Far-right activist Richard Spencer is punched on camera while being interviewed - General

[QUOTE=Swiket;51701614]yes it is[/QUOTE] No. In fact, even if someone is in fact a Nazi or an extremist of any other political alignment or ideology, but doesn't in fact infringe on other people's rights, you're worse than him. Even if he is being a colossal twat.

[QUOTE=MasterKade;51701535][I]Why[/I] was he doing an interview out in public at the exact place where protests were happening?[/QUOTE] feels like I've seen a few "poor alt-right dude attacked by blacks/evil feminazis, this is why we're scared to speak out" newsposts in [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1548661]recent[/url] memory* where it feels like the situation was blatantly baited like that, because the news of getting blocked/blasted by protest is headline material that can spark outrage without having to read any context *could just be due to tudd's saturation of polarized threads about feminists and protesters/BLM acting out but hey

[QUOTE=SirJon;51701622]No. In fact, even if someone is in fact a Nazi or an extremist of any other political alignment or ideology, but doesn't in fact infringe on other people's rights, you're worse than him. Even if he is being a colossal twat.[/QUOTE] What about my right to not be persecuted for my choices/lifestyle? Say I'm a gay Muslim born in America or whatever and here are people like Richard Spencer telling me that I shouldn't exist and that my home country should get rid of me. Why is his right to not be punched for his deplorable and medieval views more important than my right to not be prejudiced against?

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701637]What about my right to not be persecuted for my choices/lifestyle? Say I'm a gay Muslim born in America or whatever and here are people like Richard Spencer telling me that I shouldn't exist and that my home country should get rid of me. Why is his right to not be punched for his deplorable and medieval views more important than my right to not be prejudiced against?[/QUOTE] Well, if you think his speech gives you the right to punch him, who is to say he doesn't have the right to punch you? He doesn't approve of your life choices, and you don't approve of his. If you feel persecuted, you can take action against it. Not violent action however.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701637]What about my right to not be persecuted for my choices/lifestyle? Say I'm a gay Muslim born in America or whatever and here are people like Richard Spencer telling me that I shouldn't exist and that my home country should get rid of me. Why is his right to not be punched for his deplorable and medieval views more important than my right to not be prejudiced against?[/QUOTE] Because one is words and can be rationally debated and the other is violence. And legally speaking, there is a freedom of expression in the US which is designed to protect unpopular ideas, even if they're disgusting and deplorable. It's why I find the story of Daryl Davis to be absolutely fascinating, what he did just by conversing and talking with important members of the KKK, debating them like human beings and giving them their platform, going to their rallies, he made people give up their racist views like that. And that's a powerful thing imo.

[QUOTE=SirJon;51701643]Well, if you think his speech gives you the right to punch him, who is to say he doesn't have the right to punch you? If you feel persecuted, you can take action against it. Not violent action however.[/QUOTE] What action can I take? People like Richard Spencer are obviously protected by free speech laws and whatnot (hence why he's still out there, broadcasting his bile) and can dog-whistle as much as they want. What preventative measure can I take so he doesn't incite his supporters to attack people like me?

All I can say is that he's lucky the other dude can't throw a punch worth shit. This is coming from someone who has never heard of him before today.

[QUOTE=bdd458;51701648]Because one is words and can be rationally debated [/QUOTE] Flatly incorrect.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701656]What action can I take?[/quote] Debate him like a person. Put out your own books/pamphlets/website/whatever debunking his ideas and claims. That's the action you can take.

[QUOTE=srobins;51701611]Has Spencer actually advocated for putting people in ovens, or any form of violence for that matter?[/QUOTE] of course he hasn't fucking advocated putting people in ovens, he has to be subtle about these things or people would get the wrong idea! he did tweet "praise be to kek" on his twitter though which is actually worse lol

this is the best, I love it

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701668]Flatly incorrect.[/QUOTE] No, it's not incorrect. It's true. Just look at the fucking article I posted a few posts ago, high ranking members of the KKK gave up their views in part because a black man decided to figure out what makes people racist, and talked with them, and debated with them.

Until he does something other than talking shit and holding shit opinions, it would be wrong to escalate to violence.

[QUOTE=bdd458;51701676]No, it's not incorrect. It's true. Just look at the fucking article I posted a few posts ago, high ranking members of the KKK gave up their views in part because a black man decided to figure out what makes people racist, and talked with them, and debated with them.[/QUOTE] if you expect all black men to have peaceful dialogues with a murderous racist cabal out to kill them you're deluded

[QUOTE=bdd458;51701670]Debate him like a person. Put out your own books/pamphlets/website/whatever debunking his ideas and claims. That's the action you can take.[/QUOTE] I'm a pretty strong supporter of almost entirely unrestricted free speech, but let me play devil's advocate for a moment: people like Richard Spencer want to institute policies that oppress certain classes of people. If they are successful (via nothing but "speech" and the democratic process), these oppressive policies will now by backed by the law, i.e. by law enforcement, i.e. by men with guns. So they are de facto removing your rights by force. At what point is it justified to defend your rights via your own physical force in that scenario? Certainly we'd all agree if they're shipping your kind off to the furnaces, that line has been crossed, so where was it crossed?

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701656]What action can I take? People like Richard Spencer are obviously protected by free speech laws and whatnot (hence why he's still out there, broadcasting his bile) and can dog-whistle as much as they want. What preventative measure can I take so he doesn't incite his supporters to attack people like me?[/QUOTE] Well, that depends on the particular situation. You can't disallow him from voicing his opinion, as he can't disallow you from voicing yours. You're protected by free speech laws too, and can do whatever he can. You can voice your opinion on the subject, even that's a better measure than violence. I'm not a lawyer, and I wouldn't be the right person to give you specifics, but if you were to be personally harassed by people such as him, you obviously can take legal action against him.

"Yay for dissenting voices being silenced with violence! Because fascism is bad!" The hypocrisy, holy fuck.

[QUOTE=Turnips5;51701690]if you expect all black men to have peaceful dialogues with a murderous racist cabal out to kill them you're deluded[/QUOTE] I don't expect everyone to. But if someone wants to take action, the best way to do it is through protest and healthy dialogue. Not violence. An example from Davis [quote]In an exchange that could fit into a Quentin Tarantino movie, a white supremacist once told Davis that “black people have a gene that makes them violent.” Davis waited a bit and asked the man to name three black serial killers. The man thought for a while but could name none. Davis rattled off a half-dozen white serial killers. To extrapolate on the man’s logic, Davis told him that white people have a serial killer gene. “Well, that just sounds stupid,” said the man. Davis smiled, making his point. Talking to Klansmen “has worked for me and I’ve proven it,” said Davis. “I appeal to people’s common sense. I don’t seek to convert them but if they spend time with me, they can’t hate me. [The Klansman] sees that I want the same thing for my family as he does for his. . .If you can work on the things in common, that’s how you build friendship.” [/quote] [url]http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-ca-film-accidental-courtesy-20161205-story.html[/url] but hey, punching people gets more done right :^)

[QUOTE=bdd458;51701676]No, it's not incorrect. It's true. Just look at the fucking article I posted a few posts ago, high ranking members of the KKK gave up their views in part because a black man decided to figure out what makes people racist, and talked with them, and debated with them.[/QUOTE] He has the rest of the KKK to go, it seems. I know the story of Daryl Davis is an impressive one, but one example 30 years ago is not going to change my mind. If people like Richard Spencer were able to be rationed with to begin with, he wouldn't be a head of a neo-nazi movement. Modern society already [I]knows [/I]what makes people racist, and there already [I]are [/I]opportunities for racists to discover why they're wrong, yet people are still racist.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701731]He has the rest of the KKK to go, it seems. I know the story of Daryl Davis is an impressive one, but one example 30 years ago is not going to change my mind. If people like Richard Spencer were able to be rationed with to begin with, he wouldn't be a head of a neo-nazi movement. Modern society already [I]knows [/I]what makes people racist, and there already [I]are [/I]opportunities for racists to discover why they're wrong, yet people are still racist.[/QUOTE] So you propose acting violently against people that you arbitrarily say are not able to be reasoned with? If people don't discover that they're wrong, they deserve to be punched?

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;51701701]"Yay for dissenting voices being silenced with violence! Because fascism is bad!" The hypocrisy, holy fuck.[/QUOTE] When the other side is literal goddamn fascism, it's hardly hypocritical.

[QUOTE=SirJon;51701697]Well, that depends on the particular situation. You can't disallow him from voicing his opinion, as he can't disallow you from voicing yours. You're protected by free speech laws too, and can do whatever he can. You can voice your opinion on the subject, even that's a better measure than violence.[/QUOTE] So I can out-shout him, then? If I'm in a clear minority, and his kind are in law enforcement and government, the odds are a little stacked against me. No one is going to listen to me and he has convinced his supporters I'm scum.

[QUOTE=Levithan;51701736]When the other side is literal goddamn fascism, it's hardly hypocritical.[/QUOTE] Well, then you've got fascists on both sides. That doesn't help at all, does it now.

This thread was a good read. Now I know that if there is someone that I disagree with, I can just punch them. Phew, I almost thought I had to learn debating and arguments and such. Off to the Klan Rally I go, I gotta tell the fellas about this.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701731]If people like Richard Spencer were able to be rationed with to begin with, he wouldn't be a head of a neo-nazi movement.[/QUOTE] On what grounds are you making that statement? How do you know that? Again, drawing from the Davis example one of the men he helped convince to give up the KKK ended up being the national leader - so I'm not really sure your logic is sound. I don't know much about Spencer, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with his upbringing and the people he's been around. So again, I'm not really sure anyone can definitely say "yes this man can not be reasoned with simply because he is a racist". [QUOTE=Samiam22;51701731]Modern society already [I]knows [/I]what makes people racist, and there already [I]are [/I]opportunities for racists to discover why they're wrong, yet people are still racist.[/QUOTE] The same can be said about the 80s, 90s, and 00s, and now. But that doesn't mean you should go around punching them instead of trying to have an actual debate or conversation.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701737]So I can out-shout him, then? If I'm in a clear minority, and his kind are in law enforcement and government, the odds are a little stacked against me. No one is going to listen to me and he has convinced his supporters I'm scum.[/QUOTE] You still have the same rights as him, and are protected, especially as a minority. What especially won't help anyone at all in this scenario (and in fact will only make things worse for you) is resorting to violence.

[QUOTE=Levithan;51701736]When the other side is literal goddamn fascism, it's hardly hypocritical.[/QUOTE] He is a massive dick waffle, no doubt about it. But until he puts his shit into practice, he's just an opinionated idiot. Meanwhile, you're advocating fighting the rise of fascists by [I]preemptively[/I] becoming the fascist.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;51701757]He is a massive dick waffle, no doubt about it. But until he puts his shit into practice, he's just an opinionated idiot. Meanwhile, you're advocating fighting the rise of fascists by [I]preemptively[/I] becoming the fascist.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SirJon;51701739]Well, then you've got fascists on both sides. That doesn't help at all, does it now.[/QUOTE] what do you define fascism as?

What does punching this man achieve? Has he changed his ways? No. Has he stopped his preaching? No. Have you dissuaded like-minded individuals? No. Have you brought joy to thousands? Yes!!!

[QUOTE=Waffle cones.;51701751]wow this post was clever and added a lot[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Waffle cones.;51701502]this but unironically[/QUOTE]