• Book review of the communist manifesto
    304 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Melnek;22930308]You people always lust for your precious freedom so much that you constantly overlook the fact that freedom in its purest form will tear society apart. Freedom in its purest form is a one way ticket to utter chaos and anarchy. It will cause so much damage that you wouldn't even imagine. Yet you refuse to look at the bigger picture and just constantly shove down everyone's throat "I WANT MY FREEDOM!!!1". Stop for a second and realize, that your beloved 'freedom' is your worst enemy. [b]Human beings aren't supposed be free[/b], if they are free they are uncontrollable, the system can't punish everyone if everyone is different and is free. And if people are nonpunishable then we shall never learn from our fatal mistakes and that will just spiral down to our very own extinction.[/QUOTE] I really hope that was satirical. Your like a caricature of communists that religious conservatives of the 1950's would think up. At least your honest though, most communists/socialists will try and define "true" freedom in some terms which describe slavery. At least you do away with the pretense and make clear your rooting for dictatorship.
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931206]There are no businesses. There is no income. Life in that society doesn't revolve around work.[/QUOTE] wait... what? What does it revolve around then?
[QUOTE=Earthen;22931343]wait... what? What does it revolve around then?[/QUOTE] Whatever you want it to. By getting rid of materialism you don't have to spend all your time worrying about your job and you spend your time doing what you've always wanted
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931206]There are no businesses. There is no income. Life in that society doesn't revolve around work.[/QUOTE] How does anything get done? I suppose you expect me to believe those in power are piss poor too? [editline]03:35PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931370]Whatever you want it to. By getting rid of materialism you don't have to spend all your time worrying about your job and you spend your time doing what [B]you've always wanted[/B][/QUOTE] Unless that is owning a business I suppose. What if I want to open a restaurant or a bakery or something? Not all businesses are giant corporations.
[QUOTE=OvB;22931384]How does anything get done? I suppose you expect me to believe those in power are piss poor too?[/QUOTE] There is work, there is no income though. They do the work for everybody and equally give their products to the people. However, there isn't useless shit being distributed, there's stuff like electricity, water, food, healthcare, etc. Then when you go home after work, you do whatever you want. Ideal communism has no government but I admit that's a bit of a stretch, so it's really designed to work with a republic or democracy. [quote]Unless that is owning a business I suppose. What if I want to open a restaurant or a bakery or something? Not all businesses are giant corporations.[/quote] You can be the manager of a restaurant. Just don't expect income.
[QUOTE=Novistador;22931297]I really hope that was satirical.[/QUOTE] No, it wasn't. And if you'd actually continue reading and not just quickly jump on things you find wrong then you would understand why it wasn't satirical. Plus, that was just bad wording on my part. English isn't my native language.
I'd like to disassociate myself with Melnek. We don't exactly think the same way.
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931370]Whatever you want it to. By getting rid of materialism you don't have to spend all your time worrying about your job and you spend your time doing what you've always wanted[/QUOTE] I think your seriously misunderstanding something if you think communism isn't a materialist philosopy, it is [b]THE[/b] materialist philosophy. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism"]Dialectic Materialism[/url]
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931496]I'd like to disassociate myself with Melnek. We don't exactly think the same way.[/QUOTE] who are you
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931370]Whatever you want it to. By getting rid of materialism you don't have to spend all your time worrying about your job and you spend your time doing what you've always wanted[/QUOTE] wow sounds like every idyllic fantasy ever
[QUOTE=Novistador;22931497]I think your seriously misunderstanding something if you think communism isn't a materialist philosopy, it is THE materialist philosophy. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism[/url] Dialectic Materialism[/QUOTE] I'm not a marxist. I'm more of a ho-chi-minh-ist.
You present some legit points but I have one problem with what you said: [QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22927779]So the communist manifesto. Pretty big fucking deal, [B]as it inspired the most evil government known to mankind: The USSR.[/B][/QUOTE] Is that statement based on what your teacher told you in history class?
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931427]There is work, there is no income though. They do the work for everybody and equally give their products to the people. However, there isn't useless shit being distributed, there's stuff like electricity, water, food, healthcare, etc. Then when you go home after work, you do whatever you want. Ideal communism has no government but I admit that's a bit of a stretch, so it's really designed to work with a republic or democracy. You can be the manager of a restaurant. Just don't expect income.[/QUOTE] Next question: How well of a quality of living could one expect? Would we all be living in a shabby tenement, or a nice suburb? Considering everyone is equal, I'd think in large populations one would be hard pressed to provide a good place to live for EVERYONE.
[QUOTE=Melnek;22931472]No, it wasn't. And if you'd actually continue reading and not just quickly jump on things you find wrong then you would understand why it wasn't satirical. Plus, that was just bad wording on my part. English isn't my native language.[/QUOTE] I read your entire post and understood it fully. Your either severely misunderstanding the concept of freedom, and its effects and implications. or Your actually advocating dictatorship for some reason or another.
[QUOTE=OvB;22931617]Next question: How well of a quality of living could one expect? Would we all be living in a shabby tenement, or a nice suburb? Considering everyone is equal, I'd think in large populations one would be hard pressed to provide a good place to live for EVERYONE.[/QUOTE] It really comes down to how everyone lived and under which circumstances. For example my father lived during the Soviet Union days and communism treated him well, so he doesn't have anything against that. Some other person could say that it totally fucked his life over. It's just not that black and white as some people make it. Communism isn't bad nor is it good. It really depends on time, location and under which circumstances it is applied.
spoiler alerts communism totally dies at the end :smug:
[QUOTE=Novistador;22931724]I read your entire post and understood it fully. Your either severely misunderstanding the concept of freedom, and its effects and implications. or Your actually advocating dictatorship for some reason or another.[/QUOTE] Read thread, I've already said that I mean utter freedom without any types of governments, not just your simple everyday freedom.
[QUOTE=Earthen;22929360]In addition to this comment why should some random guy on the street receive the money of some other guy who used all the money he had to make a company, which actually worked out really well? Especially when that random guy on the street hasn't contributed at all to the success of the company?[/QUOTE] You're a horrible peace-hating person :words: But seriously, when I mow a lawn and make $20, who the fuck can tell me that money belongs equally to the guy next door who doesn't even know me? Most of the kids on Facepunch are either anti-government or pro-communism :irony:
Market Socialism is the best form of economy imo. True communism has never been practiced at a country level and never will be unless we evolve into some all-loving benevolent species. It's just an unreachable dream.
[QUOTE=Melnek;22931786]Read thread, I've already said that I mean utter freedom without any types of governments, not just your simple everyday freedom.[/QUOTE] I have read the thread, however your implication seems to be that the state is necessary to keep people from being too free. I contend the opposite, that government is necessary for the sole purpose of protecting freedom, of defending individual rights through the use of retaliatory force. The state exists to expel force from human relations, to ensure that they are free from force, or the threat thereof. The state that occurs when force is absent, and men interact by voluntary agreement as opposed to physical coercion is known as freedom. A government that takes on the job of protecting you from your freedom is called dictatorship.
[QUOTE=Melnek;22930308]You people always lust for your precious freedom so much that you constantly overlook the fact that freedom in its purest form will tear society apart. Freedom in its purest form is a one way ticket to utter chaos and anarchy. It will cause so much damage that you wouldn't even imagine. Yet you refuse to look at the bigger picture and just constantly shove down everyone's throat "I WANT MY FREEDOM!!!1". Stop for a second and realize, that your beloved 'freedom' is your worst enemy. Human beings aren't supposed be free, if they are free they are uncontrollable, the system can't punish everyone if everyone is different and is free. And if people are nonpunishable then we shall never learn from our fatal mistakes and that will just spiral down to our very own extinction.[/QUOTE] This is true, but the concept of freedom that we understand today is different from complete anarchy.
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931370]Whatever you want it to. By getting rid of materialism you don't have to spend all your time worrying about your job and you spend your time doing what you've always wanted[/QUOTE] What if people have always wanted to buy cars? like actually buying them...? [editline]09:58PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22931427]There is work, there is no income though. They do the work for everybody and equally give their products to the people. However, there isn't useless shit being distributed, there's stuff like electricity, water, food, healthcare, etc. Then when you go home after work, you do whatever you want. Ideal communism has no government but I admit that's a bit of a stretch, so it's really designed to work with a republic or democracy. You can be the manager of a restaurant. Just don't expect income.[/QUOTE] Why the fuck should I give my bread to someone else. Its my bread, I made it, I can do what I want with it. Its the same with money. If you work for a living and made money. So be it, do what you want with your money.
I like how Earthen, as he argues against Communism, is providing the perfect example of why unregulated Capitalism is an equally bad idea.
[QUOTE=TH89;22933678]I like how Earthen, as he argues against Communism, is providing the perfect example of why unregulated Capitalism is an equally bad idea.[/QUOTE] Explain I mean unregulated capitalism is basically Somalia, buy what you want, sell what you want, make as much money as you want. Of course that is a bad idea. Regulations are necessary to an extent naturally.
[QUOTE=Earthen;22933845]Explain I mean unregulated capitalism is basically Somalia, buy what you want, sell what you want, make as much money as you want. Of course that is a bad idea. Regulations are necessary to an extent naturally.[/QUOTE] Somalia is anarchy, there is no government, and if there is its unable to enforce the law in any meaningful way. Somalia is in no way a capitalist country, it is an absurd equivocation to compare the war torn anarchy that is Somalia to a rights respecting capitalist country with a competent military and police force. Anarcho-capitalism is about just as silly as Anarcho-communism.
I like OP, he knows what he's talking about and agrees more or less with my interpretation of the Manifesto and other works by Marx.
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22927779]he wanted essentially Canada. A free, socialist country.[/QUOTE] Apparently Canada is more economically right than the USA [url]http://www.heritage.org/index/[/url] Woot
[QUOTE=archie200034;22928081]communism is awful and if you even like it remotely you are awful :colbert: and that book is pretty awful too[/QUOTE] derp.
Communism's only and ultimate downfall is that it doesn't reward hard work. When people say, "It hasn't been done right," that is what they're referring to. Capitalism isn't good either because it rewards shortcuts and lying. [editline]06:43PM[/editline] i.e. BP
[QUOTE=Rick Ross;22934439]Capitalism isn't good either because it rewards shortcuts and lying.[/QUOTE] No, because the government is supposed to fill it's actual role and stop that shit, instead they get in bed with the corporations and have things like limited liability.
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