• Project Venus - The Redisgn Of A Culture
    79 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre]Thread Music(seems somehow appropriate): [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0[/media][/QUOTE] Stop doing thread music! It doesn't make a difference!
i love when little kids watch a movie and then think they know everything on the subject
[QUOTE=.miniman.] [B]Technology and uses the full potential to shape out life.[/B][/QUOTE] This is where the dream crumbles, right there. I don't even need to reply to the rest. Most technology is not yet advanced enough to run free of human imput. As long as machines need to be operated/maintained, people will be working at doing so, and will certainly want to be paid for their services.
[QUOTE=Kalibos]This is where the dream crumbles, right there. I don't even need to reply to the rest. Most technology is not yet advanced enough to run free of human imput. As long as machines need to be operated/maintained, people will be working at doing so, and will certainly want to be paid for their services.[/QUOTE] Why not just assign everyone the same privileges, housing arrangements, food arrangements, etc, and have everyone rotate their job every week or something? Everyone would have the same training and the same skills and you wouldn't get stuck doing something you hate for too long.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus][B]Why not just assign everyone the same privileges, housing arrangements, food arrangements[/B], etc, and have everyone rotate their job every week or something? Everyone would have the same training and the same skills and you wouldn't get stuck doing something you hate for too long.[/QUOTE] Because not everybody possesses the required skills/brains/desire to be a brain surgeon, or a vehicle mechanic, or ______. To answer the bolded part: because it would be extremely mundane and boring.
[QUOTE=Kalibos]Because not everybody possesses the required skills/brains/desire to be a brain surgeon, or a vehicle mechanic, or ______. To answer the bolded part: because it would be extremely mundane and boring.[/QUOTE] That's true, not everyone could be a brain surgeon, but we could always find out who wants to be one, who has the aptitude, etc, then assign them to that duty. Everyone would have to work together and not be lazy, actually contribute to society. Also, boring? I don't see why, first of all, and second, the whole thing wouldn't work, in my opinion, because people can't think outside the box, think outside their current lifestyle. I don't think any society would work without any laws, but I think only really harmful crimes like murder, rape, kidnapping, etc., should be present and enforced. The people should enforce these laws and the person should be banished from the society outright. Obviously, by the time this sort of society comes about, we'll have advanced methods of determining who killed a person. It's already really hard to get away with murder except by human error/interference in the investigation/trial. I don't know how it would work exactly, so don't come down my throat with the details, human behaviour problems, previous attempts at any kind of similar, failed society. This has got to work at some point, maybe when it's absolutely necessary for our survival because our current way of life destroys everything, as it seems to be doing.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]That's true, not everyone could be a brain surgeon, but we could always find out who wants to be one, who has the aptitude, etc, then assign them to that duty. Everyone would have to work together and not be lazy, actually contribute to society. Also, boring? I don't see why, first of all, and second, the whole thing wouldn't work, in my opinion, because people can't think outside the box, think outside their current lifestyle. I don't think any society would work without any laws, but I think only really harmful crimes like murder, rape, kidnapping, etc., should be present and enforced. The people should enforce these laws and the person should be banished from the society outright. Obviously, by the time this sort of society comes about, we'll have advanced methods of determining who killed a person. It's already really hard to get away with murder except by human error/interference in the investigation/trial. I don't know how it would work exactly, so don't come down my throat with the details, human behaviour problems, previous attempts at any kind of similar, failed society. This has got to work at some point, maybe when it's absolutely necessary for our survival because our current way of life destroys everything, as it seems to be doing.[/QUOTE] What if [I]nobody[/I] wants to be a doctor? Or any other job? If a worked-to-the-bone doctor is paid the same as a relaxed cook? Why would you do it (other then a sense of moral decency, and how many people have that?)
[QUOTE=Splurgy]What if [I]nobody[/I] wants to be a doctor? Or any other job? If a worked-to-the-bone doctor is paid the same as a relaxed cook? Why would you do it (other then a sense of moral decency, and how many people have that?)[/QUOTE] Someone will fucking do it. The people who work hard and get those kinds of jobs do it because they want to contribute and it brings them personal satisfaction to do it. There will always be people who are willing to go the extra mile to help others and contribute. If no one rises up to do it, then too bad, we don't have brain operations. I doubt everyone will sit around and shrug at that however. Someone will see the need for the service and step up. People will need to get over their selfish desires and realize the bigger picture here, which seems pretty hard because every reply is in that mindset.
But selfishness is human. Ignoring a basic human attribute and saying 'my system is fine if only you weren't so bloody problematic' is daft, design a better system which does not rely on humans being non-human.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]Someone will fucking do it. The people who work hard and get those kinds of jobs do it because they want to contribute and it brings them personal satisfaction to do it. There will always be people who are willing to go the extra mile to help others and contribute. People will need to get over their selfish desires and realize the bigger picture here, which seems pretty hard because every reply is in that mindset.[/QUOTE] I'd be a doctor, because I like helping people (although I don't think I have the grades). But the point is if you had to choose between medical school and hard work, and leaving school and becoming independent at 16 for the same money, which would you pick? Not just doctors. Why do anything if there's no reward in it for you? A whole bunch of "altruistic" people would think twice if they were paid the same. And every reply is like this as it's the obvious flaw in your idea. A [I]lovely[/I] idea, but impractical. If you can't convince us hypothetically, how will you get us to actually do it?
[QUOTE=Splurgy]I'd be a doctor, because I like helping people (although I don't think I have the grades). But the point is if you had to choose between medical school and hard work, and leaving school and becoming independent at 16 for the same money, which would you pick? Not just doctors. Why do anything if there's no reward in it for you? A whole bunch of "altruistic" people would think twice if they were paid the same. And every reply is like this as it's the obvious flaw in your idea. A [I]lovely[/I] idea, but impractical.[/QUOTE] The reward is the fucking peaceful, productive society we would be living in.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]The reward is the fucking peaceful, productive society we would be living in.[/QUOTE] I'd get that either way. Oh, I'm just one person. What does it matter if [I]I[/I] slack off? (X 100,000,000)
More like Projecy [b]Penis[/b]
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]The reward is the fucking peaceful, productive society we would be living in.[/QUOTE] As far as I'm concerned I'm living in one now.
[QUOTE=Splurgy]I'd get that either way. Oh, I'm just one person. What does it matter if [I]I[/I] slack off? (X 100,000,000)[/QUOTE] There'd have to be a system in place to assure that you're contributing somehow.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]There'd have to be a system in place to assure that you're contributing somehow.[/QUOTE] Forced labour camps maybe?
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]There'd have to be a system in place to assure that you're contributing somehow.[/QUOTE] But then there'd have to be laws and a government. Which you said there wouldn't be.
[QUOTE=chris0132]As far as I'm concerned I'm living in one now.[/QUOTE] Where the fuck do you live, some tropical island by yourself? Did you build an automated wooden house with monkey servants like fuckin' Swiss Family Robinson? Come off it. I can't turn on the news without hearing about a child being kidnapped, someone having their head kicked in on the sidewalk for petty cash or some stupid coloured clothing/turf argument, some information about some war which seems to be a never ending things between countries, global warming, some religious [b]FUCKKNOB[/b] blowing up a subway or cafe, all this bullshit, the list goes on. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=Splurgy]But then there'd have to be laws and a government. Which you said there wouldn't be.[/QUOTE] Not a government. [b]Maybe[/b] some automated computer enforcement, for the severe crimes I mentioned. I don't really know how we'd prevent/punish severe crimes. You know those laws have to be in place. Also, the people would meet and discuss and vote on issues. Voting would have to be mandatory, just like working. Why would that be considered slavery? How about giving me some positive input instead of just saying, "I don't see how it works, it stinks and I don't like it"?
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]Where the fuck do you live, some tropical island by yourself? Did you build an automated wooden house with monkey servants like fuckin' Swiss Family Robinson? Come off it. I can't turn on the news without hearing about a child being kidnapped, someone having their head kicked in on the sidewalk for petty cash or some stupid coloured clothing/turf argument, some information about some war which seems to be a never ending things between countries, global warming, some religious [b]FUCKKNOB[/b] blowing up a subway or cafe, all this bullshit, the list goes on.[/QUOTE] England, northeast of England, in one of the biggest drug infested cities in the country. But I still like it here, I can go outside and buy something from the shop, I can get garlic bread with cheese on the top to go with my ready made mascarpone sauce and fresh chicken fillets. I haven't been killed, I'm eating good food and living in a nice house, and I have a good PC next to me which I saved for about a year for, I live a very good life, as do a hell of a lot of people in the world. Of course if you listen to the news you'd probably have a rather poor view of the world because the news doesn't report anything other than death and destruction, it's like if you lived in a volcano you might not be inclined to see the beauty of them. But my life is full of all sorts of wonderful things, as is the life of most of my friends, sure it's not perfect but nothing is, but by and large I get food to eat and a nice bed to sleep in, and I still have time to myself at the moment which I won't have forever but at the moment I'm happy. Unless you are a slave in some third world shithole, your life is also pretty damn good by most standards. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=Malumbrus]Not a government. [b]Maybe[/b] some automated computer enforcement, for the severe crimes I mentioned. I don't really know how we'd prevent/punish severe crimes. You know those laws have to be in place. Also, the people would meet and discuss and vote on issues. Voting would have to be mandatory, just like working. Why would that be considered slavery? How about giving me some positive input instead of just saying, "I don't see how it works, it stinks and I don't like it"?[/QUOTE] Ok, so instead of people running the country we have robots, presumably to remove human error from the system. Who builds the robots? Who maintains the robots? Who teaches the people who build and repair the robots? There is always room for human error.
[QUOTE=chris0132]England, northeast of England, in one of the biggest drug infested cities in the country. But I still like it here, I can go outside and buy something from the shop, I can get garlic bread with cheese on the top to go with my ready made mascarpone sauce and fresh chicken fillets. I haven't been killed, I'm eating good food and living in a nice house, and I have a good PC next to me which I saved for about a year for, I live a very good life, as do a hell of a lot of people in the world. Of course if you listen to the news you'd probably have a rather poor view of the world because the news doesn't report anything other than death and destruction, it's like if you lived in a volcano you might not be inclined to see the beauty of them. But my life is full of all sorts of wonderful things, as is the life of most of my friends, sure it's not perfect but nothing is, but by and large I get food to eat and a nice bed to sleep in, and I still have time to myself at the moment which I won't have forever but at the moment I'm happy. Unless you are a slave in some third world shithole, your life is also pretty damn good by most standards. [b]Edit:[/b] Ok, so instead of people running the country we have robots, presumably to remove human error from the system. Who builds the robots? Who maintains the robots? Who teaches the people who build and repair the robots? There is always room for human error.[/QUOTE] Look, I don't know how it would work out exactly, but I like the idea. I'd be willing to give up some of my freedom so that others who are less fortunate could have the same privileges. Everyone would be the same, there wouldn't be hatred and discrimination based on our class. Those snobby assholes who don't seem to fit in with anyone except other snobby, shallow pricks, gone. Uneducated, ignorant slobs, gone. Homeless people, gone. Fat people? Fucking gone, due to rationed meals at the appropriate, designated times, ie., breakfast, lunch, dinner and a dessert. I'm not sure if all of this was mentioned in the Venus project, it's more my own, ideal world.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]Look, I don't know how it would work out exactly, but I like the idea. I'd be willing to give up some of my freedom so that others who are less fortunate could have the same privileges. Everyone would be the same, there wouldn't be hatred and discrimination based on our class. Those snobby assholes who don't seem to fit in with anyone except other snobby, shallow pricks, gone. Uneducated, ignorant slobs, gone. Homeless people, gone. Fat people? Fucking gone, due to rationed meals at the appropriate, designated times, ie., breakfast, lunch, dinner and a dessert. I'm not sure if all of this was mentioned in the Venus project, it's more my own, ideal world.[/QUOTE] Oh [B]right[/B] I understand. You haven't the faintest idea whatsoever how it would work but you [B]like the idea.[/B] Well that's all right then, we all like ideas. I for example like the idea that I have magical powers. In fact I like it so much and spend so much time imagining that I have them that just the other day it took me about three seconds to figure out why I couldn't fly to my next lecture at university, and then I realised that it was because I didn't actually have wings. I can't imagine why this would be because I really like the idea of being able to fly by magic and isn't liking it all that's neccesary? Surely means and methods are for other people, but if I really believe in it, it's got to happen properly, right? Right...?
[QUOTE=chris0132]Oh [B]right[/B] I understand. You haven't the faintest idea whatsoever how it would work but you [B]like the idea.[/B] Well that's all right then, we all like ideas. I for example like the idea that I have magical powers. In fact I like it so much and spend so much time imagining that I have them that just the other day it took me about three seconds to figure out why I couldn't fly to my next lecture at university, and then I realised that it was because I didn't actually have wings. I can't imagine why this would be because I really like the idea of being able to fly by magic and isn't liking it all that's neccesary? Surely means and methods are for other people, but if I really believe in it, it's got to happen properly, right? Right...?[/QUOTE] I never said it's going to work out. And comparing a better society to obtaining magic powers and wings and all that shit is hardly the same, isn't it? I don't personally know how it would work, no, but that's where cooperation and the right attitude would come in. [b]IT'S NOT JUST UP TO ME TO WORK IT OUT.[/b] If everyone just sat around going "I like cheesey garlic toast, fuck you, it'll never work anyway", then there's no fucking chance, is there? That was a shit argument from you, chris. I expect better. Fuck your garlic cheese toast.
Ohhhhh... well if you [B]like the idea...[/B] of course it's a good idea in theory (although it sounds an awful lot like communism), but it will never work. It goes against many basic human instincts, and until we evolve a greater intelligence it will never work outside of theory.
[QUOTE=Kalibos]Ohhhhh... well if you [B]like the idea...[/B] of course it's a good idea in theory (although it sounds an awful lot like communism), but it will never work. It goes against many basic human instincts, and until we evolve a greater intelligence it will never work outside of theory.[/QUOTE] Communism works on paper. I like communism in its proper form. Selfish assholes fuck it up.
I'd also like to point out that you can't "design" a culture change. Civilizations change by themselves gradually over a long period of time. You can't simply force a new structure - there's another fatal flaw.
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]I never said it's going to work out. And comparing a better society to obtaining magic powers and wings and all that shit is hardly the same, isn't it? I don't personally know how it would work, no, but that's where cooperation and the right attitude would come in. [b]IT'S NOT JUST UP TO ME TO WORK IT OUT.[/b] If everyone just sat around going "I like cheesey garlic toast, fuck you, it'll never work anyway", then there's no fucking chance, is there? That was a shit argument from you, chris. I expect better. Fuck your garlic cheese toast.[/QUOTE] You have, I trust, heard the expression that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic? Just because I don't know how to do it doesn't mean it can't be done, so yes I'd say it's more or less exactly the same.
Basically, the general trend is that it's a great idea but relies on people being morally sound. Including Facepunch. However, most of the people on Facepunch would apparently willingly destroy the system through violence just to prove it couldn't work. Therefore, the simplest, utilitarian solution is to euthanize everyone registered on Facepunch :v: [b]Try and disprove it when you're dead, fuckers![/b] :keke: (Wouldn't even try committing mass 4Chan Genocide. They can have a continent or two... nuke it as much as they want, that sorta' shit.)
[QUOTE=.miniman.]Project Venus is kinda like communism and anarchy I guess[/QUOTE] It works for 10 minutes?
[QUOTE=Malumbrus]Look, I don't know how it would work out exactly, but I like the idea. I'd be willing to give up some of my freedom so that others who are less fortunate could have the same privileges. Everyone would be the same, there wouldn't be hatred and discrimination based on our class. Those snobby assholes who don't seem to fit in with anyone except other snobby, shallow pricks, gone. Uneducated, ignorant slobs, gone. Homeless people, gone. Fat people? Fucking gone, due to rationed meals at the appropriate, designated times, ie., breakfast, lunch, dinner and a dessert. I'm not sure if all of this was mentioned in the Venus project, it's more my own, ideal world.[/QUOTE] All people are not born equal. If everyone was given the same meal, some people would still be fat due to slow metabolisms and the exact opposite for slow ones. There will always be people born at a disadvantage and treating them as just any other person would be a disservice to them.
[QUOTE=chris0132]You have, I trust, heard the expression that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic? Just because I don't know how to do it doesn't mean it can't be done, so yes I'd say it's more or less exactly the same.[/QUOTE] No, I actually haven't heard that and I wouldn't think that about an advanced piece of technology, whether I lived to see it created or aliens brought it to our planet and shared it. Where does this apply, medieval times?
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