Do You Believe in 'Life after Death'? - General

[QUOTE=xZippy;42597081]Wait what now? How is animals existing "proof against an afterlife"..?[/QUOTE] No, just the fact that there are so many different ideas and views and versions of the afterlife, so that it almost like kills the whole idea of any of them being actually true. (Much like the God(s) really: there are so many of them, you can pick & choose your favorite, but it doesn't make any of them real.) [editline]21st October 2013[/editline] Or in other words, do dogs go to Heaven? Why, and why not? And then, we already have 2 versions of what is called 'Heaven,' out of which neither is more sensible than the other.

I don't believe in life as most people see it in the first place. The idea of individuals creates way too many problems.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42580266]You have to prove the afterlife exists. We start with nothing. If you make the statement X exists, you have to prove it.[/QUOTE] Some things intrinsically cannot be proven. For example; If there is an experience which by definition only an observer can experience, then that experience would be un-provable by definition. Before you get your empirical panties in a twist, let me use an analogy to elaborate, and then return to the topic at hand; -I, Zenreon, experience red as the color that I experience when I see a certain wavelength. -You, Sobotnik, experience red as the color that you experience when you see that same wavelength. Is there any way to prove that you, and I, see the same qualitative red? The answer is no, at least not yet. How does this relate? If I were to have an experience of the afterlife, by definition, I solely would be the experiencer of that. If I were to come back, the closest thing I could give you as far as proof would be to nearly kill you too that you may experience it for yourself. Similarly, the nearest to proof of 'red' can only be given if I send you to look at it's wavelength. Although even this cannot satisfy 'proof' for one who wishes to be empirical. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AGNnOk6dhA[/media]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;42603815]Some things intrinsically cannot be proven. For example; If there is an experience which by definition only an observer can experience, then that experience would be un-provable by definition. Before you get your empirical panties in a twist, let me use an analogy to elaborate, and then return to the topic at hand; -I, Zenreon, experience red as the color that I experience when I see a certain wavelength. -You, Sobotnik, experience red as the color that you experience when you see that same wavelength. Is there any way to prove that you, and I, see the same qualitative red? The answer is no, at least not yet.[/quote] Wrong. If that wavelength of light has the same wavelength, then by definition it is the same. Red is not defined with exact units, so of course you can't get a proper definition because nobody has been bothered properly defining it. Of course, science has tried to define it, and it has a wavelength band of around 620 to 740 nanometers. Arguing about what each person sees is pointless because it doesn't lead anywhere unless you start to make definitions for things. Similar philosophical arguments involve heaps of sand (how many grains makes a heap? it's pointless because heap isn't well-defined) and the squirrel/hunter and the tree. [quote]If I were to have an experience of the afterlife, by definition, I solely would be the experiencer of that. If I were to come back, the closest thing I could give you as far as proof would be to nearly kill you too that you may experience it for yourself. Similarly, the nearest to proof of 'red' can only be given if I send you to look at it's wavelength. Although even this cannot satisfy 'proof' for one who wishes to be empirical.[/quote] This isn't how it works. If you want evidence of the afterlife, you have to provide natural evidence. Thought must give way to hard evidence.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;42598314]No, just the fact that there are so many different ideas and views and versions of the afterlife, so that it almost like kills the whole idea of any of them being actually true.[/quote] That doesn't make sense. So multiple views and theories of an afterlife help prove that it doesn't exist because there are so many of them? If anything, that just makes imagining an afterlife harder due to so many views rather than just help prove it isn't there.

[QUOTE=xZippy;42605934]That doesn't make sense. So multiple views and theories of an afterlife help prove that it doesn't exist because there are so many of them? If anything, that just makes imagining an afterlife harder due to so many views rather than just help prove it isn't there.[/QUOTE] Well, how do you know which one is true? Which one has more evidence to support it?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42605942]Well, how do you know which one is true? Which one has more evidence to support it?[/QUOTE] Could anyone know? What I'm saying is that multiple views of something just adds more questions marks, but doesn't exactly act as disproof of something.

[QUOTE=xZippy;42606013]Could anyone know? What I'm saying is that multiple views of something just adds more questions marks, but doesn't exactly act as disproof of something.[/QUOTE] Not exactly perhaps, but it does support my skepticism towards the idea of afterlife very, very much.. To the point where it becomes irrelevant to our lives, because what are the odds of our generation finding out the truth about the afterlife, and not any of the generations before? Or after?

I belive so yes, I do not think afterlife can be proven by science. As it is impossible if you ask me. I'm not saying I'm right, at all. But death and the afterlife are very complexive things. You cant just put a "False" or "True" stamp on any of it I am faithful in god, and I belive that after I die my soul will enter purgatory and I will take responsebility for the sins I have done. So through most of my life I've tried not to sin and to be a good person. I dont consider this as "wishful thinking" but rather the actualy afterlife, and I doubt anyone could take my faith away from me

I believe that when you die, the awareness that you have doesn't simply vanish. It expands across infinity, and you get to experience every bit of it.

i can only simply say; I'd love to believe there is life after death, but no.

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;42965408]I believe that when you die, the awareness that you have doesn't simply vanish. It expands across infinity, and you get to experience every bit of it.[/QUOTE] Every bit of what, again? [QUOTE=mollow;43089048]i can only simply say; I'd love to believe there is life after death, but no.[/QUOTE] Well, I can simply say that life becomes death, becomes new life..

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;43099154]Every bit of what, again? Well, I can simply say that life becomes death, becomes new life..[/QUOTE] I'd love so much for rebirth to be possible. Like, if there isn't unlimited energy it gets reused to make new people and you're reborn but without the knowledge of a previous life. (Although there was that story about the boy who remembered his old life, [I]supposedly[/I])

[QUOTE=mollow;43099418]I'd love so much for rebirth to be possible. Like, if there isn't unlimited energy it gets reused to make new people and you're reborn but without the knowledge of a previous life. (Although there was that story about the boy who remembered his old life, [I]supposedly[/I])[/QUOTE] Interesting indeed, but I would say the significance of such story is literally zero considering the vast masses of people who don't remember dick about their previous lives, myself included.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;43102991]Interesting indeed, but I would say the significance of such story is literally zero considering the vast masses of people who don't remember dick about their previous lives, myself included.[/QUOTE] Ahhh yes, unfortunately. It is fun to continuously theorize on it though!

Yep, Believe we either go to Heaven or Hell

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43106515]Yep, Believe we either go to Heaven or Hell[/QUOTE] Curious, do you try and speculate earlier on if you're going to Heaven or Hell if you've done a significant amount of good or bad? Or is it more of a - [I]whatever happens, happens[/I] - type of thing?

[QUOTE=mollow;43110276]Curious, do you try and speculate earlier on if you're going to Heaven or Hell if you've done a significant amount of good or bad? Or is it more of a - [I]whatever happens, happens[/I] - type of thing?[/QUOTE] Well I do my best to do good and help people, and try to not be a bad person and hurt people. I try to stick to the seven heavenly virtues and stay away from the seven deadly sins. If you repent for doing bad and try to make up for it by doing good I belive you have a good shot of getting into heaven

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43106515]Yep, Believe we either go to Heaven or Hell[/QUOTE] No man deserves to go to hell. By definition it would be comparable to unimaginable evilness, so [i]nope[/i]. [editline]8th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Native Hunter;43114814]Well I do my best to do good and help people, and try to not be a bad person and hurt people. I try to stick to the seven heavenly virtues and stay away from the seven deadly sins. If you repent for doing bad and try to make up for it by doing good I belive you have a good shot of getting into heaven[/QUOTE] I can't believe that you're not seeing what they're trying to tell people with Heaven. It isn't about actually going into Heaven, or Hell, it's about being happy or at peace with yourself and your life (including family, friends, achievements, etc.) when you die. And that in itself is quite an achievement, a lot of people don't get to have that.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;43115286]No man deserves to go to hell. By definition it would be comparable to unimaginable evilness, so [i]nope[/i]. [editline]8th December 2013[/editline] I can't believe that you're not seeing what they're trying to tell people with Heaven. It isn't about actually going into Heaven, or Hell, it's about being happy or at peace with yourself and your life (including family, friends, achievements, etc.) when you die. And that in itself is quite an achievement, a lot of people don't get to have that.[/QUOTE] So your saying people like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pok, and other people who caused mass amounts of genocide and made peoples loves hell on earth dont deserve to go to hell? Also I do believe that there is a life after death, not that we all just die and rot in the ground. Heaven is for those who do good and hell os for those who do evil.

I wish there is life after death but I don't believe it.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43119868]So your saying people like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pok, and other people who caused mass amounts of genocide and made peoples loves hell on earth dont deserve to go to hell? Also I do believe that there is a life after death, not that we all just die and rot in the ground. Heaven is for those who do good and hell os for those who do evil.[/QUOTE] no, they don't deserve Hell. Sure, they might deserve some amount of suffering, but not eternal damnation. Literally nobody deserves that.

I'd like to imagine it would be like gmod, but like 1000x better.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43119868]So your saying people like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pok, and other people who caused mass amounts of genocide and made peoples loves hell on earth dont deserve to go to hell? Also I do believe that there is a life after death, not that we all just die and rot in the ground. Heaven is for those who do good and hell os for those who do evil.[/QUOTE] The "No man deserves to go to Hell" part was not so serious argument.. The one below it (after edit-automerge) is more of a serious argument. But alright then, like I established in my previous post, you clearly cannot see the point which they're trying tell people with the idea of going into Heaven, but you probably paid no mind to that bit.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43119868]So your saying people like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pok, and other people who caused mass amounts of genocide and made peoples loves hell on earth dont deserve to go to hell? Also I do believe that there is a life after death, not that we all just die and rot in the ground. Heaven is for those who do good and hell os for those who do evil.[/QUOTE] No finite crime ever deserves to be treated with an infinite punishment.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43119868]So your saying people like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pok, and other people who caused mass amounts of genocide and made peoples loves hell on earth dont deserve to go to hell?[/QUOTE] This god guy certainly topped them with the flood of noah. How come he gets a free pass? [QUOTE=Native Hunter;43119868]Also I do believe that there is a life after death, not that we all just die and rot in the ground. Heaven is for those who do good and hell os for those who do evil.[/QUOTE] Who chooses what's good and bad, what's right and what's wrong? And if so, why has it changed over the years without intervention from a deity?

[QUOTE=Jookia;43122096]This god guy certainly topped them with the flood of noah. How come he gets a free pass? Who chooses what's good and bad, what's right and what's wrong? And if so, why has it changed over the years without intervention from a deity?[/QUOTE] God should not have to step into the lives of man every single time somthing wrong happens. God set basic guidelines for us to follow, and so far they have developed into our laws and into our way of life. And by your reasoning you are saying that the laws/moral guidlines people have been following for milenia is wrong?

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43130238]God should not have to step into the lives of man every single time somthing wrong happens. God set basic guidelines for us to follow, and so far they have developed into our laws and into our way of life. And by your reasoning you are saying that the laws/moral guidlines people have been following for milenia is wrong?[/QUOTE] Before you reply to my posts, could you please read them. You failed to address every single question I asked, and instead replied with a response to a strawman.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;43130238]God should not have to step into the lives of man every single time somthing wrong happens. God set basic guidelines for us to follow, and so far they have developed into our laws and into our way of life. And by your reasoning you are saying that the laws/moral guidlines people have been following for milenia is wrong?[/QUOTE] You do realize that by saying [i]God[/i] set us basic guidelines to follow means that [i]People[/i] set us basic guidelines to follow? I don't know about strawmen but I think what you said is a clear logical fallacy. As for our current moral guidelines and laws, they could be a hell of a lot better in some places I suppose. It is we who make them and try to follow them, and everything really, including God and the idea of afterlife.

I'm not really sure if this counts as life after death, and this is probably a selfish way of thinking about it, but I like to think of it as Groundhog Day. The moment that you die, you are instantly warped [b]all[/b] the way back to when you first gain conscious. You retain [b]every[/b] bit of memory that you had on the previous life, so it's time-traveling-reincarnation. But this is where the selfish (and confusing) part comes into play; I have another belief that we all live in our own parallel universes, and since this would be mine, only I would have the GD-effect. Right now I made this post, but maybe when the reset happens, I might never make this post while the rest of the posts on here remain [b]exactly[/b] the same (unless said posts involve replying to this one). It's also possible that I'm just some person in someone else's parallel universe; that person might reply to this as "That's the weirdest belief I've heard" the first time, but when he gets his life reset and goes up to this point, I will act [b]exactly[/b] the same as before, even making this post, and he'll instead reply with "I kinda have that same belief as well...". It could be [b]anyone[/b], really; maybe it's Jookia and he doesn't allow profile comments because in his previous life, it just kept getting filled up with spam comments, which then led to spam PMs [i]afterwards[/i] concerning closing profile commenting. Maybe it's Autumn who was previously one of the most ruthless moderators of FacePunch and even got banned, eventually, for that reason, but after his first reset, learned from his mistakes. It could even be garry who might not even have made Garry's Mod before his first, few, or multiple resets, and instead was someone who worked as an employee at Nintendo! But at the same time, there is also a [b]very[/b] slim chance of mishap that someone else out there possess the same ability, so once both of us are dead, the reset happens at a point where whoever's age of consciousness is later (so if person A gained conscious at age 6, and person B gained conscious at age 5, both of them reset to age 6). [u]Summary:[/u] Parallel universes, Groundhog Day, either I'm in my own parallel universe or someone else's (and me not being aware of the latter), also possible to have someone else in the same universe get the GD-effect. It left a bad taste in my mouth and confused me just explaining it, but at the same time, I'm really oddly interested in this kind of topic, so... :v: