[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42318679]
It's not a strawman if there are people (including this forum) saying that every intercourse under influence of alcohol is rape.
Just to clarify, when you are so intoxicated that you can't give consent, it is rape.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, it's just that I've seen people unironically say fucking a drunk isn't rape.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42318780]Sorry, it's just that I've seen people unironically say fucking a drunk isn't rape.[/QUOTE]
But fucking a drunk isn't always rape.
[QUOTE=DuCT;42318818]But fucking a drunk isn't always rape.[/QUOTE]
Speak of the devil and it appears.
Jeep-Eep you rated my post dumb but didn't answer. I am legitimately curious. What happens if both parties are intoxicated?
[QUOTE=Explosions;42318890]Jeep-Eep you rated my post dumb but didn't answer. I am legitimately curious. What happens if both parties are intoxicated?[/QUOTE]
TBH, it's probably unchargable.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42318910]TBH, it's probably unchargable.[/QUOTE]
OK and what if the man is drunk but not the woman?
[QUOTE=Explosions;42318925]OK and what if the man is drunk but not the woman?[/QUOTE]
Then she's a rapist.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42318932]Then she's a rapist.[/QUOTE]
OK I only ask the second question because my college's Sexual Assault Survey only focused on women being intoxicated and I was curious about the case of a man being intoxicated.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42318953]OK I only ask the second question because my college's Sexual Assault Survey only focused on women being intoxicated and I was curious about the case of a man being intoxicated.[/QUOTE]
One party isn't intoxicated = rape. Always.
Edit: When the non-intoxicated party is the initiator.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42319011]One party isn't intoxicated = rape. Always.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that if you're intoxicated, you don't have control over your actions? And, therefore, you shouldn't be accountable?
[QUOTE=Wingz;42319077]Are you saying that if you're intoxicated, you don't have control over your actions? And, therefore, you shouldn't be accountable?[/QUOTE]
Now, when the intoxicated party is an initiator, that introduces new complexity. If you're approached by someone who's drunk who's asking for a fuck, the ethical obligation is to turn them down. When a drunk forces themselves on someone, that's another matter.
It's hardly unknown for rapists to get themselves drunk in order to work themselves up - dutch courage and all that. Then, it can get complicated. The best protection in that case for both parties is for folks to be able to go to the cops, say they were raped, get taken seriously and get examined medically so that a trial can be fairly conducted on evidence.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42319428]Now, when the intoxicated party is an initiator, that introduces new complexity. If you're approached by someone who's drunk who's asking for a fuck, the ethical obligation is to turn them down. When a drunk forces themselves on someone, that's another matter.
It's hardly unknown for rapists to get themselves drunk in order to work themselves up - dutch courage and all that. Then, it can get complicated. The best protection in that case for both parties is for folks to be able to go to the cops, say they were raped, get taken seriously and get examined medically so that a trail can be fairly conducted on evidence.[/QUOTE]
I do believe that you need to reevalute what rape is if you think that because someone is drunk they are automatically a rapist/rape-victim.
[QUOTE=Wingz;42319533]I do believe that you need to reevalute what rape is if you think that because someone is drunk they are automatically a rapist/rape-victim.[/QUOTE]
Your reading comprehension needs work.
To be honest, I think if both parties are intoxicated and nobody has a problem with it, it's not rape.
If one is mildly intoxicated and the other isn't, and the former WANTS to have sex, and in the act doesn't want to stop, it's NOT rape. Even if you regret it the next day.
If one is mildly intoxicated and the other isn't, and the former does NOT want to have sex, it's rape.
If one is completely passed out it's rape.
Here's an illustration
"Hey, I'm super drunk. You wanna have intercourse?"
"Yea, sure."
"Wow! I was only kidding! What are you, a rapist?!"
[QUOTE=DaFreshLemon;42319575]To be honest, I think if both parties are intoxicated and nobody has a problem with it, it's not rape.
If one is mildly intoxicated and the other isn't, and the former WANTS to have sex, and in the act doesn't want to stop, it's NOT rape. Even if you regret it the next day.
If one is mildly intoxicated and the other isn't, and the former does NOT want to have sex, it's rape.
If one is completely passed out it's rape.[/QUOTE]
Emphasis on 'mildly'. Buzzed, okay. Drunk, not okay.
[quote]"Hey, I'm super drunk. You wanna have intercourse?"
"Yea, sure."
"Wow! I was only kidding! What are you, a rapist?!" [/quote]
You don't fuck someone's who's drunk. This is not a complex concept.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42319598]Emphasis on 'mildly'. Buzzed, okay. Drunk, not okay.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know about that. I mean, it's not like the sober person is forcing the other one. The drunk person actually WANTS to have sex with the sober one. Sure, he/she may wake up next morning and think it was not a good idea after all, but in THAT precise moment they wanted to. We all do stupid things while drunk that we may or not regret the next day. If you kill a person while drunk, you are responsible for that, so why shouldn't you be responsible if you have sex with a stranger?. I agree however, that the sober person might actually have bad intentions, and cohercing the drunk one to have sex, I think that borders on rape. But if the drunk one is the approacher, then I think there's no problem with it.
[QUOTE=DaFreshLemon;42319703]I don't know about that. I mean, it's not like the sober person is forcing the other one. The drunk person actually WANTS to have sex with the sober one. Sure, he/she may wake up next morning and think it was not a good idea after all, but in THAT precise moment they wanted to. We all do stupid things while drunk that we may or not regret the next day. If you kill a person while drunk, you are responsible for that, so why shouldn't you be responsible if you have sex with a stranger?. I agree however, that the sober person might actually have bad intentions, and cohercing the drunk one to have sex, I think that borders on rape. But if the drunk one is the approacher, then I think there's no problem with it.[/QUOTE]
No dude. Don't fuck people who are seriously inebriated. That is generally a good rule to hold oneself to.
Edit: Quite aside from the ethics, they tend to be terrible screws. Bad coordination kind of ruins it.
[QUOTE=Wingz;42319077]Are you saying that if you're intoxicated, you don't have control over your actions? And, therefore, you shouldn't be accountable?[/QUOTE]
Dude, if someone sober is having sex with someone who is drunk, that's rape.
yeah honestly you shouldn't be trying to have sex with drunk people if you're sober. at best that's incredibly creepy and yeah at worst its rape
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42319011]One party isn't intoxicated = rape. Always.
Edit: When the non-intoxicated party is the initiator.[/QUOTE]
Holy fuck what fucked up reality do you live in? So your girlfriend gets drunk, you wanna have sex, you ask, she says yes, and now apparently you are a rapist?
Hell, you do realize some people get drunk to get fucked? Shit like partys and clubs.
The only time id say its rape is if the person is black out drunk and not even forming sentences or passed out, but if they say yes and let you then its not fucking rape, they might regret it the next morning, and it might have been a bad decision, but its still not rape.
Are you even old enough to drink in all honesty? Have you even been drunk?
People should take precautions because we don't live in an ideal world but that should never be taken into account in rape cases.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;42320716]
The only time id say its rape is if the person is black out drunk and not even forming sentences or passed out[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty thats what he means by drunk.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42320420]Dude, if someone sober is having sex with someone who is drunk, that's rape.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't that kind of mindset basically make anything done while drunk illegal?
In which case, why not just ban alcohol?
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;42320716]Holy fuck what fucked up reality do you live in? So your girlfriend gets drunk, you wanna have sex, you ask, she says yes, and now apparently you are a rapist?
Hell, you do realize some people get drunk to get fucked? Shit like partys and clubs.
The only time id say its rape is if the person is black out drunk and not even forming sentences or passed out, but if they say yes and let you then its not fucking rape, they might regret it the next morning, and it might have been a bad decision, but its still not rape.
Are you even old enough to drink in all honesty? Have you even been drunk?[/QUOTE]
it's different circumstances if it's your girlfriend i'd say, but even then it just seems creepy as hell to me the idea of someone sober going at someone who's drunk
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42321190]it's different circumstances if it's your girlfriend i'd say, but even then it just seems creepy as hell to me the idea of someone sober going at someone who's drunk[/QUOTE]
Isn't that a bit discriminatory? What if someone is a teetotaler?
For instance, I don't drink alcohol much at all (perhaps 3-4 times a year), but I still go to bars/clubs etc. It isn't going to stop me being interested in a girl who is mildly intoxicated.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42321126]Wouldn't that kind of mindset basically make anything done while drunk illegal?
In which case, why not just ban alcohol?[/QUOTE]
In that case, let's just re-amend prohibition.
[QUOTE=code_gs;42321348]In that case, let's just re-amend prohibition.[/QUOTE]
Well a lot of people on this thread seem to present the idea that it is impossible to have a few drinks and not want to go out binge drinking every single day of the week and that the presence of one mouthful of wine absolutely rids anyone of being able to consent to things and absolves them of responsibility when it comes to sex but not when it comes to drunk driving.
There isn't even any realistic scale on what effect various amounts of alcohol have on different people.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42321321]Isn't that a bit discriminatory? What if someone is a teetotaler?
For instance, I don't drink alcohol much at all (perhaps 3-4 times a year), but I still go to bars/clubs etc. It isn't going to stop me being interested in a girl who is mildly intoxicated.[/QUOTE]
why do people keep assuming that drunk means 'mildly intoxicated' or they've had 1 drink or something? drunk means drunk. maybe their needs to be a legal line saying when someone is inebriated or not.
[editline]27th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42321382]Well a lot of people on this thread seem to present the idea that it is impossible to have a few drinks and not want to go out binge drinking every single day of the week and that [B]the presence of one mouthful of wine absolutely rids anyone of being able to consent to things[/B] and absolves them of responsibility when it comes to sex but not when it comes to drunk driving.
There isn't even any realistic scale on what effect various amounts of alcohol have on different people.[/QUOTE]
YEAH MAN THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT EVERYONE'S BEEN SAYING, when i say drunk i actually mean if they've even SMELT alcohol!
[editline]27th September 2013[/editline]
what are you even on about anyway, we're saying, if a chick is drunk and you're sober, then fuck off and don't try to root her you creepy cunt.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42320904]People should take precautions because we don't live in an ideal world but that should never be taken into account in rape cases.
I'm pretty thats what he means by drunk.[/QUOTE]
If thats what he means you need to be clear, because drunk is very VERY subjective, I can have like 12 beers and be drunk, obviously retarded to drive, but still think clearly enough to know that im being raped.
Blackout drunk is not subjective.
Honestly the only time rape applies to being drunk is being non responsive(blackout) or not ever saying yes, otherwise its not rape at all.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42321382]Well a lot of people on this thread seem to present the idea that it is impossible to have a few drinks and not want to go out binge drinking every single day of the week and that the presence of one mouthful of wine absolutely rids anyone of being able to consent to things and absolves them of responsibility when it comes to sex but not when it comes to drunk driving.
There isn't even any realistic scale on what effect various amounts of alcohol have on different people.[/QUOTE]
I think some people just assume that if a person has had any amount of alcohol or is in anyway "drunk", their judgement is instantly blurred. In reality, different amounts of alcohol affect people differently. It's personal responsibility to have self-control and not drink over one's limits. Just like Thunderf00t said, if their judgement is actually impaired, then it's their fault for drinking by their own free will. If they are drinking because of an addiction, then they need to seek help; it's still their fault for not handling the issue properly.
Also, their is a clear line between drinking by choice and being forced to drink (guy slipping drugs/alcohol in a girl's non-alcoholic drink). Yes, in many cases it is not a girl's fault if she is raped, but she also has to take responsibility if she purposely did something that increased her chance of seeking unwanted attention (sending mixed signals/drinking more than she knows she should be).
Also, like the case a few months ago where those two football players raped that one girl who was blacked-out from being drunk, what they did was wrong. She did not give consent, but she has to take a sliver of responsibility for one: drinking underage and two: drinking past her limits. Otherwise, most responsibility falls upon the rapists because she did not even give consent.
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