[QUOTE=IK-91]For those of you watching the Re-run of the debate. McCain won.[/QUOTE]
Experience.
I dislike both but which I dislike less changes a lot depending on what I hear, McCain has Palin, but Obama has Biden.
It's pretty neck-and-neck on who sucks the most.
[QUOTE=IK-91]Hahahaha, and that's where this conversation stops.
[/QUOTE]
Why is it always the conservative that ends these sort of debates?
[QUOTE=thisispain]It's an important social issue.
Right, that's why both McCain and Palin completely support it?
Yes it is, it's the government having a say with a completely personal issue, I thought you were for small government?[/QUOTE]
See here's where you're not getting me.
My personal political views are that absolutely anything goes except for the basics. I.E. Don't kill each other, don't steal from each other. etcetc.
What ever someone wants to teach in school should be up to the local government. It's a public school, not a government education center.
I'm just trying to get it into your head that constitutional rights come before ANYTHING else. If someone does not [u]fully[/u] support those, then they're automatically disqualified for presidency. Not just supporting bits and pieces of them, not just picking and choosing what they agree with, but fully supporting them.
But if you're going to argue the definition of things, now that's where I'm going to disagree with you. Gay rights do not come before basic constitutional rights. What is taught in school should be decided by the local government and public. And if you want to have an abortion, fine, but don't brush it off that it's anything less than murder.
[QUOTE=mephis]See here's where you're not getting me.
My personal political views are that absolutely anything goes except for the basics. I.E. Don't kill each other, don't steal from each other. etcetc.
What ever someone wants to teach in school should be up to the local government. It's a public school, not a government education center.
I'm just trying to get it into your head that constitutional rights come before ANYTHING else. If someone does not [u]fully[/u] support those, then they're automatically disqualified for presidency. Not just supporting bits and pieces of them, not just picking and choosing what they agree with, but fully supporting them.
But if you're going to argue the definition of things, now that's where I'm going to disagree with you. Gay rights do not come before basic constitutional rights. What is taught in school should be decided by the local government and public. And if you want to have an abortion, fine, but don't brush it off that it's anything less than murder.[/QUOTE]
We cannot and should not deny freedom based on anything.
The basis of constitution is freedom, now how can we deny that freedom while supporting the constitution?
[QUOTE=mephis]What ever someone wants to teach in school should be up to the local government. It's a public school, not a government education center.[/QUOTE]
The day this happens I am leaving this fucking country. Do you honestly support it? What if a cult is the majority in a town and they force the rest of it to be indoctrinated because their "public" and "local government" decided?
Holy fuck I still can't believe you just suggested this.
[QUOTE=mephis]And if you want to have an abortion, fine[/QUOTE]
If only more conservatives though like this, and stopped trying to push their beliefs on other people. You can have full rights to your opinion on abortion, I just wish they would stop trying to make everyone else feel the same way.
And as far as gay marriage. C'mon. We're not living in puritan times anymore, get with it. Seeing as marriages are recognized by the state, they should be able to be obtained by any couple without discrimination.
last word.
[QUOTE=T3L_Goose]Why can't you just allow that next leap? Seriously? Are you that cruel?
Life is a right for anyone, correct, but what to you justifies "life"? Be careful, this is a trick question.
I can't argue with the second Amendment.[/QUOTE]
A baby has a heart beat at 6 weeks, and right at fertilization the baby has unique DNA, blood type, and other physical characteristics
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=R3conmaster]Do you have any idea what a veto is, and which person in D.C. can veto?[/QUOTE]
A veto is basically voting against a law so it won't be passed, and technically the senate can't veto things, only override a veto, but you know what I mean
[b]Edit:[/b]
and yes, I know that only the President can veto laws. I passed the Constitution test.
[QUOTE=Illian]
A veto is basically voting against a law so it won't be passed, and technically the senate can't veto things, only override a veto, but you know what I mean
[b]Edit:[/b]
and yes, I know that only the President can veto laws. I passed the Constitution test.[/QUOTE]
Well then don't talk about Senators vetoing things. And overriding a veto is the opposite of a veto, so that makes no sense either. Have some wikipedia:
"The word "veto" does not appear in the United States Constitution. Per U.S. Const., Article I, Section 7 all legislation passed by both houses of Congress must be presented to the President. This presentation is in the President's capacity as head of state.
If the President approves of the legislation, he signs it (sign into law). If he does not approve, he must return the bill, unsigned, within ten days, excluding Sundays, to the house of the United States Congress in which it originated, while the Congress is in session. The President is constitutionally required to state his objections to the legislation in writing, and the Congress is constitutionally required to consider them, and to reconsider the legislation. This action, in effect, is a veto."
[QUOTE=R3conmaster]Well then don't talk about Senators vetoing things. And overriding a veto is the opposite of a veto, so that makes no sense either. Have some wikipedia:
"The word "veto" does not appear in the United States Constitution. Per U.S. Const., Article I, Section 7 all legislation passed by both houses of Congress must be presented to the President. This presentation is in the President's capacity as head of state.
If the President approves of the legislation, he signs it (sign into law). If he does not approve, he must return the bill, unsigned, within ten days, excluding Sundays, to the house of the United States Congress in which it originated, while the Congress is in session. The President is constitutionally required to state his objections to the legislation in writing, and the Congress is constitutionally required to consider them, and to reconsider the legislation. This action, in effect, is a veto."[/QUOTE]
:sigh: Didn't I just say that I [I]know[/I] that? I used a word as a stand in for a common political activity. Get the fuck over it already and make a sensible point
[QUOTE=thisispayn]We cannot and should not deny freedom based on anything.
The basis of constitution is freedom, now how can we deny that freedom while supporting the constitution?[/QUOTE]
cuz you're infringing on the freedom of others
[QUOTE=RBM11]The day this happens I am leaving this fucking country. Do you honestly support it? What if a cult is the majority in a town and they force the rest of it to be indoctrinated because their "public" and "local government" decided?
Holy fuck I still can't believe you just suggested this.[/QUOTE]
First off, was it necessary to make a massive empty space?
Secondly, you do realize that some "cult" couldn't take over the local school system right? This would have to go through local and state level government. I'm saying that it shouldn't be federal law, as to what's taught, and what's not, in school.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Muffins!]If only more conservatives though like this, and stopped trying to push their beliefs on other people. You can have full rights to your opinion on abortion, I just wish they would stop trying to make everyone else feel the same way.
And as far as gay marriage. C'mon. We're not living in puritan times anymore, get with it. Seeing as marriages are recognized by the state, they should be able to be obtained by any couple without discrimination.[/QUOTE]
I still don't believe the word "marriage" should be given over to homosexuals.
They can come up with what ever they want and have the same "rights" as married couples, but due to the definition of marriage being between a man and a woman, I don't think it's right for them to change that. If the UK is going to go as far as to respect Islamic laws, the United states government should go as far as to respect the religious beliefs of its peoples.
I don't see why that would be unagreeable unless you're just trying to piss off different religions for personal reasons. Which is silly.
[QUOTE=mephis]I still don't believe the word "marriage" should be given over to homosexuals.
They can come up with what ever they want and have the same "rights" as married couples, but due to the definition of marriage being between a man and a woman, I don't think it's right for them to change that. If the UK is going to go as far as to respect Islamic laws, the United states government should go as far as to respect the religious beliefs of its peoples.
I don't see why that would be unagreeable unless you're just trying to piss off different religions for personal reasons. Which is silly.[/QUOTE]
I think that if we call it a different name, it'll get a different set of rules, unfortunately. If government-recognized "civil unions" because the exact same as marriages without the same name, everything would be wonderful
We all know, though, politicians will find some way to force their beliefs in there and restrict those rights if they become two separate things. It's a shame, really.
Otherwise, that indeed would be very agreeable if it worked out right.
[quote]Secondly, you do realize that some "cult" couldn't take over the local school system right? This would have to go through local and state level government. I'm saying that it shouldn't be federal law, as to what's taught, and what's not, in school.[/quote]
Religion has no place in the education system. School is a place to cement the building blocks of logic and intelligence into kids, and having them blindly believing anything told to them without the chance of free thought is completely contradictory to that.
[QUOTE=Muffins!]Religion has no place in the education system. School is a place to cement the building blocks of logic and intelligence into kids, and having them blindly believing anything told to them without the chance of free thought is completely contradictory to that.[/QUOTE]
You just won on so many levels
[QUOTE=Dabu]You just won on so many levels[/QUOTE]
He's a muffin, it's in his nature to win.
[QUOTE=T3L_Goose]God doesn't exist. We have a right because religious law is obsolete and cruel.
Next you will be talking about stoning disobedient children and kicking them out of town.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if God exist or not the USA was founded on the Bible and the Christian religion/morals. When we took God and prayer out of schools they went down hill. I mean no disrespect, but why do Atheist care so much if God is in school or if "In God we trust." is on our money? You might not believe in him ,but I sure as hell trust him. (I'm agnostic) If people get the idea that there's a higher being and a reason to be good then maybe there wouldn't be so many killings in school, but for some reason we have to change things for people who come over here with their religion.
Lets say they put God back in schools and allowed prayer, would it affect you any? No, but still you people complain it's unfair and unjust. Get the fuck over it. If you don't want to pray then don't just respect the people that do. No one can ever prove God doesn't exist.
Next you'll be talking about taking God out of our money..whoops you already are.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]It doesn't matter if God exist or not the USA was founded on the Bible and the Christian religion/morals. When we took God and prayer out of schools they went down hill. I mean no disrespect, but why do Atheist care so much if God is in school or if "In God we trust." is on our money? You might not believe in him ,but I sure as hell trust him. (I'm agnostic) If people get the idea that there's a higher being and a reason to be good then maybe there wouldn't be so many killings in school, but for some reason we have to change things for people who come over here with their religion.
Lets say they put God back in schools and allowed prayer, would it affect you any? No, but still you people complain it's unfair and unjust. Get the fuck over it. If you don't want to pray then don't just respect the people that do. No one can ever prove God doesn't exist.
Next you'll be talking about taking God out of our money..whoops you already are.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_tripoli[/url]
Article 11. Read it, dammit.
If people want their kids to learn religion, they should send them to church, not expect them to earn it in school.
If they really don't believe in evolution, they can tell their kids not to listen to it.
As much as I think that would be a REALLY stupid decision, I don't think it would be right to interfere with how people raise their children unless they are abusive or neglectful.
[QUOTE=Muffins!]
Religion has no place in the education system. School is a place to cement the building blocks of logic and intelligence into kids, and having them blindly believing anything told to them without the chance of free thought is completely contradictory to that.[/QUOTE]
Did you read what I said or just look at the word "school" and reply to that?
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]It doesn't matter if God exist or not the USA was founded on the Bible and the Christian religion/morals. When we took God and prayer out of schools they went down hill. I mean no disrespect, but why do Atheist care so much if God is in school or if "In God we trust." is on our money? You might not believe in him ,but I sure as hell trust him. (I'm agnostic) If people get the idea that there's a higher being and a reason to be good then maybe there wouldn't be so many killings in school, but for some reason we have to change things for people who come over here with their religion.
Lets say they put God back in schools and allowed prayer, would it affect you any? No, but still you people complain it's unfair and unjust. Get the fuck over it. If you don't want to pray then don't just respect the people that do. No one can ever prove God doesn't exist.
Next you'll be talking about taking God out of our money..whoops you already are.[/QUOTE]
I agree, why is it that big of a fucking deal if everyone else managed to survive with it this way?
It's not singling anyone out, it's not denying anyone rights, it's merely an image or a figure you can chose to ignore or not. People protest having to salute the American flag the same way, why do they do it? Simply because they hate the school and want to protest it, and cause as much unrest and upset as they possibly can.
I don't see a problem with God not being on the education program, but I believe it's unconstitutional to disallow prayer in school. Unless of course the school is trying to force their students to pray. I'm speaking on it for the individual.
[QUOTE=fragmaplas][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_tripoli[/url]
Article 11. Read it, dammit.[/QUOTE]
Seen it before, but still I say no more. God can be real and in a box, but Atheist will tell me I need to take him out of the box.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Seen it before, but still I say no more. God can be real and in a box, but Atheist will tell me I need to take him out of the box.[/QUOTE]
nice avatar
[QUOTE=mephis]
I don't see a problem with God not being on the education program, but[b] I believe it's unconstitutional to disallow prayer in school.[/b] Unless of course the school is trying to force their students to pray. I'm speaking on it for the individual.[/QUOTE]
This is what I was trying to say. I've got in trouble in my old school for wearing a cross necklace and saying God was real.
(I had a mean evolutionists teacher)
[QUOTE=fragmaplas]nice avatar[/QUOTE]
Oh Lord! This made my day! Thank you kind sir! I just noticed that.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]This is what I was trying to say. I've got in trouble in my old school for wearing a cross necklace and saying God was real.
(I had a mean evolutionists teacher)[/QUOTE]
Surprisingly, the ACLU might help you on that. Call up a local office and ask for advice or help.
That's the only thing they're good for.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]This is what I was trying to say. I've got in trouble in my old school for wearing a cross necklace and saying God was real.
(I had a mean evolutionists teacher)[/QUOTE]
How are you agnostic? I have no idea.
[QUOTE=thisispain]How are you agnostic? I have no idea.[/QUOTE]
Maybe he doesn't believe the Bible, and doesn't follow any church?
Except for the very core beliefs.
[QUOTE=mephis]
I agree, why is it that big of a fucking deal if everyone else managed to survive with it this way?
It's not singling anyone out, it's not denying anyone rights, it's merely an image or a figure you can chose to ignore or not. People protest having to salute the American flag the same way, why do they do it? Simply because they hate the school and want to protest it, and cause as much unrest and upset as they possibly can.
I don't see a problem with God not being on the education program, but I believe it's unconstitutional to disallow prayer in school. Unless of course the school is trying to force their students to pray. I'm speaking on it for the individual.[/QUOTE]
The supreme court has declared it unconstitutional for any public program to favor a religion, teaching creationism ties into that, and prayer? Well, seeing as the majority of America is christian, nothing good will come from it.
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