[QUOTE=Skelmech;42325005]there isn't a problem here.
if they are getting past tipsy then they're drunk. hell depending on how much of a lightweight they are then tipsy might be too much.
[editline]27th September 2013[/editline]
this thread is really fucking disgusting[/QUOTE]
There is a problem here.
"past tipsy" isn't any form of actual measurement.
Its as much up to the person determining as the person who they are looking at.
I don't understand how this is a "really fucking disgusting" thread either.
what's so disgusting about trying to find out exactly how drunk a girl is able to be before i can trick her into having sex with me without being called creepy or a rapist
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42325096]There is a problem here.
"past tipsy" isn't any form of actual measurement.
Its as much up to the person determining as the person who they are looking at.
I don't understand how this is a "really fucking disgusting" thread either.[/QUOTE]
what's disgusting is how many FP'ers more or less admitted they'd happily rape a drunk girl.
and stop acting like its hard to tell when someone is fucking drunk. it's not.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;42325206]what's disgusting is how many FP'ers more or less admitted they'd happily rape a drunk girl.
and stop acting like its hard to tell when someone is fucking drunk. it's not.[/QUOTE]
How exactly is it rape if they are consenting and only mildly drunk?
We're talking about someone who has fully consented to sex.
Also isn't it a little sexist to assume that only drunk women get raped?
Moral of the story is just get piss drunk yourself then it can't be rape because you're also in a diminished state of mind.
Or maybe it will even be YOU who is the one being raped!
[QUOTE=Zeke129;42322774]If you commit a crime while drunk the courts will consider your diminished state of mind when deciding culpability. I'm sorry, but the law simply does not support your statement. If you drive drunk and kill someone you will not go to jail as long as you would if you went out in your car sober and purposely hit someone. \[/QUOTE]
Totally wrong, an accident, assuming it was an accident, won't land you in jail. It will bring massive fines and a bar from driving, but not prison time, at least not for long.
[QUOTE=katbug;42325483]Totally wrong, an accident, assuming it was an accident, won't land you in jail. It will bring massive fines and a bar from driving, but not prison time, at least not for long.[/QUOTE]
If you were drunk driving and killed someone because of that it will definitely get you jail time. At that point it becomes negligent homicide.
[QUOTE=katbug;42325483]Totally wrong, an accident, assuming it was an accident, won't land you in jail. It will bring massive fines and a bar from driving, but not prison time, at least not for long.[/QUOTE]
are you illiterate
[editline]27th September 2013[/editline]
it says in the post
[B]purposely[/B]
i've said for such a long time that the "teach men not to rape" thing was so stupid. i can't stand rape, it gets me irrationally angry fairly often, but i just don't get this argument. there are hundreds of legitimate arguments against rape culture and you're going to choose this one out of all of them?
[QUOTE=RautaPalli;42325507]If you were drunk driving and killed someone because of that it will definitely get you jail time. At that point it becomes negligent homicide.[/QUOTE]
Also the difference is that drunk driving is something you do to others (and possibly yourself), rape is something done to you
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42321190]it's different circumstances if it's your girlfriend i'd say, but even then it just seems creepy as hell to me the idea of someone sober going at someone who's drunk[/QUOTE]
Most of the time you're not sober either.
Rape is really difficult because a lot of circumstances can push it into question. Like if both people are drunk and they have sex, they technically just raped each other in a black and white world.
But that's not our world.
[QUOTE=Swilly;42326971]Most of the time you're not sober either.
Rape is really difficult because a lot of circumstances can push it into question. Like if both people are drunk and they have sex, they technically just raped each other in a black and white world.
But that's not out world.[/QUOTE]
Rape isn't the only thing complicated by alcohol either.
There are people out there who do take medication that doesn't give off any outward appearance to the world that they have impaired decision making, yet they do.
Unless there is proof of rape (i.e. violence/CCTV/eyewitnesses/etc) it really seems like 95% of the time it boils down to he said she said. It's pretty shit, but that's what human beings are.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;42325206]what's disgusting is how many FP'ers more or less admitted they'd happily rape a drunk girl.
and stop acting like its hard to tell when someone is fucking drunk. it's not.[/QUOTE]I see a lot of debating on "Where's the line?"but I'm not seeing where people are saying or even implying that they'd rape a drunk girl, much less do it happily. As I said before, lets not get too carefree about who we accuse of such a horrendous crime.
I think a lot of people are genuinely confused, in no small part because the idea of going to the bar to meet and potentially sleep with a partner is seen as a very normal thing (on both sides). Far as I can tell, this "You shouldn't have sex while either or both parties are drunk" is a recent development.
I don't like how eager some people on this forum are to label others with such horrifying implications (sexist, racist, rapist, etc), so lets not be so carefree about that and instead try to educate the other side instead of aggresively insulting them.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42327061]I see a lot of debating on "Where's the line?"but I'm not seeing where people are saying or even implying that they'd rape a drunk girl, much less do it happily. As I said before, lets not get too carefree about who we accuse of such a horrendous crime.
I think a lot of people are genuinely confused, in no small part because the idea of going to the bar to meet and potentially sleep with a partner is seen as a very normal thing (on both sides). Far as I can tell, this "You shouldn't have sex while either or both parties are drunk" is a recent development.
I don't like how eager some people on this forum are to label others with such horrifying implications (sexist, racist, rapist, etc), so lets not be so carefree about that and instead try to educate the other side instead of aggresively insulting them.[/QUOTE]
It also diminishes the actual claim of its seriousness when you just blatantly spout it at everyone.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42326292]Also the difference is that drunk driving is something you do to others (and possibly yourself), rape is something done to you[/QUOTE]
Rape involves another person Max, so just like drunk driving, you are putting people in harm.
Unless you figured out how to rape your own body.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42321842]
They can't consent since they're not in a reasonable state of mind. Like imagine a patient signing a contact while delirious with morphine.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;42322381]
Thats like saying drunk driving is okay because hey, they arent in the right state of mind when they do it right?[/QUOTE]
What? Deciding to do something and having something done to you are different things.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;42328201]Rape involves another person Max, so just like drunk driving, you are putting people in harm.
Unless you figured out how to rape your own body.[/QUOTE]
Drunk driving = You drunk hurting others
Rape = You drunk being hurt
Did you even read his post properly?
[QUOTE=Swilly;42327220]It also diminishes the actual claim of its seriousness when you just blatantly spout it at everyone.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Hell, literally half of Facepunch would be racist/sexist/otherhorriblething if these threads were completely accurate.
That's not how a good debate works; once you've resorted to labels and/or namecalling like that, your part in the argument has lost its credibility.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42329331]Exactly. Hell, literally half of Facepunch would be racist/sexist/otherhorriblething if these threads were completely accurate.
That's not how a good debate works; once you've resorted to labels and/or namecalling like that, your part in the argument has lost its credibility.[/QUOTE]
As I've said before, when the description is accurate, use it.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;42330050]As I've said before, when the description is accurate, use it.[/QUOTE]
And I'd disagree that the description is accurate nearly as often as it seems to show up on this website, but that's just me. I find it extremely hard to believe that such a significant portion of Facepunch is worthy of being labelled as something so despicable as a racist/sexist/etc. And then there's the putting of words in others mouths to make them look bad:
[quote]what's so disgusting about trying to find out exactly how drunk a girl is able to be before i can trick her into having sex with me without being called creepy or a rapist[/quote]
[B]Nowhere[/B] did anyone say that. People are asking where the line is, and for damn good reason. Hell, I [I]thought[/I] I knew the line before this thread, now I don't know what it is and when it changed because so many people seem to have different definitions. As I said before, people going to bars to get tipsy/drunk and possibly sleep with someone has always been portrayed as an [I]extremely[/I] normal thing and now for people to be saying that it's a disgusting thing worthy of being labelled a rapist...I'd imagine that's why a lot of folks in this thread are recoiling in surprise.
I don't know. I'm not trying to sound naive or ignorant, I'm just genuinely confused at this point.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42331349][B]Nowhere[/B] did anyone say that. People are asking where the line is, and for damn good reason. Hell, I [I]thought[/I] I knew the line before this thread, now I don't know what it is and when it changed because so many people seem to have different definitions. As I said before, people going to bars to get tipsy/drunk and possibly sleep with someone has always been portrayed as an [I]extremely[/I] normal thing and now for people to be saying that it's a disgusting thing worthy of being labelled a rapist...I'd imagine that's why a lot of folks in this thread are recoiling in surprise.
I don't know. I'm not trying to sound naive or ignorant, I'm just genuinely confused at this point.[/QUOTE]
To add to the confusion is the fact that women cannot handle alcohol well; [URL="http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa46.htm"]they become more drunk from less alcohol[/URL].
So even if you went on a date with a woman, and you both consumed the exact same amount of alcohol, she would actually end up being more drunk.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42329331]Exactly. Hell, literally half of Facepunch would be racist/sexist/otherhorriblething if these threads were completely accurate.
That's not how a good debate works; once you've resorted to labels and/or namecalling like that, your part in the argument has lost its credibility.[/QUOTE]
Nah it's more the fact that people misinterpret, willfully or otherwise, the labels that get attributed to them.
If someone calls you a racist, that doesn't mean you attend weekly KKK meetings and stab minorities, it just means you made a post that comes across as racist.
If someone calls you a sexist it doesn't mean that you beat women, it just means that you made a sexist post.
It's not namecalling, it's pointing out bias or a lack of logic. You can't effectively debate with someone about race or sex/gender if someone is going into the debate with ill-conceived notions like that. It doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you look like a racist or a sexist and you get called out on one. I don't know if I've ever made posts with racism or sexism in them but there certainly was a time when I would have described myself as holding sexist positions just a few years ago.
You also give far too much credit to legitimately racist or sexist people by saying that the person using those terms has somehow "lost credibility" in their argument. If I'm having a debate about abortion and my opponent comes out of nowhere and says that women today are just sluts, than my allegations that he holds a sexist position in no way affects my argument for or against the issue at hand. It's merely pointing out a logical fallacy.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42332658]Nah it's more the fact that people misinterpret, willfully or otherwise, the labels that get attributed to them.
If someone calls you a racist, that doesn't mean you attend weekly KKK meetings and stab minorities, it just means you made a post that comes across as racist.
If someone calls you a sexist it doesn't mean that you beat women, it just means that you made a sexist post.
It's not namecalling, it's pointing out bias or a lack of logic. You can't effectively debate with someone about race or sex/gender if someone is going into the debate with ill-conceived notions like that. It doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you look like a racist or a sexist and you get called out on one. I don't know if I've ever made posts with racism or sexism in them but there certainly was a time when I would have described myself as holding sexist positions just a few years ago.
You also give far too much credit to legitimately racist or sexist people by saying that the person using those terms has somehow "lost credibility" in their argument. If I'm having a debate about abortion and my opponent comes out of nowhere and says that women today are just sluts, than my allegations that he holds a sexist position in no way affects my argument for or against the issue at hand. It's merely pointing out a logical fallacy.[/QUOTE]
Being called a rapist is pretty serious, don't expect people to take that shit lightly. Call the post/position sexist, and explain why it is so. Labeling alone isn't going to change anyone's views, quite the opposite. There's also the chance that whatever you're arguing isn't completely black and white, some people are too quick at labeling anyone who doesn't share their exact same mindset.
You don't point out someone's lack of logic by calling him a faggot, it makes no sense, it's not constructive and won't show him why he's wrong, it's better to just leave namecalling out of it, save it for people who actually deserve it and are not willing to listen.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;42316510]This is only reports. You haven't considered the fact that men are less likely to report rapes by women, because it's considered emasculating. I'd imagine less than 1-2% of female-on-male rapes get reported. I'd imagine the ratio of female to male perpetrators is about 2:3 realistically in Western society. Maybe 1:3. Still not remotely insignificant.[/QUOTE]
this is why i tend to take studies like these with a grain of salt
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;42325206]what's disgusting is how many FP'ers more or less admitted they'd happily rape a drunk girl.
and stop acting like its hard to tell when someone is fucking drunk. it's not.[/QUOTE]
it's not that matter of identifying whether someone is drunk or not, it's identifying whether it's even okay to identify if they're still able to consent under any amount of alcohol. you do realize that most FP are teenagers who would hump a couch, correct? sexually most of FP has no clue what to in a situation as long as they're getting it. it's a sad truth, and I don't mean that harshly towards all facepunchers, just the group of people who would willingly rape a drunk girl. personally, i feel that under any amount of alcohol you are not able to make a logical decision even if it's just a small amount. better safe than sorry
[QUOTE=Deep;42333016]
You don't point out someone's lack of logic by calling him a faggot[/QUOTE]
where at all in my post am I endorsing this?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42335537]where at all in my post am I endorsing this?[/QUOTE]
The whole thing ? You don't need to resort to namecalling to point out their lack of logic.
[QUOTE=Deep;42335658]The whole thing ? You don't need to resort to namecalling to point out their lack of logic.[/QUOTE]
I explicitly said this in my post, the same one you quoted.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42336241]I explicitly said this in my post, the same one you quoted.[/QUOTE]
No ? Your post said that it isn't namecalling, calling someone a racist isn't "pointing out flaws in their logic", it's calling them a racist. This isn't open to interpretation.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42332658]
If someone calls you a racist, that doesn't mean you attend weekly KKK meetings and stab minorities, it just means you made a post that comes across as racist.
If someone calls you a sexist it doesn't mean that you beat women, it just means that you made a sexist post. [/QUOTE]
Ah, well that seems to be the problem. Being called a racist or a sexist is a horrifying thing, and calling the [I]person[/I] racist/sexist for a racist/sexist post is treating those terms too lightly, in my opinion.
Same goes with the accusation of being a rapist. While you didn't do this, a few people here accused others of being rapists even though, so far as I can tell, nobody here even so much as implied they wanted to rape someone. That's a problem we seem to have on this website; these kinds of labels are being thrown around entirely too often seemingly without regard for how severe they are. Being labelled a rapist is one of the worst things that could happen to someone, and that goes double if they aren't guilty of it which I'd imagine is true of just about everyone here.
I just think those words need some more care, and all of these threads seem to immediately go to the labels and namecalling for some odd reason.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42336680]Ah, well that seems to be the problem. Being called a racist or a sexist is a horrifying thing, and calling the [I]person[/I] racist/sexist for a racist/sexist post is treating those terms too lightly, in my opinion.
Same goes with the accusation of being a rapist. While you didn't do this, a few people here accused others of being rapists even though, so far as I can tell, nobody here even so much as implied they wanted to rape someone. That's a problem we seem to have on this website; these kinds of labels are being thrown around entirely too often seemingly without regard for how severe they are. Being labelled a rapist is one of the worst things that could happen to someone, and that goes double if they aren't guilty of it which I'd imagine is true of just about everyone here.
I just think those words need some more care, and all of these threads seem to immediately go to the labels and namecalling for some odd reason.[/QUOTE]
I miss bad reading. You literally quoted the point I was trying to make and still call it "horrifying". If you truly think being called a racist or a sexist is horrifying then just stop making racist or sexist posts.
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