• US Election 2008 - Play Hoop for Democracy
    3,755 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gmans Granny]One thing i find good with Obama is that he'll stop using all the fucking money for the military. [b]IT'S TIME TO GET OUT OF IRAQ[/b] I mean hasn't the world learnt anything since all wars? For example, the fall of the Soviet Union. The biggest reason why it fell was because they put every single penny they had for weapons instead of harvesting all the fucking oil and other shit they have.[/QUOTE] Hell, go a bit earlier in history. Sun Tzu has the right idea on a lot of stuff, as taken from the second chapter of "The Art of War": [QUOTE=The Art of War] 2. [b]When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped.[/b] If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. 3. Again, [b]if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.[/b] 4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue. 5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, [b]cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.[/b] 6. [highlight][b]There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.[/b][/highlight] 7. [b]It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.[/b] [/QUOTE] Bolded what it seems like the current administration forgot.
[QUOTE=mephis]Change change change change¯ ™® That's why. His tax plan looks similar to socialism to me. And don't call me a hypocrite for saying that because I saw the bailout as socialism as well. I've always viewed the furthest left as socialist. And Obama is as far left as it gets, even more so than Nancy Pelosi.[/QUOTE] So what if it is socialism? I really don't understand why so many Americans are petrified of it. Do they think a socialist tax plan will turn America into the Soviet Union or something? Seriously socialism does not equal communism.
**Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year. If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options. **Pay Inequity Continues: For every $1.00 earned by a man, the average woman receives only 77 cents, while African American women only get 67 cents and Latinas receive only 57 cents. Obama's plan is to make everyone equal in earning by strengthening the federal hate crimes legislation. Expect to see rich mexicans with [i]ACTUAL[/i] jobs now. **Obama and Biden believe that we must build up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply; invest in foreign language training, cultural awareness, and human intelligence and other needed counterinsurgency and stabilization skill sets; and create a more robust capacity to train, equip, and advise foreign security forces, so that local allies are better prepared to confront mutual threats. **[b]Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families:[/b] Obama and Biden will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama and Biden will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans, Also Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000 and Provide $50 billion to Jumpstart the Economy and Prevent 1 Million Americans from Losing Their Jobs. **[b]He also plans to raise minimum wage to 9.50 dollars an hour by 2011, FUCK YEA[/b] Goddamn look at that sexy president. [img]http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/11_obama_lg.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=James*]So what if it is socialism? I really don't understand why so many Americans are petrified of it. Do they think a socialist tax plan will turn America into the Soviet Union or something? Seriously socialism does not equal communism.[/QUOTE] don't say that, mephis will go into a fit explaining how socialism DOES equal communism and ruin this thread
[QUOTE=Gmans Granny]One thing i find good with Obama is that he'll stop using all the fucking money for the military. [b]IT'S TIME TO GET OUT OF IRAQ[/b] I mean hasn't the world learnt anything since all wars? For example, the fall of the Soviet Union. The biggest reason why it fell was because they put every single penny they had for weapons instead of harvesting all the fucking oil and other shit they have.[/QUOTE] McCain wanted to get out of Iraq too fyi. He just had a different plan on how to do so.
[QUOTE=James*]So what if it is socialism? I really don't understand why so many Americans are petrified of it. Do they think a socialist tax plan will turn America into the Soviet Union or something? Seriously socialism does not equal communism.[/QUOTE] Because socialism's evil to those that value their right of self-ownership. Doesn't matter, Obama's not going that far that direction any more than McCain would've gone free market capitalist. He's a mainstream politician not a revolutionary, the country isn't being torn down and all the old establishments aren't being destroyed. I agree with him on thinking that sort of thing is evil- I'm always hollering that I think any sort of involuntary taxation is wrong- but it's not like we're going to tilt [i]that far[/i] because of one man.
[QUOTE=mephis]Change change change change¯ ™® That's why. His tax plan looks similar to socialism to me. And don't call me a hypocrite for saying that because I saw the bailout as socialism as well. I've always viewed the furthest left as socialist. And Obama is as far left as it gets, even more so than Nancy Pelosi.[/QUOTE] Either you are a troll or you just don't understand leftwing politics? Socialist is what we have in Denmark. It's when your income tax is at 50% to 75%. Socialist is when you actively go for all universal healhcare, free College for all (depending on grades), housing for all, and better social security. I have only heard of a better basic healthcare for all by Obama. Nothing else. Either way, we are happy in Denmark. Why shouldn't America?
[QUOTE=rilez]don't say that, mephis will go into a fit explaining how socialism DOES equal communism and ruin this thread[/QUOTE] No, no, no you fool. Mephis' failures are funny.
[QUOTE=Imapanda]**Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year. [b]He did [i]not[/i] say this at all. Stop thinking it. He said that if the companies that provide healthcare become more efficient under his plan this will happen. When has anything started by the federal government become more efficient?[/b] If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options. **Pay Inequity Continues: For every $1.00 earned by a man, the average woman receives only 77 cents, while African American women only get 67 cents and Latinas receive only 57 cents. Obama's plan is to make everyone equal in earning by strengthening the federal hate crimes legislation. Expect to see rich mexicans with [i]ACTUAL[/i] jobs now. [b]This is good.[/b] **Obama and Biden believe that we must build up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply; invest in foreign language training, cultural awareness, and human intelligence and other needed counterinsurgency and stabilization skill sets; and create a more robust capacity to train, equip, and advise foreign security forces, so that local allies are better prepared to confront mutual threats. [b]Not much to say on this one.[/b] **Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama and Biden will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama and Biden will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans, Also Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000 and Provide $50 billion to Jumpstart the Economy and Prevent 1 Million Americans from Losing Their Jobs. [b]Again, as I said previously, he is going to provide this cut by raising the taxes of people who make over 250,000 dollars a year or more. What does this have to do with middle class? People who own businesses 99% of the time make 250,000 dollars or more each year. They aren't just going to let even more of their hard earned cash go to the feds, they are going to jack up the prices of their products / services to get that money back. This means that the people who are getting the tax cut will have to pay more of their money to get the items they need and want. To the people who say they will be smart and lower prices, that will not happen. That is perhaps the dumbest thing you could do.[/b] **He also plans to raise minimum wage to 9.50 dollars an hour by 2011, FUCK YEA [b]Well that's actually good.[/b] Goddamn look at that sexy president. [img]http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/11_obama_lg.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Responses are in bold.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8Uc5BFogE[/media]
[QUOTE=mephis] I'm neoliberal/libertarian-conservative. [/QUOTE] [img]http://www.philadelphia-reflections.com/images/Mussolini.jpg[/img] You two should have a party. I'll get the wine.
[QUOTE=Roswell34][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8Uc5BFogE[/media][/QUOTE] OH GOD YES, SAVED!:excited:
[QUOTE=Imapanda]**Pay Inequity Continues: For every $1.00 earned by a man, the average woman receives only 77 cents, while African American women only get 67 cents and Latinas receive only 57 cents.[/QUOTE] How's trusting every word the liberals spew out working for you? There are numerous in-depth reports that heavily disprove the importance of the above fact. What would make the above statement in any way useful to decision making would be the following qualifier: [b]In like-for-like jobs under the exact same conditions[/b] for every $1.00 earned by a man, the average woman receives only 77 cents, while African American women only get 67 cents and Latinas receive only 57 cents. However there is no such clause meaning that the statement is actually worthless, as all it shows (and this has been proven by Farrell and more recently in the UK) is that women/ethnic minorities either [b]do not qualify[/b] for jobs that pay competitive rates AND/OR [b]do not want[/b] such jobs (as such jobs often require high levels of education or specific tracks of education such as economics or engineering that statistically do not appeal to women). In reality all obsession over arbitrary facts such as the above achieves is positive discrimination and this is still just discrimination regardless of what the left would love to claim.
Did I mention the rest of the world respects America now for choosing him? as most of the countries say "America has finally made the right decision" McCain agreed with Bush on basically everything he stood up for, which made America crap. If he was elected most of the world would be like "OH GOD NO ANOTHER BUSH". They may not know Obama's policies, but [b]GODDAMN[/b], at least we got respect now.
If only there was a person that had no party and just did what needed to be done to fix the stuff... Course I suppose I could start shooting lightning out of my ass too.
[QUOTE=Imapanda]Did I mention the rest of the world respects America now for choosing him? as most of the countries say "America has finally made the right decision"[/QUOTE] Communal reinforcement doesn't count for much.
[QUOTE=Imapanda]Did I mention the rest of the world respects America now for choosing him? as most of the countries say "America has finally made the right decision" McCain agreed with Bush on basically everything he stood up for, which made America crap. If he was elected most of the world would be like "OH GOD NO ANOTHER BUSH". They may not know Obama's policies, but [b]GODDAMN[/b], at least we got respect now.[/QUOTE] Actually I'm English, live in London and have done so nearly all my life. None of my friends respect America for this decision. We wouldn't have respected America if McCain had won either. We haven't respected America for decades since, oh I don't know, all of America's media painted America as the saviour of the world to whom we should be in debt. Since your country made movies about MY country's achievements and claimed they were your own (U-571 for example). Since your country created a plethora of sickeningly bad media rolemodels that seeped over to our country and corrupted it (most specifically I'm referring to G's and bling but there's plenty of other crud America has dumped all over the world). So I'm not sure if the rest of the world will ever respect America but truth be told it's a little worrying how much Americans worry about their world-wide reputation, why do Americans even care what other nations think about them? But respect issues aside, why on earth do Americans think that electing a black man with a really dodgy past to lead their country is a respect-worthy decision? People like Jesse Jackson would most likely claim that it 'goes a small way to repairing the ills of slavery', but such bold blame-the-other-guy statements completely ignore the fact that the slave trade built many African nations and continues to thrive therein. So please, in what way is this election any more landmark than any other?
This sucks in some ways, but rocks in others. That's why I'm torn. It's good because Obama is really concerned with isolating America and forcing companies to bring jobs back that way, but sucks because we are gonna loose so much spending on the military. I'm a John McCain supporter, but I'll take the message he told me and 10's of millions of other Americans, "We'll do everything in our power to support and help you". Let's go Barack. :patriot:
[QUOTE=TrashMaster1]This sucks in some ways, but rocks in others. That's why I'm torn. It's good because Obama is really concerned with isolating America and forcing companies to bring jobs back that way, but sucks because we are gonna loose so much spending on the military.[/QUOTE] you spend too god damn much on the military anyway
Dag. Obama comes to power on my birthday. Bitch wants to steal both my countrah and mah cake. :bees: [B]EDIT:[/B] on the same day...
[QUOTE=Kalibos]you spend too god damn much on the military anyway[/QUOTE] Yeah, people don't exactly point guns at us everyday and we have the Monroe Doctrine to support it. Basically, we are the Western Hemisphere's army.
[QUOTE=Imapanda]Did I mention the rest of the world respects America now for choosing him? as most of the countries say "America has finally made the right decision" McCain agreed with Bush on basically everything he stood up for, which made America crap. If he was elected most of the world would be like "OH GOD NO ANOTHER BUSH". They may not know Obama's policies, but [b]GODDAMN[/b], at least we got respect now.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrV0c9ETnWo[/media]
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett]Dag. Obama comes to power on my birthday. Bitch wants to steal both my countrah and mah cake. :bees: [B]EDIT:[/B] on the same day...[/QUOTE] January 20th, let the countdown begin.
[QUOTE=TrashMaster1]January 20th, let the countdown begin.[/QUOTE] Excuse the ignorance of your fellow conservative across the pond, but what happens then?
[QUOTE=BGH122]Actually I'm English, live in London and have done so nearly all my life. None of my friends respect America for this decision. We wouldn't have respected America if McCain had won either. We haven't respected America for decades since, oh I don't know, all of America's media painted America as the saviour of the world to whom we should be in debt. Since your country made movies about MY country's achievements and claimed they were your own (U-571 for example). Since your country created a plethora of sickeningly bad media rolemodels that seeped over to our country and corrupted it (most specifically I'm referring to G's and bling but there's plenty of other crud America has dumped all over the world). So I'm not sure if the rest of the world will ever respect America but truth be told it's a little worrying how much Americans worry about their world-wide reputation, why do Americans even care what other nations think about them? But respect issues aside, why on earth do Americans think that electing a black man with a really dodgy past to lead their country is a respect-worthy decision? People like Jesse Jackson would most likely claim that it 'goes a small way to repairing the ills of slavery', but such bold blame-the-other-guy statements completely ignore the fact that the slave trade built many African nations and continues to thrive therein. So please, in what way is this election any more landmark than any other?[/QUOTE] Uuuuh right.. :rolleye: read this and learn. [url]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=auOgLgIJpf9Q&refer=uk[/url] [quote] Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- The leaders of Britain's political parties all moved to claim inspiration from Barack Obama's victory in the U.S. presidential election. For Prime Minister Gordon Brown, 57, it was a sign that people around the world want big government on their side in tough economic times. David Cameron, 41, leader of the main opposition Conservative Party, said it showed voters choosing a change of government and a young leader. The rivals clashed over their interpretations in Parliament today. ``That's what they do,'' said Steven Fielding, director of the Center for British Politics at Nottingham University. ``The trick is for them to try to pick the bits out of Obama that suits them.'' A July poll by ICM Ltd. found [b]Britons overwhelmingly preferred Obama over his Republican rival John McCain by a ratio of five to one. Only 11 percent of the 1,009 adults surveyed July 9-10 wanted McCain to win.[/b] [/quote] Owned scrub.
[QUOTE=BGH122]Excuse the ignorance of your fellow conservative across the pond, but what happens then?[/QUOTE] Inauguration Day.
[QUOTE=BGH122]Excuse the ignorance of your fellow conservative across the pond, but what happens then?[/QUOTE] Obama officially takes office.
[QUOTE=Kalibos]left isn't always a bad thing [B]that's[/B] what people need to realize[/QUOTE] And left only spells SOCIALIST COMMUNIST MARXIST EVIL DICTATOR FROM HELL if you are an idiot. So please, in the future guys, stop calling a non-socialist a socialist. It really shows how stupid you are.
[QUOTE=Imapanda]Uuuuh right.. :rolleye: read this and learn. [url]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=auOgLgIJpf9Q&refer=uk[/url] [/QUOTE] Joking right? Did you even read the article before sending it to me? This has nothing to do with the British public respecting America for their decision. The article highlights British politicians sucking up to the new president of the largest economic and militaristic power on our side. Whoever comes to power in the UK will need the support of the US so it's no great surprise that there's a major suck-up session amongst politicians. The only piece of evidence you gave me was a poll with no cited source. So rather than suggesting that I 'learn' about my own countrymen of 18 years and about something that it would be almost impossible for you to disprove me over, I suggest that you learn to pick debates you can feasibly win. EDIT: In fact thinking of it, neither of us can really win this debate. Even if you showed me countless evidence against me you still wouldn't be right, because I have genuine a posteriori evidence that the English do not respect American or Americans and I cannot really give you my own a posteriori knowledge through anything other than you talking to Londoners about their view of Americans - which obviously is infeasible.
[QUOTE=TrashMaster1]Yeah, people don't exactly point guns at us everyday and we have the Monroe Doctrine to support it. Basically, we are the Western Hemisphere's army.[/QUOTE] you use 512 billion dollars on military spending. That's more then most nations own national budget spending. Why not use 12 billion of them on schools instead?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.