Far-right activist Richard Spencer is punched on camera while being interviewed - General

[QUOTE=abcpea;51701759]What does punching this man achieve? Has he changed his ways? No. Has he stopped his preaching? No. Have you dissuaded like-minded individuals? No. Have you brought joy to thousands? Yes!!![/QUOTE] Have you entrenched the Alt-right even more in their ideology? Yes. Have you given more justification for their "white genocide" arguments? Yes!!! If some pink-haired side-cut antifa she-twink gets American History X’ed tomorrow on Pennsylvania Avenue, this fucking idiot who punched Spencer is one of the main reasons that happened. The best tactic would be to fuel the infighting in the Alt Right instead of giving them the illusion that they are under attack and will now unite against an enemy.

[QUOTE=Swiket;51701758]what do you define fascism as?[/QUOTE] someone using violence to achieve their aims, for instance famous fascists such as winston churchill and georgy zhukov

[QUOTE=abcpea;51701759]What does punching this man achieve? Has he changed his ways? No. Has he stopped his preaching? No. Have you dissuaded like-minded individuals? No. Have you brought joy to thousands? Yes!!![/QUOTE] Have you entrenched him and his likes in their misguided views? Yes!!! And that's at the very least. Worse case scenario, you've gotten them sympathizers.

[QUOTE=SirJon;51701734]So you propose acting violently against people that you arbitrarily say are not able to be reasoned with? If people don't discover that they're wrong, they deserve to be punched?[/QUOTE] If you, in the 21st century age of information, willingly sign up to an ideology of hate, then I'm not going to feel sympathetic in the slightest. I know human beings are emotional and short-sighted, and thinking rationally is hard, but this western society where free speech is so paramount that it gave birth to a new movement of fascism is not going to end well no matter what happens. We've got to the point where neo-nazis hang out with their neo-nazi friends and get their news from neo-nazi websites who literally make stuff up, and every time there's a civil disobedient protest (as opposed to those protests that are out of sight and out of mind) or physical altercation, these people feel vindicated. They don't want to know the truth. They want to be right, and every time a member of a race/walk of life they deem "degenerate" gets upset enough to get into an altercation, they feel justified. They get upset that the people they want to exterminate are assaulting them for their views. If your belief is hatred of others based on the colour of their skin, then your belief should not be protected.

[QUOTE=Swiket;51701758]what do you define fascism as?[/QUOTE] Well it's a long and complicated issue, but the violent suppression of ideas and opinions is definitely a big chunk of it.

alt-right is not fascist [QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;51702338]also the alt-right are just disillusioned conservatives, i wouldn't call them fascists as it appears to be a completely social movement and lacking wide support for fascist ideals such as corporatism (and fascism isn't inherently racist, just the weird german brand)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701745]This thread was a good read. Now I know that if there is someone that I disagree with, I can just punch them. Phew, I almost thought I had to learn debating and arguments and such. Off to the Klan Rally I go, I gotta tell the fellas about this.[/QUOTE] What have liberals been doing for the last decade? Now we have splinter far right groups and leaders in every major country making huge political gains. UKIP, National Front, Trump, Duterte, etc. Clearly debating has not been working and now we are paying the price. The only time anything progressive gets done is through pain and turmoil. The early to mid 1900's saw huge positive social change in many countries in part due to the Great Depression, and in part due to the wars(WW1,WW2,Vietnam). The French Revolution saw the greatest political upheaval ever, as well some of the most positive social changes ever, and it was carried out by pissed of people everywhere that would be essentially the "liberals" of today, with the Right Wing of the time period being the monarchists. I am not condoning violent revolution or something, but it's time for the liberal parties to stop being professional and start fighting dirty. Trump won by looking tough and saying the awful shit his supporters couldn't say themselves in public, Hillary took the diplomatic approach and she looked weak.

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51701805]The French Revolution saw the greatest political upheaval ever, as well some of the most positive social changes ever, and it was carried out by pissed of people everywhere that would be essentially the "liberals" of today, with the Right Wing of the time period being the monarchists. [/QUOTE] Yeah, about that. That also involved the murder of over 40,000 people. It was literally called the reign of terror.

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51701805]What have liberals been doing for the last decade?[/QUOTE] Calling anyone whiter than Morgan Freeman racists, not talking to the right and legalizing pot.

Keep them out of power, belittle them, debate them, correct them. But don't lash out like a rebellious teen and assault them, that is petty, childish, and unproductive. I am disappointed seeing so many of you throw away your morals to combat immoral thinking, egging this kind of behavior on.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51701731]He has the rest of the KKK to go, it seems. I know the story of Daryl Davis is an impressive one, but one example 30 years ago is not going to change my mind. If people like Richard Spencer were able to be rationed with to begin with, he wouldn't be a head of a neo-nazi movement. Modern society already [I]knows [/I]what makes people racist, and there already [I]are [/I]opportunities for racists to discover why they're wrong, yet people are still racist.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I would imagine it's because they're not actively seeking it out because they think they're absolutely right and therefore feel like they don't need to. I would imagine the way they feel about anti-discrimination is similar to how most people on here probably feel about the idea of animal rights.

[QUOTE=bdd458;51701747]On what grounds are you making that statement? How do you know that? Again, drawing from the Davis example one of the men he helped convince to give up the KKK ended up being the national leader - so I'm not really sure your logic is sound. I don't know much about Spencer, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with his upbringing and the people he's been around. So again, I'm not really sure anyone can definitely say "yes this man can not be reasoned with simply because he is a racist". The same can be said about the 80s, 90s, and 00s, and now. But that doesn't mean you should go around punching them instead of trying to have an actual debate or conversation.[/QUOTE] Here's the front page of Breitbart's "big government" tab from the top of its page. [img]http://i.imgur.com/JrIWbUk.png[/img] This is the kind of stuff the neo-nazis of today are reading on a daily basis. The kind of journalism written to be as comforting and pandering as possible. Everything here ranges from reworded-to-fit-biases to outright falsehoods. The powers of an echo-chamber are actually quite strong. Like I said earlier, this is an age of information when material that agrees with you, no matter how divorced from reality it might be, is available at the touch of a button, whenever you want it. People slag off Tumblr for enabling all sorts of weird gender identity politics and 3rd wave feminism, and sites like Breitbart are the opposite side of the same exact coin. Echo chambers as far as the eye can see. This just wasn't around back in Davis' day. The common man didn't have internet and might not have even been bothered to read the newspaper. Klans would meet up occasionally and talk about things. They were not bombarded with falsified stories of how blacks were the devil every second of every day, most of the time they were just born into racist-because-they're-different households and made friends with people who were the same way. And for every story like Davis', there's 2 more about someone like Emmett Till or Isaac Woodard.

[QUOTE=Thlis;51701810]Yeah, about that. That also involved the murder of over 40,000 people.[/QUOTE] How many millions do you think those royalists and nobles indirectly killed throughout history by hoarding all the wealth? Do you think any of those nobles and royalists that were killed suffered the effects of the food shortages that plagued France at the time? The murders weren't justified, and they should have imprisoned them instead, but certainly you can understand their reasoning, as emotion driven as it may have been?

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701815]Calling anyone whiter than Morgan Freeman racists, not talking to the right and legalizing pot.[/QUOTE] 1. absolutely does not happen without justification 2. I'm assuming by that you mean they aren't working with them by instituting their god awful ideals? 3. is literally an example of liberals getting something positive done? Why should people be jailed with actual criminals for smoking weed?

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51701831]How many millions do you think those royalists and nobles indirectly killed throughout history by hoarding all the wealth? Do you think any of those nobles and royalists that were killed suffered the effects of the food shortages that plagued France at the time? [B]The murders weren't justified[/B], and they should have imprisoned them instead, but certainly you can understand their reasoning, as emotion driven as it may have been?[/QUOTE] It's irrelevant seeing as the person being punched isn't a noble or a government official, and by your own admittance you seem to be showing that vigilante/mob violence is not something to be proud of.

[QUOTE=Waffle cones.;51701833]because conservatives are famous for being very open to compromise[/quote] There is a quote from Sartre that's quite apposite [quote]Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for arguing is past.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Zombinie;51701822]Keep them out of power, belittle them, debate them, correct them. But don't lash out like a rebellious teen and assault them, that is petty, childish, and unproductive.[/QUOTE] This. Bad ideas must be rooted out at an early stage through commucation and debate, not just ignored like a cancer tumor until it's too late. The alt-right is the cancer tumor that grew while the social justice crowed/left wing worked on safe spaces with videos of puppies and cookie dough. An open door policy with an on-campus therapist might have been a good idea, but now therapy dogs and other initiatives are laughed off immediately because "hurr durr are you an ess jay dubya?". This is why debate and communication is important.

Do people really have a problem with Nazis getting punched? I say squash the cockroaches before they infest the place. Don't forget that nazi ideals once threatened the entire planet

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701778] If some pink-haired side-cut antifa she-twink gets American History X’ed tomorrow on Pennsylvania Avenue, this fucking idiot who punched Spencer is one of the main reasons that happened.[/QUOTE] words are good. i like words. i don't think we should be using violence but this is a really silly post. you give a clear logic for why that happens, you also imply there's a clear logic for why this guy punched spencer, given that he'd probably justify it in the exact same way, with bringing up past crimes of the other side and all. read: logical =/= reasonable it also has a really creepy vindictive tone to it but that's beside the point. the point is that the people who agree with the violence aren't going to be swayed by you explaining their logic, with a side of fear mongering

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51701805]What have liberals been doing for the last decade?[/QUOTE] That's one big spectrum. Some have tried to debate reasonably, but you can't deny that in recent times, a substantial number of liberal-aligned people have done nothing but shouting down and insulting anyone that didn't kiss their highly opinionated ass. They retreated into ~safe spaces~, isolated themselves from anything that didn't conform to their worldviews, and tried to pass their opinions as the only ones worth listening to. Now the other side is resorting to extremes by electing the craziest weirdos just to get a hint of representation (and possibly out of spite towards the more extreme left), and it's not surprising in the slightest. [QUOTE]Trump won by looking tough and saying the awful shit his supporters couldn't say themselves in public[/QUOTE] Could be. It could also be that America had to pick between two turds and ended up choosing the funnier one.

I don't exactly praise for the punching of this man, but I don't think it's an "awful display of hypocrisy" either.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51701858]Do people really have a problem with Nazis getting punched? I say squash the cockroaches before they infest the place. Don't forget that nazi ideals once threatened the entire planet[/QUOTE] So did Communism but I doubt you'd argue in favor of belting them

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51701858]Do people really have a problem with Nazis getting punched? I say squash the cockroaches before they infest the place. Don't forget that nazi ideals once threatened the entire planet[/QUOTE] When are you starting your militia?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51701861]it also has a really creepy vindictive tone to it but that's beside the point. the point is that the people who agree with the violence aren't going to be swayed by you explaining their logic, with a side of fear mongering[/QUOTE] I was thinking of something along this line. Feels like a "we'll react with violence but we're in the right this time" reply.

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51701845]1. absolutely does not happen without justification [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/there_is_no_such_thing_as_a_good_trump_voter.html[/url] [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/screw_your_feelings_trump_voters.html[/url] [url]http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-donald-trump-american-voices-20161113-story.html[/url] [url]http://www.infowars.com/shock-video-black-mob-viciously-beats-white-trump-voter/[/url] [QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51701845] 2. I'm assuming by that you mean they aren't working with them by instituting their god awful ideals? [/QUOTE] I mean more like the Obama LGBT-liaision simply refusing to work with the republican gay groups; [url]https://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/the-gay-republican-moment?utm_term=.rskEXjO65#.ufq9ep6mA[/url] 3. Nobody ever talks about the dangers of marijuana and marijuana induced psychosis from misuse over longer periods of time.

Doesn't deserve to get punched but I'm not going to pretend to feel sorry for him.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51701871]When are you starting your militia?[/QUOTE] "Let's not take the rise of nazism seriously, because surely that could never happen in the modern day, right?" says increasingly nervous man

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51701858]I say squash the cockroaches before they infest the place.[/QUOTE] I feel like I've already heard something like that before, except it was in German.

[QUOTE=Thlis;51701846]It's irrelevant seeing as the person being punched isn't a noble or a government official, and by your own admittance you seem to be showing that vigilante/mob violence is not something to be proud of.[/QUOTE] My point is that if Liberals don't nip this in the bud in some way, these "alt-right" groups could become the monarchists of their time. Trump is a (alleged) multi-billionaire, with a cabinet comprised of the wealthy, and a Vice President that openly wants to eliminate the rights of LGBT groups. Mind you, this all occurring in a time when wealth inequality is at it's highest in who knows how long. This is not too far from the realities of the time of the French Revolution, it's just sugarcoated nowadays.

bash the fash