[QUOTE=Paravin;22946505]Communism works in theory. It doesn't work in life because people are pricks.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JerryK;22947358]Communism is great on paper, horrible in real life[/QUOTE]
Ugh, I hear this all the bloody time. If it doesn't work in real life what use is it?
From what i have read and heard of communism. i kinda like it :/
But i think that the problem with former communist powers, is the leaders.
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.
Karl Marx
I have no problem with that idea.
[QUOTE=Happy Goblin;22947500]From what i have read and heard of communism. i kinda like it :/
But i think that the problem with former communist powers, is the leaders.
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.
Karl Marx
I have no problem with that idea.[/QUOTE]
So you have no problem with random strangers sharing your kitchen, bedroom, car, etc...?
[QUOTE]So you have no problem with random strangers sharing your kitchen, bedroom, car, etc...?[/QUOTE]
In the context of Communism, Private Property does not equal material possessions (which is personal property), but the means of production.
I totally agree with everyone. Communism is horrible. I mean it's what created that monster Mao Zedong whom killed 78 million people and formed the PRC.(Which to me is worse than the USSR.)
If I Hear ANYONE talking about turning this forum communist, than I hope Garry Strikes you down with lightening.
How can you judge people just because of their oppinions?
If i like the idea of communism. then let me do that.
Its not like im gonna try and make you one too.
[QUOTE=zenhorse;22948090]
If I Hear ANYONE talking about turning this forum communist, than I hope Garry Strikes you down with lightening.[/QUOTE]
This is not how the internet works. You can't 'turn' a forum communist and Garry isn't Zeus.
Communism doesn't even work in theory, let alone reality.
It's economically bogus, and the only type of growth it ever promotes is liver spots and moles upon the faces of it's Politicians.
[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4742002949_933aa72718.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4742002977_3b25d7bb96_b.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=zenhorse;22948090]I totally agree with everyone. Communism is horrible. I mean it's what created that monster Mao Zedong whom killed 78 million people and formed the PRC.(Which to me is worse than the USSR.)
If I Hear ANYONE talking about turning this forum communist, than I hope Garry Strikes you down with lightening.[/QUOTE]
That was mao tse tung and he is extremely capitalist.
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22950294]That was mao tse tung and he is extremely capitalist.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong]No it wasn't[/url]
[QUOTE=archie200034;22950875][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong]No it wasn't[/url][/QUOTE]
Yep. And He wasn't capital in any way.
[QUOTE=archie200034;22950875][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong"]No it wasn't[/URL][/QUOTE]
Same person, the fuck does it matter?
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22952106]Same person, the fuck does it matter?[/QUOTE]
You were wrong, Mao drove that shit into the ground too. I guess all those People's Communes that failed after months were part of his capitalism overhaul, hm?
But again, every single real-life example of communism ever has been :regd08:, it does not work and it never will work.
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22950294]That was mao tse tung and he is extremely capitalist.[/QUOTE]
If you think Mao Tse Tung was a shining example of capitalism, you clearly have no idea what capitalism is. Next you'll be telling me that Adolf Hitler was really an Anarchist.
[QUOTE=Happy Goblin;22948127]How can you judge people just because of their oppinions?
If i like the idea of communism. then let me do that.
Its not like im gonna try and make you one too.[/QUOTE]
Your not going to try and make other people communists too?,
because propaganda was never a major part of communist states.
And I'm sure that all the wealthy people and business owners will be asked politely before their property is redistributed among the workers.
And taxes are always collected voluntarily right?
Lets not mention that those who would spread ideas that might threaten the future establishment of a "pure", "stateless" communist state will only be respectfully asked to hold their tongues.
The point here is that there is no voluntary co operation under communism, only forceful coercion, so your argument of "its not like I'm trying to force you to do anything" is terrible, you want to rob everyone of everything they own.
[QUOTE=Luuper;22928412]Define most evil government
I would argue that people like the Mongol empire would be worse[/QUOTE]
As a governing body the Mongol empire was quite nice, banning torture, free religion, choosing own officials, etc. But when the army was on the move you best get out of the way
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;22928417]Communism is when everybody shares. Simple as that. There is no more money to show for anything, and there is an anarchy in that people cooperate and don't need a leader.[/QUOTE]
It can't possibly work though because some people will have more important, harder, or jobs that require more education and when they realize that it's not fair they get the same pay as a ditch digger then they will simply leave the country.
Even on paper or as an idea it's completely flawed.
[QUOTE=zenhorse;22948090]I totally agree with everyone. Communism is horrible. I mean it's what created that monster Mao Zedong whom killed 78 million people and formed the PRC.(Which to me is worse than the USSR.)
If I Hear ANYONE talking about turning this forum communist, than I hope Garry Strikes you down with lightening.[/QUOTE]
People corrupt power not the other way around, bro, don't blame Mao on communism.
[QUOTE=AwpersAreBad;22958084]People corrupt power not the other way around, bro, don't blame Mao on communism.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, however there are some powers, that people have no business having over others, much less exerting "uncorruptedly".
This idea is known as rights and it is what communism totally ignores.
[QUOTE=Happy Goblin;22947414]I can't remember how it is in english.
But i think there was somewhere they wrote something like, Work as you are capable, and enjoy what you need.
And no. This! is the thread music! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUy8uX7thJ4[/media][/QUOTE]
Duuuudeeee!!! Brings back memories...hearing it as i conquered New York, oh right I mean Commandergrad.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;22957713]It can't possibly work though because some people will have more important, harder, or jobs that require more education and when they realize that it's not fair they get the same pay as a ditch digger then they will simply leave the country.
Even on paper or as an idea it's completely flawed.[/QUOTE]
[quote=Critique of the Gotha Programme Part One;434343]
Hence, equal right here is still in principle -- bourgeois right, although principle and practice are no longer at loggerheads, while the exchange of equivalents in commodity exchange exists only on the average and not in the individual case.
In spite of this advance, this equal right is still constantly stigmatized by a bourgeois limitation. The right of the producers is proportional to the labor they supply; the equality consists in the fact that measurement is made with an equal standard, labor.
But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only -- for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.[/quote]
you know something is wrong when even marx argues against equal pay (which even isn't how it worked historically).
for marx, you were paid according to how much you produced.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Earthen;22946805]If you gave them a chance to get more money, I'm sure they would be even happier.
[editline]10:15AM[/editline]
Whoa dude awesome argument!
Actually have a point instead of just calling people idiots.
[editline]10:16AM[/editline]
No people just enjoy having their own things. If you call that selfishness then you need to get a reality check[/QUOTE]
dude you have been ruined on this argument more times then I can remember, give the fuck up
[editline]08:38AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Earthen;22947696]So you have no problem with random strangers sharing your kitchen, bedroom, car, etc...?[/QUOTE]
uh... communism calls for this?
and i don't mind people using my bathroom, you need it, you fucking need it
[editline]08:39AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=zenhorse;22948090]I totally agree with everyone. Communism is horrible. I mean it's what created that monster Mao Zedong whom killed 78 million people and formed the PRC.(Which to me is worse than the USSR.)
If I Hear ANYONE talking about turning this forum communist, than I hope Garry Strikes you down with lightening.[/QUOTE]
mao wasn't communist
[QUOTE=Warhol;22972964]dude you have been ruined on this argument more times then I can remember, give the fuck up
[editline]08:38AM[/editline]
uh... communism calls for this?
and i don't mind people using my bathroom, you need it, you fucking need it
[editline]08:39AM[/editline]
mao wasn't communist[/QUOTE]
When have I been ruined on that argument?
Communism does call for it, fuck I'd hate for some random guy off the street to just start using my kitchen. He has no right to do that.
[QUOTE=archie200034;22946336]Wow really, am I? Thank you mysteryman, your post has made my life take a new direction and i now see the error of my ways.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, You're an asshole.
[QUOTE=OvB;22928681]How do people keep the incentive to work? If everyone is sharing with people, are people going to work? We work for money, not for the sake of working.[/QUOTE]
Marx also wrote of alienated labor. It is possible to enjoy your job if you take pride in your work and the way your work improves society. If you enjoy your work and take emotional satisfaction from it, ie. you are not alienated in your labor, and you have your needs met through communal sharing of goods, then you have all the compensation you need for your labor.
Not hating your job, it's a radical concept to a lot of people, i know
Perhaps here is a forum you might be interested at looking at...
Revolutionary Left
[url]http://www.revleft.com/vb/[/url]
[QUOTE=Earthen;22973046]When have I been ruined on that argument?
Communism does call for it, fuck I'd hate for some random guy off the street to just start using my kitchen. He has no right to do that.[/QUOTE]
where? please quote a political publication that says that
you also ignored my request for a quote that says innocents must die in communism.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22973271]where? please quote a political publication that says that
you also ignored my request for a quote that says innocents must die in communism.[/QUOTE]
Murder of innocents, well its implied but seems to always have been brought about through murder of innocents: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism[/url] (point 3)
Quote for communal living: do I really need one? just look up communes
[QUOTE]Communism does call for it, fuck I'd hate for some random guy off the street to just start using my kitchen. He has no right to do that.[/QUOTE]
As I said before, when Marx talks about Private Property he is talking about the means of production, NOT the things that you own. These, in Marx's terminology, are known as Personal Property, and he says in the Communist Manifesto that Communists are not opposed to personal property that is "hard-won, self-acquired, self-earned" by the proletariat.
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