• TEACH THEM NOT TO RAPE!
    299 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42316028]You're not going to make assumptions about numbers? Aren't you doing it right now by assuming that number is 0? And you and BrickInHead are the only ones talking about numbers. The other side of the argument only said that rape isn't exclusive for males. And it isn't. Don't tell me you can't be coerced to have sex by a woman. The number of those cases is irrelevant to that statement.[/QUOTE] Where did I say the number was 0? I'm basing my argument off of the information we know. Which is that while female on male rape does occur it is so infrequent a problem that it's hard to consider it a trend. Obviously this does not mean it's a problem that shouldn't be addressed but what it does say is that rape might have drives involving a hate of women more so than just sexual attraction [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=discofex;42317007]Excpet in the U.S. the definition of rape was "carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will." Until the Jery Sandusky case at Penn State. [url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-06/fbi-rape-definition-adds-men/52398350/1[/url] So until 2011ish it was literally impossible for men to be raped.[/QUOTE] uhm that survey accounts for men being raped though? How could that info be gathered if it was impossible?
this guy's a retard and grossly oversimplifies the point so he can apply his dumbass reasoning
[QUOTE=Winters;42317039]Where did I say the number was 0? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Winters;42315726]I'm not goning to make assumptions about [B]numbers that dont exist[/B] or that we dont have acess to.[/QUOTE] ? [QUOTE=Winters;42317039]I'm basing my argument off of the information we know. Which is that while female on male rape does occur it is so infrequent a problem to be considered a trend.[/QUOTE] I don't understand. The argument you are opposing is that rape is not male exclusive yet you say "female on male rape does occur"? How do you disagree with someone yet say exactly what they are saying?
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42316510]This is only reports. You haven't considered the fact that men are less likely to report rapes by women, because it's considered emasculating. I'd imagine less than 1-2% of female-on-male rapes get reported. I'd imagine the ratio of female to male perpetrators is about 2:3 realistically in Western society. Maybe 1:3. Still not remotely insignificant.[/QUOTE] really? really? is that seriously what you think? 2:3? wow
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;42315381]wikipedia? sheesh obviously just talking out ur BUTT frikin TUMBLR FEMINIST[/QUOTE] I'm just saying to say something happens incredibly frequently, infrequently, or not at all and/or is committed mostly by [insert sex, gender, race, etc.] (especially in the case of crimes like rape) you have to cite statics and studies otherwise it seems like you pulling it out of thin air. It would be like me saying "60% of rape accusations made by women are false!" but without unbiased, valid, and objective studies and statistics I would be completely talking out of my ass (obviously false rape accusations are incredibly rare). So no I'm not pulling the "lol Tumblr/SRS feminist! :rolleyes:" defense (because that's the same as the "lol Neckbeard/Fedora MRA" defense just on the other side of things), sorry if it came across as that way. [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Generic Monk;42317142]really? really? is that seriously what you think? 2:3? wow[/QUOTE] Yeah that would seem unreasonably high, but again without the statistics and such the actual number of female-on-male rapes is unknown.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42317124]? I don't understand. The argument you are opposing is that rape is not male exclusive yet you say "female on male rape does occur"? How do you disagree with someone yet say exactly what they are saying?[/QUOTE] I didn't mean that they don't happen. I meant the numbers don't exist because if someone does not come forward it cant be reported there for the numbers simply don't exist. I never have disagreed that it's not male exclusive.
[QUOTE=Wingz;42310191]3 minutes after video was posted 9 minutes after video was posted the video is 18 minutes long[/QUOTE] Video was uploaded 22 hours ago.
[QUOTE=zizzleplix;42317181] Yeah that would seem unreasonably high, but again without the statistics and such the actual number of female-on-male rapes is unknown.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender[/url] [quote]Since only a small percentage of acts of sexual violence are brought to the attention of the authorities, it is difficult to compile accurate statistics. Often, the statistics of successful convictions are looked at lieu of this. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) stated that 91% of United States people whose rape accusations resulted in convictions against the accused were female and 9% were male. It also stated that 99% of the people convicted of and imprisoned in response to rape accusations were male, with only 1% of those convicted being female.[1][/quote] assuming this info is correct, it's at most 1 in 10 and is probably significantly lower due to the factor of men raping other men also i love how people in this thread are going 'oh most female on male rapes go unreported because it's considered emasculating' completely glossing over the fact that most female on male rapes go unreported because, among other things, they are shamed out of reporting it due to deep seated cultural notions that they're to blame somehow regardless, how did this thread get onto this topic? [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Wingz;42310191]3 minutes after video was posted 9 minutes after video was posted the video is 18 minutes long[/QUOTE] the video's also borderline unwatchable
[QUOTE=Winters;42317222]I didn't mean that they don't happen. I meant the numbers don't exist because if someone does not come forward it cant be reported there for the numbers simply don't exist. I never have disagreed that it's not male exclusive.[/QUOTE] Alright. I'm sorry I misinterpreted what you said. The original point still stands, rape is not male exclusive. You said it yourself. There was no reason to disagree with that point as it didn't mention any numbers.
So the argument in the video says simply "Yes, women should take measures to prevent themselves from being painted a target to rapists, and they can do that by not dressing provocatively." This statement mostly applies to the 10% of rapes which happens by strangers. I think it's a good idea. By dressing in a provocative manner you are expressing yourself as a girl who is using her sexual features to gain attention. That shouldn't be debatable, that's a fact. The other 90% of rapes are where the line begins to blur, and what's wrong and right becomes strongly debatable. If you ask me, it's simple: if a woman gives a man consent to have sex with her, and she does not give a strong and clear verbal message to stop during intercourse, and the man has not assaulted her in any manner, then it's not rape. Regardless, the woman should be responsible for trying not to provoke rape and the man is responsible for not being a rapist. If a man took care to not harm a girl physically or emotionally, and respected any clear message to stop having sex, then I can't see how he did anything wrong. It's here where I can't see what feminism is fighting for. Why am I being attacked when I consider myself a much, much more decent person than most men when it comes to being respectful to the other gender (or really everybody for that matter)? Why am I so hated by everyone when I say I'm an anti-feminist? You may think you're fighting for equality between both genders, but in truth you're not. Every day there is a woman somewhere who is manipulating a group of people, both girls and men, and influencing their opinions in this psychotic game women play every day. I have an ex-friend of mine who has a girlfriend. Between a few separate people I have heard that she is a chubby, not so good looking girl. My ex-friend is a tall, good looking male who is at this point basically a tool. This girl has basically done all of the following: -Lied about another friend in the group and ruined his reputation horribly. (Hate to have to say this, but this person is not me) -Pretended to care about another close friend of mine when he had surgery by bringing him chocolates and being nice (bear with me on this one). -Pretended to have cancer and claimed she was about to die. -Pushed the idea that a number of other men have been interested in her, sparking fights between my ex-friend and other men. I have confirmed that at least a few of these were a lie. -While my ex-friend has admitted that she is the love of his life, she has admitted clearly that she does not care for him like he cares for her. -He has, by multiple reports, been so brainwashed that he is completely beyond helping. He has lost a number of friends in the past half of a year who have tried to help him. And does this behavior, despite being (arguably) common, ever get criticized? No. There is absolutely no talk of this being inappropriate or destructive, and that is what is so horribly fucked up about feminism. By these standards the girl is actually the rapist, and the man is the helpless victim. And if you ask me, both sides should be doing something to prevent this kind of bullshit. And when I stand up against this strongly, I should not be labeled as a sexist pig and be hated among everybody, because I saw the truth and fought for it. And any person who ever decides to attack me and label me an idiot for thinking the way I do about a cause I've seen much too much about in my entire life, at least do me the favor of really stepping back and thinking through my point again. I always do the same for people against my opinion.
[QUOTE=HyperVyper;42317417]So the argument in the video says simply "Yes, women should take measures to prevent themselves from being painted a target to rapists, and they can do that by not dressing provocatively." This statement mostly applies to the 10% of rapes which happens by strangers. I think it's a good idea. By dressing in a provocative manner you are expressing yourself as a girl who is using her sexual features to gain attention. That shouldn't be debatable, that's a fact. The other 90% of rapes are where the line begins to blur, and what's wrong and right becomes strongly debatable. If you ask me, it's simple: if a woman gives a man consent to have sex with her, and she does not give a strong and clear verbal message to stop during intercourse, and the man has not assaulted her in any manner, then it's not rape. Regardless, the woman should be responsible for trying not to provoke rape and the man is responsible for not being a rapist. If a man took care to not harm a girl physically or emotionally, and respected any clear message to stop having sex, then I can't see how he did anything wrong. It's here where I can't see what feminism is fighting for. Why am I being attacked when I consider myself a much, much more decent person than most men when it comes to being respectful to the other gender (or really everybody for that matter)? Why am I so hated by everyone when I say I'm an anti-feminist? You may think you're fighting for equality between both genders, but in truth you're not. Every day there is a woman somewhere who is manipulating a group of people, both girls and men, and influencing their opinions in this psychotic game women play every day. I have an ex-friend of mine who has a girlfriend. Between a few separate people I have heard that she is a chubby, not so good looking girl. My ex-friend is a tall, good looking male who is at this point basically a tool. This girl has basically done all of the following: -Lied about another friend in the group and ruined his reputation horribly. -Pretended to care about another close friend of mine when he had surgery by bringing him chocolates and being nice (bear with me on this one). -Pretended to have cancer and claimed she was about to die. -Pushed the idea that a number of other men have been interested in her, sparking fights between my ex-friend and other men. I have confirmed that at least a few of these were a lie. -While my ex-friend has admitted that she is the love of his life, she has admitted clearly that she does not care for him like he cares for her. -Has, by multiple reports, been so brainwashed that he is completely beyond helping. He has lost a number of friends in the past half of a year who have tried to help him. And does this behavior, despite being (arguably) common, ever get criticized? No. There is absolutely no talk of this being inappropriate or destructive, and that is what is so horribly fucked up about feminism. By these standards the girl is actually the rapist, and the man is the helpless victim. And if you ask me, both sides should be doing something to prevent this kind of bullshit. And when I stand up against this strongly, I should not be labeled as a sexist pig and be hated among everybody, because I saw the truth and fought for it. And any person who ever decides to attack me and label me an idiot for thinking the way I do about a cause I've seen much too much about in my entire life, at least do me the favor of really stepping back and thinking through my point again. I always do the same for people against my opinion.[/QUOTE] We've heard this song and dance before hundreds of times. No.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42317501]We've heard this song and dance before hundreds of times. No.[/QUOTE] Then hear it again. [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] And explain to me why it's wrong.
[QUOTE=Generic Monk;42317322][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender[/url] assuming this info is correct, it's at most 1 in 10 and is probably significantly lower due to the factor of men raping other men[/QUOTE] I was accounting for female-on-male rapes that go unreported not the one's that are known, I should've specified that. [QUOTE=Generic Monk;42317322]also i love how people in this thread are going 'oh most female on male rapes go unreported because it's considered emasculating' completely glossing over the fact that most female on male rapes go unreported because, among other things, they are shamed out of reporting it due to deep seated cultural notions that they're to blame somehow[/QUOTE] Yeah it's not just that it's emasculating for a man to admit being raped that prevents male victims from reporting it's also the whole cultural notion that men are stereotyped to be more aggressive and are often the dominating ones so they're thought to be more likely to be the aggressors/perpetrators. Same thing why Domestic violence cases involving the wife abusing the husband is under-reported and also not taken nearly as seriously. [QUOTE=Generic Monk;42317322]regardless, how did this thread get onto this topic?[/QUOTE] Threads dealing with this topic and similar ones (feminism being a notable example) always get way off topic. This shouldn't come as a surprise by now :v: . [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Generic Monk;42317322]the video's also borderline unwatchable[/QUOTE] Most things by Thunderfoot are unwatchable. He's like a less outwardly antagonistic version of the Amazing-Athiest.
Starting with this turd blossom. [quote]The other 90% of rapes are where the line begins to blur, and what's wrong and right becomes strongly debatable. If you ask me, it's simple: if a woman gives a man consent to have sex with her, and she does not give a strong and clear verbal message to stop during intercourse, and the man has not assaulted her in any manner, then it's not rape. Regardless, the woman should be responsible for trying not to provoke rape and the man is responsible for not being a rapist. If a man took care to not harm a girl physically or emotionally, and respected any clear message to stop having sex, then I can't see how he did anything wrong.[/quote] No dude, when someone is intoxicated, you just fucking stop. It's simple as that. And if you're starting in on the MRA line about regretting sex being rape... Seriously? [quote]-Lied about another friend in the group and ruined his reputation horribly. -Pretended to care about another close friend of mine when he had surgery by bringing him chocolates and being nice (bear with me on this one). -Pretended to have cancer and claimed she was about to die. -Pushed the idea that a number of other men have been interested in her, sparking fights between my ex-friend and other men. I have confirmed that at least a few of these were a lie. -While my ex-friend has admitted that she is the love of his life, she has admitted clearly that she does not care for him like he cares for her. -Has, by multiple reports, been so brainwashed that he is completely beyond helping. He has lost a number of friends in the past half of a year who have tried to help him.[/quote] This reads like a sexist stereotype of a old ladies gossip. Why the fuck is someone being a common or garden asshole relevant to feminism? [quote] And does this behavior, despite being (arguably) common, ever get criticized? No. There is absolutely no talk of this being inappropriate or destructive, and that is what is so horribly fucked up about feminism. By these standards the girl is actually the rapist, and the man is the helpless victim.[/quote] If you think this shit is rape, you have no fucking clue what the devil you're talking about.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42317596] This reads like a sexist stereotype of a old ladies gossip. Why the fuck is someone being a common or garden asshole relevant to feminism? If you think this shit is rape, you have no fucking clue what the devil you're talking about.[/QUOTE] All of this is 100% true. This kind of shit does life long damage to a person's reputation and where as it doesn't have the same traumatic effect as rape it is still horribly damaging to your mental well being and trust. It is not OK. I can't see how you don't see the relevance. It's seemingly a double standard that men must respect and not take advantage of women, but it's perfectly OK for women to take advantage of men. And it happens, all of the fucking time.
[QUOTE=HyperVyper;42317706]All of this is 100% true. This kind of shit does life long damage to a person's reputation and where as it doesn't have the same traumatic effect as rape it is still horribly damaging to your mental well being and trust. It is not OK. I can't see how you don't see the relevance. It's seemingly a double standard that men must respect and not take advantage of women, but it's perfectly OK for women to take advantage of men. And it happens, all of the fucking time.[/QUOTE] Hah, if you think that there's a great societal rule against taking advantage of women, you must have been born yesterday. Lot of ruddy window dressing, not much actual substance. And if you think there isn't opprobrium against women being perceived to be taking advantage of men, I've a bridge to sell you. Where do you think 'gold-digger' comes from?
[QUOTE=Swilly;42315984]That's an extremely low percentage to say its not being taught well enough.[/QUOTE] 6% is not a low number when you're talking about the total number of men who have committed a violent crime, which rape is. Put 16 men in a room, statistically at least one of them is a rapist. That's shocking. Every workplace has a rapist. Every lecture hall has a half dozen rapists. The United States congress has around 30 rapists.
[QUOTE=HyperVyper;42317706]It's seemingly a double standard that men must respect and not take advantage of women, but it's perfectly OK for women to take advantage of men. And it happens, all of the fucking time.[/QUOTE] What? Where did you hear this?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;42317785]6% is not a low number when you're talking about the total number of men who have committed a violent crime, which rape is. Put 16 men in a room, statistically at least one of them is a rapist. That's shocking. Every workplace has a rapist. Every lecture hall has a half dozen rapists. The United States congress has around 30 rapists.[/QUOTE] One wonders how many we've got lurking about on this forum.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;42317794]What? Where did you hear this?[/QUOTE] I've ran into a lot of horrible people in my life.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42317819]One wonders how many we've got lurking about on this forum.[/QUOTE] I'm going to guess somewhere between 0 and 2500. Statistically, Facepunch could have up to that many rapists but we can't just take any given group and assume that 6% of them are rapists because that's what statistics tell us, in the same way that I don't walk around and think that 1 out of every 16 males I see are rapists.
[QUOTE=HyperVyper;42318178]I've ran into a lot of horrible people in my life.[/QUOTE] Oh sorry, don't want to intrude into your personal life and trouble you. Thanks for the answer though.
Looks like the gangs all here.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42315442]Why is it so fucking wrong to point out that there are unreported rapes on men but such a good argument to use when it's the other way around? And don't pretend that there's the same % of unreported rapes for men and women. Men are supposed to be the dominant ones, barely anyone takes a report of a guy getting raped by a woman seriously. Patriarchy remember?[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me, this post is beyond absurd. It doesn't take a senior statistician to put two and two together and indicate that it takes a staggering degree of effort for a woman to rape a man, and requires more than a little arousal on a mans part to be physically possible in the first place. The fact that men raping men is reported far more frequently than women raping men should really make that clear. If you're referring to cases of child molestation, that's a whole other matter.
You know what I never understood? That if a woman gets drunk she loses her ability to consent to sex. Sure, I'm fine with that. But if you accept that, then a drunk man also cannot consent to sex. So what happens when two drunk people fuck? Who's being raped? Both? Neither? Does a man's drunkenness not count in this situation? I am legitimately confused when I think of this situation. Would a drunk man having sex with a sober woman be considered a rape? Or non-consensual?
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;42317794]What? Where did you hear this?[/QUOTE] It's been a number of times when people (who claim to be feminists) said that you can't be sexists towards a man (including this forum). [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42318238]I'm going to guess somewhere between 0 and 2500. Statistically, Facepunch could have up to that many rapists but we can't just take any given group and assume that 6% of them are rapists because that's what statistics tell us, in the same way that I don't walk around and think that 1 out of every 16 males I see are rapists.[/QUOTE] I am a serial rapist because I've had sex with my gf when she had a beer/wine/shot on multiple occasions. [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;42318396]Are you kidding me, this post is beyond absurd. It doesn't take a senior statistician to put two and two together and indicate that it takes a staggering degree of effort for a woman to rape a man, and requires more than a little arousal on a mans part to be physically possible in the first place.[/QUOTE] I don't know if you're a male or female but a "hard on" isn't voluntary. [QUOTE=hypno-toad;42318396]The fact that men raping men is reported far more frequently than women raping men should really make that clear.[/QUOTE] Barely any man is going to report being raped by a woman. And barely any report is going to be taken seriously. Patriarchy remember? [QUOTE=hypno-toad;42318396]If you're referring to cases of child molestation, that's a whole other matter.[/QUOTE] I'm not, you can keep that strawman for later.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42318406]I'm not, you can keep that strawman for later.[/QUOTE] Oh sod off. I was asking a question [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;42318406] I don't know if you're a male or female but a "hard on" isn't voluntary. [/QUOTE] I've faced unwanted advances before and in my experience in that circumstance, hard on's are definitely voluntary. This will probably be an anecdote vs anecdote topic however, I don't know how your mind/dick works.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42318406] I am a serial rapist because I've had sex with my gf when she had a beer/wine/shot on multiple occasions. [/QUOTE] Don't pull that strawman. We're talking someone who's actually drunk. [quote]I've faced unwanted advances before and in my experience in that circumstance, hard on's are definitely voluntary. This will probably be an anecdote vs anecdote topic however, I don't know how your mind/dick works. [/quote] No hardon is needed for a woman to rape someone. Fingers or objects.... Do I need to draw a picture?
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42318620]No hardon is needed for a woman to rape someone. Fingers or objects.... Do I need to draw a picture?[/QUOTE] I'm sorry to make the point bust, but that just flat out doesn't happen very often. It's not that it's irrelevant as it is a demeaning crime, but in light how frequently normal vaginal rape happens to women, the case of men being anally penetrated by women is almost irrelevant by sheer comparison. Your chances of being killed by a woman are far higher than being anally raped by a woman, it's not a realistic fear or factor in this situation.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42318554]I've faced unwanted advances before and in my experience in that circumstance, hard on's are definitely voluntary. This will probably be an anecdote vs anecdote topic however, I don't know how your mind/dick works.[/QUOTE] Oral or anal stimulation is rape already, you don't need a hard on pee-pee in a vag for it to be rape, and even if you did, physical stimulation can cause erection without you "agreeing" with the course of action, plus we have intoxication. [editline]26th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42318620]Don't pull that strawman. We're talking someone who's actually drunk. [/QUOTE] It's not a strawman if there are people (including this forum) saying that every intercourse under influence of alcohol is rape. Just to clarify, when you are so intoxicated that you can't give consent, it is rape.
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