[QUOTE=heyo]In socialism there is no american dream at all, no one has any incentive to work hard to make more money, everybodies lazy. You don't get rewarded for actually working hard so why do it?
Socialism creates lazy societies where no one really cares about working, afterall they just get it for free anyway so why bother?
It's not moronic, you look at the small scale while I'm looking at the big picture. Taxing those greedy rich more may sound like a great idea but you have to see the other effects it causes. The rich run the companies and won't want to invest if they have less money, they also won't want to hire more hurting the poor in the end. Most rich people worked hard to get their money.
Everyone here is all: "It's so obvious vote for Obama I can't believe how dumb people are!" Look at the other sides reasons for why they don't want Obama.[/QUOTE]
No, you're thinking of communism.
[QUOTE=heyo]In socialism there is no american dream at all, no one has any incentive to work hard to make more money, everybodies lazy. You don't get rewarded for actually working hard so why do it?[/QUOTE]
Have you actually lived in a socialist democracy? Apparently, people work there.
I know, strange isn't it?
[QUOTE=Melkor]No, you're thinking of communism.[/QUOTE]
No, he's thinking of what would happen if socialism/communism was applied right away to a community.
[QUOTE=heyo]In socialism there is no american dream at all, no one has any incentive to work hard to make more money, everybodies lazy. You don't get rewarded for actually working hard so why do it?
Socialism creates lazy societies where no one really cares about working, afterall they just get it for free anyway so why bother?
It's not moronic, you look at the small scale while I'm looking at the big picture. Taxing those greedy rich more may sound like a great idea but you have to see the other effects it causes. The rich run the companies and won't want to invest if they have less money, they also won't want to hire more hurting the poor in the end. Most rich people worked hard to get their money.
Everyone here is all: "It's so obvious vote for Obama I can't believe how dumb people are!" Look at the other sides reasons for why they don't want Obama.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying UK and Germany are lazy?
I'm sorry, but you have no clue about what you are talking. As stated before, you are confusing socialism with communism...
It seems you clearly fit into the category of Americans I was ranting about.
Bill Clinton had very similar tax policies as Obama and guess what? The economy and the American industry was blooming during the 90s. The riches didn't got hurt that bad because all the Americans COULD afford buying and producing stuff. Now it's the opposite, all the elite is getting the money, there is no regularization and all the markets are collapsing worldwide.
Also, the taxes Obama is proposing are NOT that huge to the rich.
They are more favorable for the middle class because America needs to rebuild its economy.
If the riches don't want to run their businesses, then the middle class will be able to build their own, which means, a more competitive market. That is the main goal.
What McCain is proposing is more of the same from the Bush administration.
Don't try to fool yourself on this, read more and get educated.
[QUOTE=FreDre]So you're saying UK and Germany are lazy?
I'm sorry, but you have no clue about what you are talking. As stated before, you are confusing socialism with communism...
It seems you clearly fit into the category of Americans I was ranting about.
Bill Clinton had very similar tax policies as Obama and guess what? The economy and the American industry was blooming during the 90s. The riches didn't got hurt that bad because all the Americans COULD afford buying and producing stuff. Now it's the opposite, all the elite is getting the money, there is no regularization and all the markets are collapsing worldwide.
Also, the taxes Obama is proposing are NOT that huge to the rich.
They are more favorable for the middle class because America needs to rebuild its economy.
If the riches don't want to run their businesses, then the middle class will be able to build their own, which means, a more competitive market. That is the main goal.
What McCain is proposing is more of the same from the Bush administration.
Don't try to fool yourself on this, read more and get educated.[/QUOTE]
I love you, can i have your children?
In the UK we are not a socialist country but have a "mixed economy" - private businesses and entrepreneurs are encouraged, but everyone has to pay taxes to support state funded safety net help such as Jobseeker's Allowance (£60 a week for a single person, hardly a fortune), emergency health care free of charge, subsidised basic dentistry, opticians and so on. These services are fairly basic but adequate - and there is nothing to stop people having private insurance or paying privately out of their own pockets if they prefer something a little more luxurious.
It wouldn't be too bad if a few dollars were used to help out those in the most need, surely?
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Obama has ever suggested that America should become a socialist country.
[QUOTE=Olinaj]The only reason that some people see that McCain has more supporters on the internet is because most of the "McCain supporters" aren't even old enough to vote.[/QUOTE]
Why exactly would little kids go for McCain more than older ones?
[quote=gasmask00000]I really don't see to many McCain supporters here in Michigan, probably because he hasn't really spent the time to come here and campaign. Everywhere there are signs that say Obama on them. Michigan is one of the most down states right now and we really need the support of the new president to help turn around and if McCain doesn't do that, Obama all the way.[/quote]
You remember that McCain just up and pulled out of Michigan, right? He actually spent more campaigning there than Obama did, but Obama won out heavily. I kinda feel like distressed auto workers are rightly unimpressed with McCain.
[QUOTE=verynicelady]
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Obama has ever suggested that America should become a socialist country.[/QUOTE]
He hasn't everyone jumps off the deepend and calls obama a socialist because he wants to tax the rich.
[QUOTE=FreDre]So you're saying UK and Germany are lazy?
I'm sorry, but you have no clue about what you are talking. As stated before, you are confusing socialism with communism...
It seems you clearly fit into the category of Americans I was ranting about.
Bill Clinton had very similar tax policies as Obama and guess what? The economy and the American industry was blooming during the 90s. The riches didn't got hurt that bad because all the Americans COULD afford buying and producing stuff. Now it's the opposite, all the elite is getting the money, there is no regularization and all the markets are collapsing worldwide.
Also, the taxes Obama is proposing are NOT that huge to the rich.
They are more favorable for the middle class because America needs to rebuild its economy.
If the riches don't want to run their businesses, then the middle class will be able to build their own, which means, a more competitive market. That is the main goal.
What McCain is proposing is more of the same from the Bush administration.
Don't try to fool yourself on this, read more and get educated.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying they're lazy, they're part of a system that rewards laziness.
The markets collapsing and bad economy has nothing to do with the Bush administration.
Government should just for the most part let money do what it does, it's the fairest way. More regulation is not going to help in the long run. I really don't want Obama to make another new deal.
[QUOTE=thisispain]Have you actually lived in a socialist democracy? Apparently, people work there.
I know, strange isn't it?[/QUOTE]
Yes people work in socialism but there's a lot less incentive to get rich if the government takes half your money you make. Low incentive to get rich means bad economy.
[QUOTE=heyo]I'm not saying they're lazy, they're part of a system that rewards laziness.
The markets collapsing and bad economy has nothing to do with the Bush administration.
Government should just for the most part let money do what it does, it's the fairest way. More regulation is not going to help in the long run. I really don't want Obama to make another new deal.
Yes people work in socialism but there's a lot less incentive to get rich if the government takes half your money you make. Low incentive to get rich means bad economy.[/QUOTE]
Not really, the market is collapsing due to de-regulation of banks.
Socialism doesn't lead to less incentive to get rich, it leads to equality over all levels, your thinking about socialism if it was just slapped onto the world, you have to slowly put socialism into the world, and then after the bastard child of socialism/capitalism has run it's course true communism will come out.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs&feature=related[/media]
It's all God's plan, Iraq war.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPIHjE0T_ww&feature=related[/media]
Am I the only person who's terrified of this woman gaining the Vice Presidency?
[QUOTE=heyo]I'm not saying they're lazy, they're part of a system that rewards laziness.
The markets collapsing and bad economy has nothing to do with the Bush administration.
Government should just for the most part let money do what it does, it's the fairest way. More regulation is not going to help in the long run. I really don't want Obama to make another new deal.
Yes people work in socialism but there's a lot less incentive to get rich if the government takes half your money you make. Low incentive to get rich means bad economy.[/QUOTE]
Why the deficit has increased like hell since the start of the war on Iraq? Why are the banks collapsing? I think it's because of lack of regularization....
And again, what I'm talking is not like true socialism, I'm talking about a social democracy, which use a mixed economy. Almost all the developed countries on Europe work that way.
They socialize the most basic needs for its population so they can have education, good health and not starve to death.
Also, as I said before, the American middle class is completely destroyed. The very wealthy has too much money, you need to redistribute the wealth if you want to have a fair economic system.
You only start to pay high taxes if your family is making over $603K.
Read this:
[quote=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama]Under the Obama plan middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. Obama has proposed a tax plan which includes tax credits to lower the amount of taxes paid. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will make tax payments that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.
[b]Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s[/b]. For the wealthiest 2% of families, Obama will reverse a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years. [b]But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.[/b][/quote]
It looks even better than Clinton's policies.
[QUOTE=FreDre]Why the deficit has increased like hell since the start of the war on Iraq? Why are the banks collapsing? I think it's because of lack of regularization....
And again, what I'm talking is not like true socialism, I'm talking about a social democracy, which use a mixed economy. Almost all the developed countries on Europe work that way.
They socialize the most basic needs for its population so they can have education, good health and not starve to death.
Also, as I said before, the American middle class is completely destroyed. The very wealthy has too much money, you need to redistribute the wealth if you want to have a fair economic system.
You only start to pay high taxes if your family is making over $603K.
Read this:
It looks even better than Clinton's policies.[/QUOTE]
Really, can i have your children?
[QUOTE=Angel]Isn't the election less than a week away?[/QUOTE]
One week and two days.
[QUOTE=heyo]
Yes people work in socialism but there's a lot less incentive to get rich if the government takes half your money you make. Low incentive to get rich means bad economy.[/QUOTE]
Socialism /= high taxes. Our taxes would be low if there wasn't royalty chipping away at it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't America's health care already quite socialist?
[QUOTE=mathhomework]Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't America's health care already quite socialist?[/QUOTE]
Nope.
There's no universal health care.
If you don't have health insurance, you are fucked.
[QUOTE=mathhomework]Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't America's health care already quite socialist?[/QUOTE]
Bwahahahahahaha!
I wouldn't call it that. Denmark's health care is what you would call socialist. lowest income tax is 45%, but that also leaves us with a very good health care system that takes care of nearly everybody. As long as you pay tax, you will be able to get the same care, that the rich get.
Again, here is the McCain and Obama tax cuts:
[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6499/obamamccaintaxcutwe1.gif[/IMG][/URL]
As you can see, Obama will tax the upper 0.3 procent of Americans, making more then 3 million a year. Which is 15 million kroner, and quite a deal of money in Denmark.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=heyo]I'm not saying they're lazy, they're part of a system that rewards laziness.
The markets collapsing and bad economy has nothing to do with the Bush administration.
Government should just for the most part let money do what it does, it's the fairest way. More regulation is not going to help in the long run. I really don't want Obama to make another new deal.
[B]Yes people work in socialism but there's a lot less incentive to get rich if the government takes half your money you make. Low incentive to get rich means bad economy.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah right, no one in Denmark wants to be rich. We just want to sit on our fat asses doing nothing.
This is the American stereotype of socialists. Get over it, this is not how it works.
[QUOTE=Cathbadh]Why exactly would little kids go for McCain more than older ones?
[/QUOTE]
Because...
1. They're the most effected by advertising.
2. They're the least informed about politics.
3. They regurgitate whatever there parents say.
Joe the Plumber may run for congress :v:.
[QUOTE=Dirtydiaper]Joe the Plumber may run for congress :v:.[/QUOTE]
Joe the Plumber might encounter fierce resistance from long lost brother Joe Six Pack, while running Congress.
If Obama wins he'll raise all the taxes of the super rich people, sadly if you understand that the super rich are the biggest consumers, if the spend more money on taxes then less money will go into the economy, and we'll get further into debt, for when the poor may have less taxes but they'll still struggle with the taxes therefore not putting no money at tall into the economy which once again chokes the economy.
If you want to really end the economy fail, then you would vote for McCain. Since he equally does tax cuts for all citizens so they all would have extra money to buy that new 15in flat screen which puts money back into the economy, and so in a few years the economy will balance.
[QUOTE=Olinaj]Because...
1. They're the most effected by advertising.
2. They're the least informed about politics.
3. They regurgitate whatever there parents say.[/QUOTE]
No joke, I liked Republicans when I was 8, because the Republicans were the good guys in Star Wars, but I seem to have missed out on the part of the movie where they become the Empire. Possible conspiracy??
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=ScoobyV2]If Obama wins he'll raise all the taxes of the super rich people, sadly if you understand that the super rich are the biggest consumers, if the spend more money on taxes then less money will go into the economy, and we'll get further into debt, for when the poor may have less taxes but they'll still struggle with the taxes therefore not putting no money at tall into the economy which once again chokes the economy.
If you want to really end the economy fail, then you would vote for McCain. Since he equally does tax cuts for all citizens so they all would have extra money to buy that new 15in flat screen which puts money back into the economy, and so in a few years the economy will balance.[/QUOTE]
The richest are the ones that invest in businesses, and the economy, but nowadays people often forget that the ones fueling the businesses are the middle class, who make up 60% of taxpayers(Thank you Beafman). So I think it is time for consumers to get some slack.
Anyone else think it should be a rule that anyone in office should be nonreligious/unbiased. If you start saying that god is the reason for things, you should be removed from office until god is found as a reliable source for war making.
For a secular democratic republic the US sure seems destined to become a theocracy if McCain gets in.
[QUOTE=mikfoz]For a secular democratic republic the US sure seems destined to become a theocracy if McCain gets in.[/QUOTE]
Secular? Don't bullshit yourself. One nation under God.
[QUOTE=cricket]Secular? Don't bullshit yourself. One nation under God.[/QUOTE]
Yeah really man fuck Eisenhower
[QUOTE=cricket]Secular? Don't bullshit yourself. One nation under God.[/QUOTE]
First amendment: [b]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/b]
[QUOTE=ScoobyV2]If Obama wins he'll raise all the taxes of the super rich people, sadly if you understand that the super rich are the biggest consumers, if the spend more money on taxes then less money will go into the economy, and we'll get further into debt, for when the poor may have less taxes but they'll still struggle with the taxes therefore not putting no money at tall into the economy which once again chokes the economy.
If you want to really end the economy fail, then you would vote for McCain. Since he equally does tax cuts for all citizens so they all would have extra money to buy that new 15in flat screen which puts money back into the economy, and so in a few years the economy will balance.[/QUOTE]
not to mention the fact that the large stores (Wal-mart, Walgreens, etc) and the small businesses (Joe the plumber's plumbing emporium) will have to unionize and provide health care for all it's employees, which could pull a lot of companies under (not wal-mart, but it'll sure hurt their business and they may have to start closing smaller stores)
[QUOTE=Dirtydiaper]not to mention the fact that the large stores (Wal-mart, Walgreens, etc) and the small businesses (Joe the plumber's plumbing emporium) will have to unionize and provide health care for all it's employees, which could pull a lot of companies under (not wal-mart, but it'll sure hurt their business and they may have to start closing smaller stores)[/QUOTE]
Yeah it might end up sucking. But 250k is several shitloads of money.
Sadly i can't believe that he will manage to keep that figure when he tries to get all his other plans in action.
Economically, I see Mccain and Obama on two opposite sides of the spectrum. Obama might end up limiting business more, and Mccain could screw us over more by letting big business get control of our economy more than bush did.
When I think about it now, I'd rather have smaller businesses than an Ubermart.
I may not know anything, though. Political science doesn't cover enough about the race today.
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