[QUOTE=mephis]Maybe he doesn't believe the Bible, and doesn't follow any church?
Except for the very core beliefs.[/QUOTE]
do you know what an agnostic is?
[QUOTE=mephis]Maybe he doesn't believe the Bible, and doesn't follow any church?
Except for the very core beliefs.[/QUOTE]
Agnostics reject the idea of god as much as Atheists do, but they also reject the idea that god cannot exist, because we lack evidence.
[QUOTE=mephis]I agree, why is it that big of a fucking deal if everyone else managed to survive with it this way?
It's not singling anyone out, it's not denying anyone rights, it's merely an image or a figure you can chose to ignore or not. People protest having to salute the American flag the same way, why do they do it? Simply because they hate the school and want to protest it, and cause as much unrest and upset as they possibly can.
I don't see a problem with God not being on the education program, but I believe it's unconstitutional to disallow prayer in school. Unless of course the school is trying to force their students to pray. I'm speaking on it for the individual.[/QUOTE]
I think we agree then. I'm all for having the right to believe in what you wish, and if you want to pray in school, go for it. But it shouldn't be part of the curriculum to be taught creationism as absolute fact. Even evolution is taught as a theory.
[quote]Did you read what I said or just look at the word "school" and reply to that?[/quote]Yep, I did, and I was merely saying that religion, any religion, does not belong in schools unless it's taught from an objective standpoint, as is evolution. It should not be up to the local government to decide what children believe in, instead they should be given the tools to make the decision for themselves.
[QUOTE=thisispain]How are you agnostic? I have no idea.[/QUOTE]
When I was like 13. I'm 16 now. I stop believing alot of the Bible when I just didn't like the sound of some of it. I think it's true some what, but humans as we are probably changed a little of it.
[QUOTE=thisispain]The supreme court has declared it unconstitutional for any public program to favor a religion, teaching creationism ties into that, and prayer? Well, seeing as the majority of America is christian, nothing good will come from it.[/QUOTE]
Teaching creationism, as from the bible, I can understand being unconstitutional.
And yes, the school FORCING students to pray, in the same way they were forced to salute the flag, is unconstitutional.
But allowing students to pray before a game or before a meal, I think they need to lighten up on, since that IS a constitutional right.
[QUOTE=mephis]Teaching creationism, as from the bible, I can understand being unconstitutional.
And yes, the school FORCING students to pray, they they use to have to salute the flag, is of course unconstitutional.
But allowing students to pray before a game or before a meal, I think they need to lighten up on, since that IS a constitutional right.[/QUOTE]
I've actually never heard of this being a problem, as that is wrong. Link?
[QUOTE=Muffins!]I've actually never heard of this being a problem, as that is wrong. Link?[/QUOTE]
I was already out of school by the time this stuff came about.
So I don't know how it plays out in the classroom.
All I know is that if they're disallowing individuals to pray to themselves in the school, then that's unconstitutional.
Hell, my 6th grade teacher said "Look you might not believe in God and not like our pledge, but when your in my class you put your hand on your heart and respect the rest that do."
If God has no right in schools then neither does evolution. In someways both should be separated into two special schools. Public schools should be the plain old boring schools that kids just go to do work and can believe what they want.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]If God has no right in schools then neither does evolution. In someways both should be separated into two special schools. Public schools should be the plain old boring schools that kids just go to do work and can believe what they want.[/QUOTE]
Let me guess, you're going to pull the old "It's just a theory!" argument, amirite?
[QUOTE=thisispain]1 year of being governor of a small state,[/QUOTE]
Uh...FYI alaska is huge...they just draw it small on the maps...
[QUOTE=TH89]Uh...FYI alaska is huge...they just draw it small on the maps...[/QUOTE]
i hear they have snow up there
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Hell, my 6th grade teacher said "Look you might not believe in God and not like our pledge, but when your in my class you put your hand on your heart and respect the rest that do."
If God has no right in schools then neither does evolution. In someways both should be separated into two special schools. Public schools should be the plain old boring schools that kids just go to do work and can believe what they want.[/QUOTE]
God hasn't been proven, God is not science, God has no place in a school.
Biology and Chemistry is to teach people how the world around them works. Evolution is proven, and we teach them that because anything related to life will require that knowledge.
However, Creationism offers no understand of life at all.
You see, you want students to be fascinated with nature and life, not be fascinated by someone they claim made it.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=TH89]Uh...FYI alaska is huge...they just draw it small on the maps...[/QUOTE]
I know Alaska is huge, but as a state (political association and rule), it's small. The area of influence in that place is really small.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=mephis]
All I know is that if they're disallowing individuals to pray to themselves in the school, then that's unconstitutional.[/QUOTE]
Students already have the right to pray in school. However the issue is how far does that go? Parents are going to have problems when their kid comes home and talks about how his friends at school convinced him to follow Jesus.
[QUOTE=thisispain]God hasn't been proven, God is not science, God has no place in a school.
Biology and Chemistry is to teach people how the world around them works. Evolution is proven, and we teach them that because anything related to life will require that knowledge.
However, Creationism offers no understand of life at all.
You see, you want students to be fascinated with nature and life, not be fascinated by someone they claim made it.
[/QUOTE]
Yea, but for all we know God started it all. If evolution is proven then why did one of you guys a few posts up say it was still a theory?
[QUOTE=fragmaplas]Let me guess, you're going to pull the old "It's just a theory!" argument, amirite?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Well, in my view they both are. As long as you respect me I respect you.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Nope. Well, in my view they both are. As long as you respect me I respect you.[/QUOTE]
Respect is to be earned.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]
If God has no right in schools then [B]neither does evolution[/B]. In someways both should be separated into two special schools. Public schools should be the plain old boring schools that [B]kids just go to do work[/B] and can believe what they want.[/QUOTE]
And people like you are the reason America's education is falling behind our secular competitors.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]
If God has no right in schools then neither does evolution. In someways both should be separated into two special schools. Public schools should be the plain old boring schools that kids just go to do work and can believe what they want.[/QUOTE]
no
your way wrong. Evolution is a proven science. God/intelligent design is not
With regard to all the "prayer in school" bullshit, I honestly expected better of you.
I grew up in the South. This debate is not new to me, and it pisses me off to no end.
People can still pray at school. They have been able to and always will. However, they are not allowed to lead in group prayer or hold functions where there is a prayer segment. Things of a personal matter such as one's religion should be kept to themselves, otherwise a tribal nature crops up among the kids based around religion. We all do it.
Think about it this way: Say at your school, there are a lot of people who like to fanatically play with Barbie dolls. They hold Barbie meetings and go on pony rides to the mall where they shop for fashion and whatever. That's all well and fine, but then they start bringing these Barbies to school. They take time out of class to whip out their Barbie dolls and start grooming the doll's hair and watching it turn pink with warm water. There is barrels of fun to be had, but what of the kids without any Barbie dolls? Sure, the kids with Barbies might share their dolls with someone less fortunate, but it is unlikely that the kid deprived of Barbie would show the same interest or vigor in tiny fashion. Then this group must confront the other group of kids who are really into Cabbage Patch Kids. How these two groups with wildly different worldviews react to one another is not really predictable, but even if everyone at the school played with Barbies, you still have a bunch of kids playing with Barbies together during school.
This is not a conductive learning environment. Leave the Barbies at home, or comb their hair on your own. Just keep it to yourself.
[QUOTE=thisispain]
Students already have the right to pray in school. However the issue is how far does that go? Parents are going to have problems when their kid comes home and talks about how his friends at school convinced him to follow Jesus.[/QUOTE]
So?
That seems like such a small thing for someone to get pissed about.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Yea, but for all we know God started it all. If evolution is proven then why did one of you guys a few posts up say it was still a theory?
[/QUOTE]
Well gravity is also a theory, thermodynamics is a theory, everything that Einstein wrote about relativity is a theory, cell-division theory is a theory.
However, all of those are essential in life. Gravity is something that allows people to know how mass reacts to the world. Thermodynamics allows us to understand how energy affects things around us. Einstein theories allows us to see into new dimensions. Cell-division gives us all those yummy medication that keeps people alive.
Please, stop talking about what's being taught in school, and go back to school.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=mephis]So?
That seems like such a small thing for someone to get pissed about.[/QUOTE]
I don't need people telling me how Moses is a false idol and I will be sent to hell for not believing in Jesus.
[QUOTE=fragmaplas]Respect is to be earned.[/QUOTE]
Yes great one.
:v:
I'm to tired to talk anymore about religion with you guys. I know I'll be jumped by like 3 at..oh wait they already did.
Good night my little non-believers :3:
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Yea, but for all we know God started it all. If evolution is proven then why did one of you guys a few posts up say it was [B]still a theory[/B]?[/QUOTE]
Here we go, who didn't see this coming.
The definition of the word theory in scientific context is different than the regular word theory we may use every day. While the un-scientific theory definition is "A guess", the scientific use of the word is much more complicated. You see, scientific hypotheses have gone through rigorous obstacles to be labeled a theory. They have proven themselves worthy in the scientific community through hundreds of tests, researching and making sure that it fits with new discoveries. Scientific theories are fact. Simple as that.
[QUOTE=thisispain]
I don't need people telling me how Moses is a false idol and I will be sent to hell for not believing in Jesus.[/QUOTE]
Free country and people have different views and opinions.
Get over it?
I'm sure they're equally as tired of being told God doesn't exist and having their religion shit all over.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Yes great one.
:v:
I'm to tired to talk anymore about religion with you guys. I know I'll be jumped by like 3 at..oh wait they already did.
Good night my little non-believers :3:[/QUOTE]
Yes, go to sleep because you need some school in you bad.
[QUOTE=thisispain]Yes, go to sleep because you need some school in you bad.[/QUOTE]
I'm still in school, but i'm guessing you don't really like me.
If I disrespected you then my bad. I apologize.
[QUOTE=mephis]Free country and people have different views and opinions.
Get over it?
I'm sure they're equally as tired of being told God doesn't exist and having their religion shit all over.[/QUOTE]
They cannot be equally tired since Christians represent 78% of the population.
People get ganged up for being Atheist, Jewish, Buddhist, etc. Not the other way around.
[QUOTE=mephis]So?
That seems like such a small thing for someone to get pissed about.[/QUOTE]
You must realize that children are about 1000x more impressionable than you would like to believe. You can get them to believe just about anything without them making any sort of conscious choice about what to believe.
And I don't want my child to make a choice that wasn't his or her own.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]I'm still in school, but i'm guessing you don't really like me.
If I disrespected you then my bad. I apologize.[/QUOTE]
Apologize to your teacher for not paying attention to him/her.
[QUOTE=thisispain]Apologize to your teacher for not paying attention to him/her.[/QUOTE]
Will do.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war]Will do.[/QUOTE]
No stop that, I can't be rude and condescending to nice people.
[QUOTE=thisispain]No stop that, I can't be rude and condescending to nice people.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure there is a clear solution somewhere.
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