]
i havent said anything like that and no-one who read my posts with even the slightest shred of reading comprehension would say i did
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