Do You Believe in 'Life after Death'? - General

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42537445]I used to think like that too. Then I realized that logically if I were to go to heaven, there would have to be some way to make it so I was happy with no end. Hard to comprehend, but think about it... if there's a higher power capable of things we can't even begin to imagine, shouldn't he/she be able to make us eternally happy? After all, happiness is just an emotion caused by chemicals in the brain. What if we kept a maximum amount of these chemicals in our brain active? It's just a thought. I'm not a scientist and don't claim to be. [editline]16th October 2013[/editline] Yeah, I'm sure if there was a study tomorrow showing proof for the "impossible", you would dismiss it in a heartbeat because it went against what you believe. Or because of the whole "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" BS. There probably never will be enough evidence to prove these kinds of things. Hell, even your almighty Big Bang Theory you guys seem to worship isn't conclusive in the slightest. It just "makes more sense."[/QUOTE] Not to go off topic but eh, if energy/mass cannot be created or destroyed, then how the hell did the big bang happen? Or more specifically, what came before the big bang?

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42537445]I used to think like that too. Then I realized that logically if I were to go to heaven, there would have to be some way to make it so I was happy with no end. Hard to comprehend, but think about it... if there's a higher power capable of things we can't even begin to imagine, shouldn't he/she be able to make us eternally happy? After all, happiness is just an emotion caused by chemicals in the brain. What if we kept a maximum amount of these chemicals in our brain active? It's just a thought. I'm not a scientist and don't claim to be. [editline]16th October 2013[/editline] Yeah, I'm sure if there was a study tomorrow showing proof for the "impossible", you would dismiss it in a heartbeat because it went against what you believe. Or because of the whole "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" BS. There probably never will be enough evidence to prove these kinds of things. Hell, even your almighty Big Bang Theory you guys seem to worship isn't conclusive in the slightest. It just "makes more sense."[/QUOTE] We wouldn't have a brain to induce chemicals in. Going to heaven is proof of a soul, souls discount and make all sorts of our knowledge about the brain meaningless and would counter any sort of "chemical" theories we have on the brain. Also, happiness is happiness because you have bad moods to contrast it with. If god is making me happy all the time through some artificial means, is that not sort of sad and manipulative and a worthless form of happiness in the first place as it is not something you achieved or earned or anything, just an eternal euphoric feeling of being happy? I feel like that's a little more depressing than being worm food. Of being recycled into something new. You don't know what I believe, do not make claims to know. If science isn't performed on the right principles, and with an end goal already in sight, of course it will prove what you want it to prove as truth. This does not make it science. If you can show proof of the "impossible", it isn't impossible is it? It's very real, but I haven't seen evidence of that. If you really want to take 1830's science seriously, why don't you do some of the other ridiculous things from the time that we believed helped with health and other things? We didn't have a firm grasp on the world in those days at all compared to now. Doubt this if you want or take it as some sort of slander against what you believe in, but that's just you not critically breaking down ideas you agree with and being offended someone else hasn't swallowed the big chunks you have. [editline]15th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=TheMrFailz;42537544]Not to go off topic but eh, if energy/mass cannot be created or destroyed, then how the hell did the big bang happen? Or more specifically, what came before the big bang?[/QUOTE] we don't know. we don't make assumptions either without trying to have the evidence for those claims. but claiming an existence of a soul, or creator or what have you in the lack of a firm and complete idea as of yet seems less than rational.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42537708]We wouldn't have a brain to induce chemicals in. Going to heaven is proof of a soul, souls discount and make all sorts of our knowledge about the brain meaningless and would counter any sort of "chemical" theories we have on the brain. Also, happiness is happiness because you have bad moods to contrast it with. If god is making me happy all the time through some artificial means, is that not sort of sad and manipulative and a worthless form of happiness in the first place as it is not something you achieved or earned or anything, just an eternal euphoric feeling of being happy? I feel like that's a little more depressing than being worm food. Of being recycled into something new. You don't know what I believe, do not make claims to know. If science isn't performed on the right principles, and with an end goal already in sight, of course it will prove what you want it to prove as truth. This does not make it science. If you can show proof of the "impossible", it isn't impossible is it? It's very real, but I haven't seen evidence of that. If you really want to take 1830's science seriously, why don't you do some of the other ridiculous things from the time that we believed helped with health and other things? We didn't have a firm grasp on the world in those days at all compared to now. Doubt this if you want or take it as some sort of slander against what you believe in, but that's just you not critically breaking down ideas you agree with and being offended someone else hasn't swallowed the big chunks you have. [editline]15th October 2013[/editline] we don't know. we don't make assumptions either without trying to have the evidence for those claims. but claiming an existence of a soul, or creator or what have you in the lack of a firm and complete idea as of yet seems less than rational.[/QUOTE] To be fair, I wasn't supporting the 1800's science thing. I was just saying that most of the people here wouldn't feel satisfied with any amount of proof if it meant it proved them wrong. And I guess that's your opinion... I personally don't see why anyone would rather be in the ground and feel nothing than be in heaven and feel constantly happy. It shouldn't matter if happiness is forced upon you. You're happy. Is that bad?

I try not to think about life after death, knowing that if there is one: when I die, it'll be an endgame. There wont ever be any new discoveries, politics, debates, etc. It'll be over, just being my own personal hell, with everything finished and pre-created. Like a linear game with no mod tools.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42538080]To be fair, I wasn't supporting the 1800's science thing. I was just saying that most of the people here wouldn't feel satisfied with any amount of proof if it meant it proved them wrong. And I guess that's your opinion... I personally don't see why anyone would rather be in the ground and feel nothing than be in heaven and feel constantly happy. It shouldn't matter if happiness is forced upon you. You're happy. Is that bad?[/QUOTE] Yes. It is bad. You cannot have happiness without misery. and they shouldn't feel like they should accept those studies. they are proven bunk bullshit at this time in our history as far as we can tell.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42538863]Yes. It is bad. You cannot have happiness without misery. and they shouldn't feel like they should accept those studies. they are proven bunk bullshit at this time in our history as far as we can tell.[/QUOTE] Okay... I guess that's a pretty depressing way to look at it. If you're happy, you're happy. It shouldn't matter how.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42541740]Okay... I guess that's a pretty depressing way to look at it. If you're happy, you're happy. It shouldn't matter how.[/QUOTE] But I don't think that's "happiness".

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42538080]To be fair, I wasn't supporting the 1800's science thing. I was just saying that most of the people here wouldn't feel satisfied with any amount of proof if it meant it proved them wrong. And I guess that's your opinion... I personally don't see why anyone would rather be in the ground and feel nothing than be in heaven and feel constantly happy. It shouldn't matter if happiness is forced upon you. You're happy. Is that bad?[/QUOTE] Happiness or sadness has no room in an argument for proving whenever or not one lives after death. As far as we know, there is no physical process for that.

Scientists want to understand the world just like you. The only difference is, once they think they know something, they test it. If it passes, someone else tests it in case their bias got in the way. You can live in whatever deluded fantasy you want to, but don't insult the people who would like to know what's actually going on around them.

I don't believe being dead is any different from not having been born yet. There's nothing that holds what stores what you feel, so why should you feel anything? There's nothing that stores [I]you[/I], so why should you remain? Now if I could get proven otherwise I'll gladly accept that death is flying around among the clouds for an eternity playing a harp or whatever. Until then, I don't see why my outlook on things is any more depressing or sad than anyone else's. It's not like I'll be disappointed in the state of affairs when I'm gone.

[QUOTE=vagrant;42516350]there's no after death[/QUOTE] And how do you know this 100%? Are you saying that just because it feels unlikely to you? Have you been dead before? Posts like that don't go anywhere. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42537266]so what's uplifting about eternal, never ending life?[/quote] Let's assume that there's 100% proof that heaven existed. Imagine a time where you were most happiest, and that happiest was multiplied by 500. It's easy to dismiss that because you're only point of reference is being alive on Earth as an imperfect human and nothing else. It's easy as hell to just sit back and go "nope, there's no life death" with no concrete evidence to prove it. Though there's no indisputable proof that an afterlife [I]does[/I] exist.

Lets just assume that there's no evidence for a life after death, which you admitted. Therefore I fully doubt it's existence until I get proof. [editline]16th October 2013[/editline] Nothing less than logical

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42538080]I personally don't see why anyone would rather be in the ground and feel nothing than be in heaven and feel constantly happy. It shouldn't matter if happiness is forced upon you.[/QUOTE] It's not about what we'd prefer to be true, I'd love it if I knew there was an eternal afterlife of happiness and rewards but nothing I know about the world suggests that possibility so I'm forced to assume otherwise. For my money the first stumbling block for any suggestion of life after death is the question, why not life before birth? Like Mark Twain (maybe) said, "Why should I fear death? I was dead for millions of years before I was born and didn't suffer the slightest inconvenience."

[QUOTE=xZippy;42547662]And how do you know this 100%? Are you saying that just because it feels unlikely to you? Have you been dead before? Posts like that don't go anywhere. Let's assume that there's 100% proof that heaven existed. Imagine a time where you were most happiest, and that happiest was multiplied by 500. It's easy to dismiss that because you're only point of reference is being alive on Earth as an imperfect human and nothing else. It's easy as hell to just sit back and go "nope, there's no life death" with no concrete evidence to prove it. Though there's no indisputable proof that an afterlife [I]does[/I] exist.[/QUOTE] Burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. If the claim is untestable then there's no sense in thinking about it, and it's just as likely as any other metaphysical claim by any other of the thousands of religions.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42542678]But I don't think that's "happiness".[/QUOTE] You missed what I said entirely... I'm saying that to be truly happy in heaven, you will NOT feel sadness. Meaning, you're happy all the time... There is some sort of "force" making you happy. The thought of "wow, my happiness is worthless" doesn't even cross your mind since you're always happy. There is no sadness is what I'm saying. You wouldn't think like you are now in heaven. Of course, it's all just my point of view (which I have for my own personal reasons). There is NO sadness in heaven. NONE. Anything you think would make you sad, would NOT. That's what I'm trying to say. [editline]17th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=xZippy;42547662]And how do you know this 100%? Are you saying that just because it feels unlikely to you? Have you been dead before? Posts like that don't go anywhere. Let's assume that there's 100% proof that heaven existed. Imagine a time where you were most happiest, and that happiest was multiplied by 500. It's easy to dismiss that because you're only point of reference is being alive on Earth as an imperfect human and nothing else. It's easy as hell to just sit back and go "nope, there's no life death" with no concrete evidence to prove it. Though there's no indisputable proof that an afterlife [I]does[/I] exist.[/QUOTE] Honestly... I have been that happy. That's my "personal reason" I mentioned. I had a dream one time where it was seriously the MOST happy feeling you could ever imagine multiplied by 1,000. I even describe it as actually being in heaven. It was so powerful I actually took action to try and replicate the feeling as I felt as if it were "a sign from God." Regardless, when I explain it to people, they don't understand. I don't expect them to, honestly. But before that dream, I didn't really believe in a god. Just saying why I believe in an afterlife. [editline]17th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Falubii;42548472]Burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. If the claim is untestable then there's no sense in thinking about it, and it's just as likely as any other metaphysical claim by any other of the thousands of religions.[/QUOTE] I claim an afterlife doesn't exist. Now go ahead and test it. Wait, what? You can't? It must mean there's an afterlife!

Then there is no happiness as what is anything bathed in itself forever but nothing? The value of infinite happiness is less than that of limited and I feel you're really just thinking emotionally about what you'd rather be true [editline]16th October 2013[/editline] And your last sentence in that post is a pathetic misuse of burden of proof.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42549005]Then there is no happiness as what is anything bathed in itself forever but nothing? The value of infinite happiness is less than that of limited and I feel you're really just thinking emotionally about what you'd rather be true [editline]16th October 2013[/editline] And your last sentence in that post is a pathetic misuse of burden of proof.[/QUOTE] What? I don't see what you're getting at... Sure, it's better to have a reason for your happiness. But it isn't going to feel any better if you're going by what I'm saying. Happiness is happiness. It shouldn't matter how or why. You know what? Yeah, I am being emotional about what I'd rather be true. Guess what? So are you! You'd rather have your afterlife be happy with a large side of depressing. I'd rather have mine be constantly happy. There is no difference here. Your sad interpretation doesn't make mine any less credible. When it comes down to these kinds of things, everything is twisted to what you WANT to believe. Since there is no way to provide evidence that either one of us is right, your word is no better than mine. I'm going to continue to believe heaven is a happy place based upon my experiences. I can't say why you'd want to believe heaven is a terrible place because that's all in your head. My last sentence is an exploit to that logic... If EITHER claim can't be proven to a reasonable degree, then there is no reason to spew your scientific mumbo jumbo in an attempt to disprove an afterlife. Just like there is no reason to spew Bible quotes in an attempt to prove there is an afterlife. Neither are very credible when used in this instance.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42549460]My last sentence is an exploit to that logic... If EITHER claim can't be proven to a reasonable degree, then there is no reason to spew your scientific mumbo jumbo in an attempt to disprove an afterlife. Just like there is no reason to spew Bible quotes in an attempt to prove there is an afterlife. Neither are very credible when used in this instance.[/QUOTE] You have to prove your side is correct though. The default is "It does not exist" because we do not have evidence. You need to provide evidence so we can move away from the default in order to prove your argument.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42548926]I claim an afterlife doesn't exist. Now go ahead and test it. Wait, what? You can't? It must mean there's an afterlife![/QUOTE] I claim that reincarnation does not occur after death. Now go ahead and test it. Wait, what? You can't? It must mean we are reincarnated! But wait, how can there be both an afterlife and reincarnation? Please stop. Using your logic you could literally "prove" anything. I'm done posting here as it's a tremendous waste of time. Have fun with your fantasies :)

[QUOTE]I claim an afterlife doesn't exist. Now go ahead and test it. Wait, what? You can't? It must mean there's an afterlife![/QUOTE] This is not debating, if you make a claim the burden of proof lies on you, you can not falsify a negative.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42549460]What? I don't see what you're getting at... Sure, it's better to have a reason for your happiness. But it isn't going to feel any better if you're going by what I'm saying. Happiness is happiness. It shouldn't matter how or why. You know what? Yeah, I am being emotional about what I'd rather be true. Guess what? So are you! You'd rather have your afterlife be happy with a large side of depressing. I'd rather have mine be constantly happy. There is no difference here. Your sad interpretation doesn't make mine any less credible. When it comes down to these kinds of things, everything is twisted to what you WANT to believe. [/QUOTE] You clearly don't get this. Without light, what is dark? It is endless darkness, and endless light would be endless light, but in the absence of their contrasting force, all you have is nothingness, a wave, a wash with nothing but the same as everything else. This is not of value in my opinion. You need contrast for anything to exist, for anything to be of value. how am I being emotional about this? I don't care that i'm going to die, I've accepted that for literally decades and I'm not afraid of dying. I just see the lack of any reasoning in a heaven or hell(which you are convienently forgetting) as a reason to not believe in it. You don't have a logical discourse to tell me that is wrong. [QUOTE]Since there is no way to provide evidence that either one of us is right, your word is no better than mine. I'm going to continue to believe heaven is a happy place based upon my experiences. I can't say why you'd want to believe heaven is a terrible place because that's all in your head. My last sentence is an exploit to that logic... If EITHER claim can't be proven to a reasonable degree, then there is no reason to spew your scientific mumbo jumbo in an attempt to disprove an afterlife. Just like there is no reason to spew Bible quotes in an attempt to prove there is an afterlife. Neither are very credible when used in this instance.[/QUOTE] This is not how logic works. That is not how "proof" works.

omg lol "scientific mumbo jumbo" are you even a real person or just a Poe.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42549460]What? I don't see what you're getting at... Sure, it's better to have a reason for your happiness. But it isn't going to feel any better if you're going by what I'm saying. Happiness is happiness. It shouldn't matter how or why. You know what? Yeah, I am being emotional about what I'd rather be true. Guess what? So are you! You'd rather have your afterlife be happy with a large side of depressing. I'd rather have mine be constantly happy. There is no difference here. Your sad interpretation doesn't make mine any less credible. When it comes down to these kinds of things, everything is twisted to what you WANT to believe. Since there is no way to provide evidence that either one of us is right, your word is no better than mine. I'm going to continue to believe heaven is a happy place based upon my experiences. I can't say why you'd want to believe heaven is a terrible place because that's all in your head. My last sentence is an exploit to that logic... If EITHER claim can't be proven to a reasonable degree, then there is no reason to spew your scientific mumbo jumbo in an attempt to disprove an afterlife. Just like there is no reason to spew Bible quotes in an attempt to prove there is an afterlife. Neither are very credible when used in this instance.[/QUOTE] What are you even arguing? We have a better understanding of how life works than no other. [editline]17th October 2013[/editline] How long can death keep you wondering?

I believe if you can get here from nothing once, why wouldn't it ever happen again? Just that you'll never know you ever existed before and will be a complete fresh start.

Well, technically, I don't believe in life after death. All of... Me is in my brain. I don't really think something like 'living after dying' could exist. I mean, I'm a living organism, I have conscious thoughts and feelings, but that's because I have a brain to think with. After I die, I believe there will be nothing. I just don't believe in some sort of mental power going outside my physical body. Maybe some sort of last mechanism before death, perhaps a brain event, if you will, that keeps me forever entrenched and trapped in my memories. This is, of course, coming from a 16 year old student who hasn't learned advanced biology.

[QUOTE=randomaccount;42554956]I believe if you can get here from nothing once, why wouldn't it ever happen again? Just that you'll never know you ever existed before and will be a complete fresh start.[/QUOTE] We're really nothing more than our memories, stored in our brains. Reincarnation really can't happen because we would be different people with different brains and different memories.

[QUOTE=randomaccount;42554956]I believe if you can get here from nothing once, why wouldn't it ever happen again? Just that you'll never know you ever existed before and will be a complete fresh start.[/QUOTE] But if it's a new body, brain, experience and memories, wouldn't that actually be a different person and not you at all?

Don't forget the multiverse/quantum immortality theory. That when you die, the universe actually splits in alternate ones. One where you die and one where you don't, and "you" survive in the second. Essentially you'd always stay alive from your own point of view, while alternate universes where you die would be constantly branching off. You'd just never see them. This is a terrifying concept though, because of obvious factors like aging and diseases. Even if there's one in a quintillion chance you'd live up to be a thousand years old as a barely functioning wreck with no bodily control, that's still enough for that particular universe to branch off and you'd stay "alive" even if you wanted to die. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality[/url] [img]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/quantum-immortality-1.gif[/img] [url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questions/quantum-suicide.htm[/url]

Dying isn't really a dead/not dead thing tho. It's a slow degeneration of the body both physically and mentally as your body succumbs to cancers, diseases, and general decline in health. There's a point where it's physically impossible for the body to function, so if you were say thrown into a pit of lava, you'd still die because the constituent parts of your body are breaking down and separating.

[QUOTE=H2OJesus;42548926]Honestly... I have been that happy. That's my "personal reason" I mentioned. I had a dream one time where it was seriously the MOST happy feeling you could ever imagine multiplied by 1,000. I even describe it as actually being in heaven. It was so powerful I actually took action to try and replicate the feeling as I felt as if it were "a sign from God."[/QUOTE] What were some things that happened in this dream exactly?