"Understanding the Zoepost" - Abuse Survivor's Look at Zoe Quinn - General

[QUOTE=bbddi;46042721]oh yeah and i remember you too, you're the guy that actually got upset over someone jokingly using the word "nerd" as if it carries any weight or significance, as if i walked onto a slave ship and started whipping black people letting the N word fly without discretion[/QUOTE] FALLACY! [sp]ad hominem[/sp] your a bad troll

[QUOTE=Holt!;46042735]I'm sick of seeing all this gamer gate shit everywhere like it's some amazing breaking news story. It's a controversy on the internet. Why does every aspect need to be forensicly examined with people giving their opinions on every tiny detail.[/QUOTE] Well a huge portion of the Internet doesn't understand that there was emotional abuse in the Zoepost. They just look at it and go "hoho Five Guys burgers & fries, amiright guys??? Zoe cheated on her boyfriend!!" Also, this is a really good case study for letting survivors understand emotional abuse. I must've gotten a bunch of PM's, DM's, and mentions from various survivors coming out to me and saying that they were looking at their relationships in a new light after the video. Generally speaking, there are a lot of conversations surrounding GG/Five Guys that have been overdone. Emotional abuse in the logs has hardly been discussed at all, or at least not in the detail that it deserves.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46038746]I don't want to go too much into it, I hope you'll understand. In my case, my abuser wasn't a boyfriend/girlfriend, but she behaved a LOT like Zoe. There was a lot of shifting responsibility, gaslighting, guilt tripping, and overbearing control. When I was older, there were even suicidal threats. I have fleas from that abuse (basically - abusive behavior rubbing off onto yourself), which ZQ also exhibits based on her own history with abuse. I've considered going back to therapy in order to get rid of them once and for all. The truth is, I actually have a lot in common with ZQ. So I'm talking about these things from the perspective of not just Eron, but also Zoe. I understand why someone would act like Zoe and hurt other people, so that gives me a leg up in doing these kind of videos. I'm just trying to turn that understanding into something positive and accessible for people who are unfamiliar with abuse. [/QUOTE] I can perfectly understand. I was just wanting to better understand your perspective because I've survived abusive relationships as well and from my perspective it looks more like Eron was the abusive one.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;46042907]I can perfectly understand. I was just wanting to better understand your perspective because I've survived abusive relationships as well and from my perspective it looks more like Eron was the abusive one.[/QUOTE] I can see why some people would make that conclusion based on the information being publicly shared. But if you dig into the logs and look at his citations, it becomes extremely clear that his post is actually a response to several months of emotional abuse. Good example: Zoe constantly uses suicidal threats to control Eron, like this one: [img]http://i.imgur.com/FKGJZbN.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Reimu;46042786]Well a huge portion of the Internet doesn't understand that there was emotional abuse in the Zoepost. They just look at it and go "hoho Five Guys burgers & fries, amiright guys??? Zoe cheated on her boyfriend!!" Also, this is a really good case study for letting survivors understand emotional abuse. I must've gotten a bunch of PM's, DM's, and mentions from various survivors coming out to me and saying that they were looking at their relationships in a new light after the video. Generally speaking, there are a lot of conversations surrounding GG/Five Guys that have been overdone. Emotional abuse in the logs has hardly been discussed at all, or at least not in the detail that it deserves.[/QUOTE] in a major way i think the gamergate idiots are far more awful than anyone defending zoe and shitting on eron, because they're consciously trying to take this and engineer it into a weird weapon to use against feminists/the media/whatever else. and when all you see from an issue is "THIS WOMAN IS A BITCH AND FUCKED FIVE GUYS WHAT A WHORE" everywhere, you can't really blame people for getting defensive, especially if the original post doesn't even come up. [editline]21st September 2014[/editline] and the importance starts to come in when you see that zoe is most known for depression quest, she's something of a mental health activist in the gaming community yet she's fully willing to play on others' mental illnesses to get what she wants according to the original post. i'm not deluded enough to believe that she's "powerful" in any particular way but she does have influence in certain circles, circles where the issue of abuse is very relevant to many people and so this information deserves to come to light

There are problems with #GamerGate, but I also think Zoe and her enablers are using GG to deflect attention to the abuse in the original Zoepost. I also have zero confidence that anyone will take this issue up post-GamerGate. So if there's a time to do it, it feels like now is the best time to get the word out. Also, I had a couple people come out to me and tell me their own stories about abuse within the video game industry. A lot of people connected to ZQ are also abusers. I'm really scared that that network is going to continue to exist one year from now, and, again, I'm positive no one will bother speaking out about it. The least I can do is amplify Eron's experiences so a.) people know abuse happened, and b.) people can begin to understand why it's abuse.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46043194][b]There are problems with #GamerGate, but I also think Zoe and her enablers are using GG to deflect attention to the abuse in the original Zoepost.[/b] I also have zero confidence that anyone will take this issue up post-GamerGate. So if there's a time to do it, it feels like now is the best time to get the word out. Also, I had a couple people come out to me and tell me their own stories about abuse within the video game industry. A lot of people connected to ZQ are also abusers. I'm really scared that that network is going to continue to exist one year from now, and, again, I'm positive no one will bother speaking out about it. The least I can do is amplify Eron's experiences so a.) people know abuse happened, and b.) people can begin to understand why it's abuse.[/QUOTE] The sad thing is they don't really have to. Everyone's more interested in conspiracy theories and "lol fiveguys whore" than this. Honestly I think if anything Zoe's supporters may have the opposite effect since they're trying to keep the scope of attention around the attacks directed at her, and thus her herself.

sorry, didn't mean to seem like i was arguing against you in some way, just quoted you because

Everything else aside, I think it's important that we examine abusive behavior in context and understand why it's abusive. A lot of this stuff is commonplace, and a lot of the time we do it without noticing. If all this video does in the end is give someone a different perspective on how their actions affect others, that would be a huge accomplishment in my book.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;46043104]and when all you see from an issue is "THIS WOMAN IS A BITCH AND FUCKED FIVE GUYS WHAT A WHORE" everywhere, you can't really blame people for getting defensive[/QUOTE] At this point I have to ask... Why is that -all- you see about this issue? Hasn't anyone given you any reason for being angry/interested in this thing other than "woman had sex"?

[QUOTE=leoshig;46043534]At this point I have to ask... Why is that -all- you see about this issue? Hasn't anyone given you any reason for being angry/interested in this thing other than "woman had sex"?[/QUOTE] at this point i have to ask, why is that all you read from my post?

Also, someone linked my video to Dina, and this exchange with her happened: [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/421tcFO.png[/thumb] Still waiting on her to respond without turning my concern into a joke.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;46044141]at this point i have to ask, why is that all you read from my post?[/QUOTE] I read that post in full. I quoted only that part because that would make a smoother segway into the question. Did I ignore something you said?

[QUOTE=Reimu;46037073]Sorry, I deleted it. These things snowball really fast and I wanted to shut it down before I end up with 50 notes calling me a predator because I dared to out an abuser.[/QUOTE] If you only care about not getting the notes, you can also use xkit for that iirc. (The reblogged ones stay up anyway, so it's not that easily possible to stop a cascade of this stuff.) Tumblr is such a mess.

I was in an emotionally abusive relationship, and it wasn't up until months later that I came across a lot of this information and it hit me that I was. It left a few scars. I hate exaggerating how bad it fucked me up but it's stuff I still think about today. Gaslighting, blame shifting, all of that happened to me and I didn't even realize it. When I saw all of these things and realized it all happened to me I was on the verge of tears. I'm still really afraid of getting attached to people romantically because I'm afraid I'll either hurt them, get hurt, or they'll find me annoying and leave. I'm still friends with that person because I guess we just work better as friends. But fuck, I think about that time and it was just so painfully dark. Like every day I doubted myself. There are so many stories. She called me up drunk once and claimed that I might be using her for sex. Then immediately said repeatedly that she loved me. Later broke up with me 3 times. After it was over I was emotionally distant for months. I didn't want to show my feelings to anyone. Any crushes I had on anyone else were internalized. And sometimes when I have doubtful thoughts, I can swear it's in her voice. I go back to old arguments a lot still trying to defend myself. There's just so much shit she did to me passively when I think about it. So I can personally relate to all this and reading all of this pisses me off so bad because it's so annoying that someone can do all of this and not just face the truth and admit that they're wrong. Even though I completely understand why. Having a fucked up past will undoubtedly fuck you up.

this kinda extends to the entire SJW community on tumblr, most of them are emotionally abusive with a cultlike mentality that will force you into their mindset or youre a horrible person

[QUOTE=dvc;46048662]this kinda extends to the entire SJW community on tumblr, most of them are emotionally abusive with a cultlike mentality that will force you into their mindset or youre a horrible person[/QUOTE] Dealt with an ex like this. He'd be normal one second and then the moment I disagreed with him it was "why are you defending horrible people by liking south park????" He literally threw a fit over me liking South Park.

[QUOTE=xxncxx;46050156]Dealt with an ex like this. He'd be normal one second and then the moment I disagreed with him it was "why are you defending horrible people by liking south park????" He literally threw a fit over me liking South Park.[/QUOTE] This is one of the reasons why I distanced myself from tumblr SJ a year ago. There is a healthy way to call out problematic content and ask loved ones to be critical of media. Guilt tripping them is [b]not healthy[/b]. No amount of moral righteousness makes those means acceptable. The means must justify the ends, not vice-versa. If you are using abuse tactics to push for equality and representation, what do you [i]think[/i] is going to happen??

Over the year there's actually been a backlash by general tumblr users against SJWs and Otherkin type folks who've been just generally getting worse within their own echochambers. Its kinda beautiful to watch.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46050260]Its kinda beautiful to watch.[/QUOTE] I disagree. I mean yeah I dislike abusive people as much as the next person, but as someone who was emotionally abused my entire life, I know that a lot of people don't do it on purpose. They don't see their abusive tendencies as abuse. Hell, I was incredibly abusive to my ex, and I never considered it abuse. It wasn't until I started researching emotionally abusive tendencies that I realized how shitty a person I truly am. Applying your logic, I should hate myself for everything I've done, which is essentially the entire package constantly mentioned here (gaslighting, guilt tripping, general douchebaggery). But I don't, just as I don't hate abusers (although further context is required depending on the type of abuse in question, as well as the abusers acknowledgement of said abuse.) I just think they need good guidance. They need to be shown that their SJ methods are actually the opposite of what they're fighting for. Telling them in an effective manner is a whole other can of beans, though. All in all, abuse is never admissible. It's never a good thing. However, even consistent abusers likely suffer abuse themselves. I think that's something we need to be mindful of when discussing this issue. I dunno I'm just in a bad mood... [editline]23rd September 2014[/editline] To further clarify, I think hating SJWs for their counter intuitive methods is silly. Their influence diminishing is definitely a good thing. I just can't read lol

At the 36 minute mark Eron says this:"I have been worrying too much about you to worry about myself".(or something along those lines) I feel like that line is SO indicative of all the guilt-tripping and blame-shifting Zoe pulled on him, but Reimu weirdly decided to not comment on it at all. btw great video so far reimu!

[QUOTE=leoshig;46052248]I feel like that line is SO indicative of all the guilt-tripping and blame-shifting Zoe pulled on him, but Reimu weirdly decided to not comment on it at all. btw great video so far reimu![/QUOTE] Sorry about that & thanks for pointing it out! I focused really hard on Zoe without even talking about how Eron felt and how he responded, so to speak. But thank you! Glad you liked it!

I'm relatively new to this whole situation, I've just now bothered to check it out. I don't really know how to react that won't offend people here or anywhere. But yeah, this video was dead on. While the whole "gaming journalism" thing doesn't affect me as much for reasons I really am not enthusiastic enough to explain, I think it's amazing that such an abuser gains more attention than the victim himself.

[QUOTE=Water-Marine;46053144]I'm relatively new to this whole situation, I've just now bothered to check it out. I don't really know how to react that won't offend people here or anywhere. But yeah, this video was dead on. While the whole "gaming journalism" thing doesn't affect me as much for reasons I really am not enthusiastic enough to explain, I think it's amazing that such an abuser gains more attention than the victim himself.[/QUOTE] Dont be afraid to react due to someone being offended, that is kind of a part of gamergate.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46053259]Dont be afraid to react due to someone being offended, that is kind of a part of gamergate.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but it seems kinda difficult to argue when you've got groups arguing against something entirely contrary to the actual situation(such as people making this a "feminism thing" instead of what it really is)

wait so sorry to derail a bit but you said in the video stuff like "you make me happy" is unhealthy, me and my partner say this a lot but we have a very open and healthy relationship otherwise, should we stop doing that?

No, it's not that! It's when your other partner emphasizes that you are solely and inherently responsible for all the happiness they have in their life, and that their life would crumble if you left them. I think this is a very subtle and contextual shifting of responsibility, and needs to be seen in relation to other patterns of behavior. The context of Zoe and Erin's argunent is key: Zoe blamed Eron for a perceived possibility of infidelity, guilted him into isolating himself from his friend, and then she emphasized how her happiness relied on Eron for her own stability in life. It's very overbearing and controlling, whereas your situation is healthy because your happiness in life is not dependant on the other person.

You can't place [B]all[/B] of the responsibility of your happiness on your partner. [editline]23rd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=blerb;46051929]I disagree. I mean yeah I dislike abusive people as much as the next person, but as someone who was emotionally abused my entire life, I know that a lot of people don't do it on purpose. They don't see their abusive tendencies as abuse. Hell, I was incredibly abusive to my ex, and I never considered it abuse. It wasn't until I started researching emotionally abusive tendencies that I realized how shitty a person I truly am. Applying your logic, I should hate myself for everything I've done, which is essentially the entire package constantly mentioned here (gaslighting, guilt tripping, general douchebaggery). But I don't, just as I don't hate abusers (although further context is required depending on the type of abuse in question, as well as the abusers acknowledgement of said abuse.) I just think they need good guidance. They need to be shown that their SJ methods are actually the opposite of what they're fighting for. Telling them in an effective manner is a whole other can of beans, though. All in all, abuse is never admissible. It's never a good thing. However, even consistent abusers likely suffer abuse themselves. I think that's something we need to be mindful of when discussing this issue. I dunno I'm just in a bad mood... [editline]23rd September 2014[/editline] To further clarify, I think hating SJWs for their counter intuitive methods is silly. Their influence diminishing is definitely a good thing. I just can't read lol[/QUOTE] To be frank, I'm more annoyed with the enablers and those defending Quinn then I am mad at Quinn herself. Abusive behavior is something you learn, so whatever she went through before that must've been hell.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46057791]You can't place [B]all[/B] of the responsibility of your happiness on your partner. [editline]23rd September 2014[/editline] To be frank, I'm more annoyed with the enablers and those defending Quinn then I am mad at Quinn herself. Abusive behavior is something you learn, so whatever she went through before that must've been hell.[/QUOTE] Or perhaps she is a manipulative person who does it on purpose.

Her and Maya are just as guilty, they knew exactly what their behavior wrought and [I]continued to do it[/I]. They both fully understood from both sides of the coin the ramifications of their actions and CONTINUED to not only continue, but [I]escalated[/I] the behavior into their professional lives with a full understanding of what it would not only do to females working their asses off in the same professional arena but what it would do to gaming in general. Wrong is wrong, and they understood what and how wrong.