[QUOTE=King Tiger;36375993]So only latino people can follow his beliefs then?
I'm astounded by the racism of both of your posts.[/QUOTE]
Can you maybe form an actual argument instead of posing rhetorical questions meant to misrepresent his argument?
[QUOTE=Stagan;36359834]He was a doctor before he was a revolutionary, so he can't have been awfully bad.[/QUOTE]
I find this incredibly naive. Doctors are regular people, capable of being horrible people just like anyone else. A good handful of them are even [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_physicians#Physicians_famous_as_criminals]serial killers.[/url]
[QUOTE=Paramud;36376085]Can you maybe form an actual argument instead of posing rhetorical questions meant to misrepresent his argument?[/QUOTE]
My question wasn't rhetorical; I don't think I understand what he's trying to say when he said "at least a latino wearing a che shirt makes sense."
[QUOTE=thisispain;36375671]at least a latino wearing a che shirt makes sense.[/QUOTE]
Che Guevara had an Irish grandmother and the rest of his family was Spanish/Basque. I never really got why Americans seem to class Spaniards as "not-white".
[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;36376868]Che Guevara had an Irish grandmother and the rest of his family was Spanish/Basque. I never really got why Americans seem to class Spaniards as "not-white".[/QUOTE]
well i'm referring more to the fact that Che Guevara sought socialist revolution for latin american nations.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36375993]So only latino people can follow his beliefs then?
I'm astounded by the racism of both of your posts.[/QUOTE]
god you're embarrassing
[url]http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/papers/caleb/racism.html[/url]
I am Argentinian. Let me tell you about Che Guevara. He was a communist. He was killed just because he was shadowing Castro. He did absolutely nothing aside from escaping and talking shit about our country, just to be followed by millions that don't have a single idea about who he is, or what he did. He wasn't as good as he is portrayed, and believe me, he isn't exemplary of anything. Just another "guerrillero".
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36366564]I wish people would stop judging historical figures only based on polar concepts like 'good' or 'bad'.
Even Stalin and Hitler, two of the most terrifying dictators have done good deeds. It is absolutely never as black and white as some people put it.
And to promote a notion of political polarity is to promote ignorance.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Joseph Stalin was a psychopath. Hitler, on the other hand, actually believed in the mythology that he created out of old mythologies across Europe and was motivated by it to do the things that he did.
[QUOTE=Lazor;36359898]simply calling Che "good" or "bad" isn't something you can do but fuck all the white college kids wearing those stupid urban outfitters t-shirts[/QUOTE]
agreed, allot of historical figures aren't good or bad, especially since that can be so subjective
[QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;36378053]Actually, Joseph Stalin was a psychopath. Hitler, on the other hand, actually believed in the mythology that he created out of old mythologies across Europe and was motivated by it to do the things that he did.[/QUOTE]
Hitler made Germany to stand on it's feet again, after Germany was getting all the blames for WWI.
Also the concept of ''German quality'' comes from Nazi Germany.
Regardless of his message, he killed people to spread it. This makes him [u] fundamentally[/u] bad in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;36386169]Regardless of his message, he killed people to spread it. This makes him [u] fundamentally[/u] bad in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
People have also killed to stop oppressive regimes from attempting to conquer the world, where those people also bad?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36387367]People have also killed to stop oppressive regimes from attempting to conquer the world, where those people also bad?[/QUOTE]
Not if they had to kill those supporting the oppressive regime in order to stop it.
Hitler committed a genocide. I'm pretty ok with calling Hitler a bad person.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36387367]People have also killed to stop oppressive regimes from attempting to conquer the world, where those people also bad?[/QUOTE]
Depends who they're killing and how they're doing it. It's heavily case-by-case.
Personally, I think Che brutally killed way more people than he had to, and he did it in some rather inhumane ways.
I think Che Guevara was motivated by good intentions, but was also somewhat corruptible, like many people. He did risk his life on numerous occasions for his beliefs, which earns him at least some respect. In the end, his influence was terrible and he pretty much ruined Cuba as a nation, along with killing countless South Americans. All in all, regardless of his intentions, he was wrong.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36377327]well i'm referring more to the fact that Che Guevara sought socialist revolution for latin american nations.[/QUOTE]
And Africa...
I may not like him, but I respect him for being able to stand up and fight for what he believed in, something his modern-day followers distinctly lack.
I think asking if he was a good or bad person is not the right question.
Rather, were his ideals right or wrong? I would say they're wrong as they, as people have stated, have messed up Cuba majorly along with South Americans. That's what we should learn from.
[QUOTE=Zally13;36407933]I think asking if he was a good or bad person is not the right question.
Rather, were his ideals right or wrong? I would say they're wrong as they, as people have stated, have messed up Cuba majorly along with South Americans. That's what we should learn from.[/QUOTE]
But most of those countries were far worse before he did anything and most of Cuba's problems are due to America's embargo, not Che
[QUOTE=Tampio;36386135]Hitler made Germany to stand on it's feet again, after Germany was getting all the blames for WWI.
Also the concept of ''German quality'' comes from Nazi Germany.[/QUOTE]
Gustav Stressemann made Germany stand on its feet again. The Great Depression is what destroyed Germany the second time and brought Hitler to power.
[editline]22nd June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;36393924]I think Che Guevara was motivated by good intentions, but was also somewhat corruptible, like many people. He did risk his life on numerous occasions for his beliefs, which earns him at least some respect. In the end, his influence was terrible and he pretty much ruined Cuba as a nation, along with killing countless South Americans. All in all, regardless of his intentions, he was wrong.[/QUOTE]
How did he ruin Cuba? If anything Castro fucked up Cuba by not developing its industry more. The South Americans? Pretty much only Bolivia. The Bolivians suffered more under the regime than they did when Che was trying to give them hope. Sure I don't agree with him on a lot of matters, but he still tried to bring about some equality.
[QUOTE=Earthen;36440137]How did he ruin Cuba? If anything Castro fucked up Cuba by not developing its industry more. The South Americans? Pretty much only Bolivia. The Bolivians suffered more under the regime than they did when Che was trying to give them hope. Sure I don't agree with him on a lot of matters, but he still tried to bring about some equality.[/QUOTE]
If by "bringing about some equality" you mean "killing everyone who disagrees with you", then I couldn't agree with you more.
Also, I'm surprised no one brought up the fact that Che helped to mastermind a foiled terrorist plot to [URL="http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/40274"]blow up three of the largest shopping malls in the United States on Black Friday.[/URL].
He's an interesting historical figure and I agree with everyone else saying that, like everything else in history ever, it transcends "good" and "bad". What I do know is to take most of the things you hear about him with a pinch of salt; it can be a little hard to seperate the myth from the fact, particularly when that person isn't around to set the record straight.
[QUOTE=electric926;36556499]If by "bringing about some equality" you mean "killing everyone who disagrees with you", then I couldn't agree with you more.
Also, I'm surprised no one brought up the fact that Che helped to mastermind a foiled terrorist plot to [URL="http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/40274"]blow up three of the largest shopping malls in the United States on Black Friday.[/URL].[/QUOTE]
I never said the killings were justified. Nobody deserves to die and those people should not have been killed nor should they have been imprisoned for their beliefs. However, he also wanted to improve the lives of average cubans, which happened and that is something admirable.
[QUOTE=electric926;36556499]If by "bringing about some equality" you mean "killing everyone who disagrees with you", then I couldn't agree with you more.
Also, I'm surprised no one brought up the fact that Che helped to mastermind a foiled terrorist plot to [URL="http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/40274"]blow up three of the largest shopping malls in the United States on Black Friday.[/URL].[/QUOTE]
Rofl, awesome source dude. These people try to claim communism and fascism are the same thing.
No thanks.
What he has achieved and fought for was inherently good.
As for him killing people,well he didn't kill people because he enjoyed but rather because there was no other way of achieving his cause,which i have already said was good.
[editline]2nd July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Earthen;36581368]I never said the killings were justified. Nobody deserves to die and those people should not have been killed nor should they have been imprisoned for their beliefs. However, he also wanted to improve the lives of average cubans, which happened and that is something admirable.[/QUOTE]
Exactly,killing people or imprisoning them for their beliefs is never justifiable,however his cause was admirable.
[editline]2nd July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=electric926;36556499]If by "bringing about some equality" you mean "killing everyone who disagrees with you", then I couldn't agree with you more.
Also, I'm surprised no one brought up the fact that Che helped to mastermind a foiled terrorist plot to [URL="http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/40274"]blow up three of the largest shopping malls in the United States on Black Friday.[/URL].[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://niggaupload.com/images/hN5U8.png[/IMG]
This motto itself yells:''I am biased as fuck towards rightist ideologies!''
If it means anything, that's not the original article I was trying to look for. I couldn't track down an online source for the more reliable article, but I figured a poor source is better than no source.
Good intentions gone bad, just like the rest of history.
[QUOTE=znk666;36588105]Exactly,killing people or imprisoning them for their beliefs is never justifiable,however his cause was admirable.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure the Cubans who were executed as enemies of the state and those who starved to death when the economy fell into a downward spiral would disagree.
Also, would [URL="http://www.autentico.org/oa09924.php"]this[/URL] be a more reliable source on the bomb plot?
Of course not. Planet of the Apes was a fine movie.
[QUOTE=electric926;36599886]I'm sure the Cubans who were executed as enemies of the state and those who starved to death when the economy fell into a downward spiral would disagree.
Also, would [URL="http://www.autentico.org/oa09924.php"]this[/URL] be a more reliable source on the bomb plot?[/QUOTE]
Can't you just find a wiki article for it or maybe some uni essay?
So trying to bring some equality to Cuba and actually making the country's industry develop and benefit the nation rather than foreign companies was wrong because people are starving 50 years later? IIRC Cuba was doing pretty damn well from the 60's to the 90's.
The economy went down the crapper because Castro stopped focusing on industrialisation and the US certainly did not help with its embargo.
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