Far-right activist Richard Spencer is punched on camera while being interviewed - General

Naturally all the edgy teens think this is awesome, but what they don't realize is attacks like this are a boon for the target. It gives them more attention and adds credence to their views. If you want to defeat their views, engage and refute. Don't wade in and make your side of the argument look like thugs.

The first step to radicalization is to dehumanize others. The reaction to the "far-right" and supposed "nazis" only further entrenches them in their opinions and will allow them to justify their future actions for injustices today.

[QUOTE=xagnu;51702007]It gives them more attention and adds credence to their views.[/QUOTE] i remember like a year or two ago there was some kkk rally in like california where some people started attacking the kkk. the thing is, no one would have heard about that rally outside of the few people attending and maybe those that read the local newspaper if they ended up running a story out of it, but because those opposed to the kkk started using violence it made national news, I heard about it on the other side of the fucking country.

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701987]Because being a nazi automatically means you want to exterminate all subhumans. Just like being a muslim automatically makes you a suicide bomber, and that being a socialist automatically makes you want to send political dissidents into gulags for the next 40 years.[/QUOTE] "He advocates for a white homeland for a "dispossessed white race" and calls for "peaceful ethnic cleansing" to halt the "deconstruction" of European culture." -Wikipedia I mean, shit, that's enough for me not to cry when he gets punched in the middle of NYC, not enough to make me dumb enough to be the one to do it, but not enough to make me cry over it. I can't see how the fuck peaceful ethnic cleansing is supposed to work, unless it involved outfucking the other guys or 'encouraging' them to move out of your neighbourhood.

How liberalism became synonymous with nazi apologetics is beyond me. We are so fucked.

A lot of people are shaming the violence, rightfully I might add, but I cringe a little when people say "Don't use violence, debate them!". To those people who say that, have you ever argued about politics with them? Ad hominem, strawmanning, cherry-picking, red herrings. I literally had to learn and read up about fallacies in order to deal with their bullshit. I would personally LOVE ABSOLUTELY LOVE if there was a calm, cool, and clear-headed Alt-Right user on here but I can't name one. Violence isn't the answer but to a lot of the more emotional people who are affected by Trump's administration, it feels like the only solution.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702004] Preaching and encouraging hate IS violence.[/QUOTE] Me saying "Fogooman should be killed" is not violence. Me taking an axe and violently beating you is violence. It's not violence until it's physical. Preaching and encouraging hate is immoral, wrong and rarely, if ever, justified. But it's not violence.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51702029] Violence isn't the answer but to a lot of the more emotional people who are affected by Trump's administration, it feels like the only solution.[/QUOTE] Can we dispel the usual "I know ____ is wrong, but people's feelings"? It doesn't matter if they feel that assaulting people is the only solution or if that's just one option they chose, they are still wrong.

The central thesis here is that violence is the only answer when facing neo-nazis. Why is it that the moment I ask them how they would assault these people, everyone sits down and shuts up? Do they not really believe that violence is the answer, and that peaceful options can still be explored? If that's the case why would they argue against peaceful options so fervently? Why would someone call for violence, only to be unwilling to do it themselves and be complicit in the growth of neo-nazism? None of this argument makes sense to me. It's full of feels before reals.

imagine thinking you'd talk this guy out of his opinion

Pictured: Cowardly SJW resorting to assault because he can't win a verbal argument [img]http://i.imgur.com/cRfLG7a.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Thlis;51702036]Can we dispel the usual "I know it's wrong but peoples feelings" It doesn't matter if they feel that assaulting people is the only solution or if that's just one option they chose, they are still wrong.[/QUOTE] Oh I'm not saying that they're not wrong. They're wrong on every single level that they could be right or wrong. I'm just trying to answer the question "Why on earth would this idiot do this?"

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701987]Because being a nazi automatically means you want to exterminate all subhumans.[/QUOTE] Yeah it generally does. I can't really think of any positives to being a nazi. they didn't like smokers i guess

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51702039]imagine thinking you'd talk this guy out of his opinion[/QUOTE] Punching him is going to help how? You probably could if you tried. Not online though, most online discussions go to shit, and my theory is because it lacks the face to face communication.

[QUOTE=Shalaska;51702021]"He advocates for a white homeland for a "dispossessed white race" and calls for "peaceful ethnic cleansing" to halt the "deconstruction" of European culture." -Wikipedia I mean, shit, that's enough for me not to cry when he gets punched in the middle of NYC, not enough to make me dumb enough to be the one to do it, but not enough to make me cry over it. I can't see how the fuck peaceful ethnic cleansing is supposed to work, unless it involved outfucking the other guys or 'encouraging' them to move out of your neighbourhood.[/QUOTE] I can see peaceful ethinc cleansing be done through extremely strict authoritarianism like one-child policies in immigrant heavy areas and other political, peaceful solutions like insentives to have more children. Do I like it? Fuck no. Is Spencer arguing for concentration camps and rebuilding the ovens? No.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702041]Pictured: Cowardly SJW resorting to assault because he can't win a verbal argument [img]http://i.imgur.com/cRfLG7a.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] what's the point you're even trying to make now? you haven't actually responded to anyone.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702028]How liberalism became synonymous with nazi apologetics is beyond me. We are so fucked.[/QUOTE] fuck if i care about these labels. what i see here is you calling for violence against another group, who's evil because of their calls to violence

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51702043]Oh I'm not saying that they're not wrong. They're wrong on every single level that they could be right or wrong. I'm just trying to answer the question "Why on earth would this idiot do this?"[/QUOTE] I can't help but feel that this argument has been used to mitigate responsibility. (Not saying you directly are using it to mitigate) I keep seeing it pop up since the Art burning thread.

[QUOTE=Skerion;51701825]Honestly, I would imagine it's because they're not actively seeking it out because they think they're absolutely right and therefore feel like they don't need to. I would imagine the way they feel about anti-discrimination is similar to how most people on here probably feel about the idea of animal rights.[/QUOTE] Not sure if I implied my point clearly here, but basically, the point here is that people who hate this kind of mindset should at least make an attempt to make an argument to racists and nazis and convince them to not hold those views, considering that they're not going to want to bother changing them themselves. Or, if you feel like going the extra mile and are feeling bold, you could try what this one guy did with Derek Black and invite him to a party or some shit. [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html[/url] [quote]Another New College student learned about the conference and posted details on the forum, where gradually a new way of thinking had begun to emerge. “Ostracizing Derek won’t accomplish anything,” one student wrote. “We have a chance to be real activists and actually affect one of the leaders of white supremacy in America. This is not an exaggeration. It would be a victory for civil rights.” “Who’s clever enough to think of something we can do to change this guy’s mind?” One of Derek’s acquaintances from that first semester decided he might have an idea. He started reading Stormfront and listening to Derek’s radio show. Then, in late September, he sent Derek a text message. “What are you doing Friday night?” he wrote.[/quote] [quote]Matthew Stevenson had started hosting weekly Shabbat dinners at his campus apartment shortly after enrolling in New College in 2010. He was the only Orthodox Jew at a school with little Jewish infrastructure, so he began cooking for a small group of students at his apartment each Friday night. Matthew always drank from a kiddush cup and said the traditional prayers, but most of his guests were Christian, atheist, black or Hispanic — anyone open-minded enough to listen to a few blessings in Hebrew. Now, in the fall of 2011, Matthew invited Derek to join them. Matthew had spent a few weeks debating whether it was a good idea. He and Derek had lived near each other in the dorm, but they hadn’t spoken since Derek was exposed on the forum. Matthew, who almost always wore a yarmulke, had experienced enough anti-Semitism in his life to be familiar with the KKK, David Duke and Stormfront. He went back and read some of Derek’s posts on the site from 2007 and 2008: “Jews are NOT white.” “Jews worm their way into power over our society.” “They must go.” Matthew decided his best chance to affect Derek’s thinking was not to ignore him or confront him, but simply to include him. “Maybe he’d never spent time with a Jewish person before,” Matthew remembered thinking. It was the only social invitation Derek had received since returning to campus, so he agreed to go. The Shabbat meals had sometimes included eight or 10 students, but this time only a few showed up. “Let’s try to treat him like anyone else,” Matthew remembered instructing them.[/quote] Granted, Derek wasn't as batshit insane as Spencer, but I still think something like this would be worth the shot even though this was pretty situational.

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51702030]Me saying "Fogooman should be killed" is not violence. Me taking an axe and violently beating you is violence. It's not violence until it's physical. Preaching and encouraging hate is immoral, wrong and rarely, if ever, justified. But it's not violence.[/QUOTE] So then, say, Charles Manson is innocent of almost all of his crimes? I mean, he didn't actually do most of the stuff he's charged with. All he said was that Sharon Tate "should be killed", he didn't actually stab her over a dozen times. [editline]21st January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51702055]fuck if i care about these labels. what i see here is you calling for violence against another group, who's evil because of their calls to violence[/QUOTE] YES. Defending yourself from violent people with violence is something you can and SHOULD do Or would you let current threats like ISIS just trample the world?

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702062] Or would you let current threats like ISIS just trample the world?[/QUOTE] By your logic it would be more like lynching random Muslims.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702062] YES. Defending yourself from violent people with violence is something you can and SHOULD do Or would you let current threats like ISIS just trample the world?[/QUOTE] what acts of violence have richard spencer and/or the American Neo-Nazis committed as of late.

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51702051]I can see peaceful ethinc cleansing be done through extremely strict authoritarianism like one-child policies in immigrant heavy areas and other political, peaceful solutions like insentives to have more children. Do I like it? Fuck no. Is Spencer arguing for concentration camps and rebuilding the ovens? No.[/QUOTE] One-child policies for a certain ethnicity is violence. You have to use violence to enforce it. Incentives to have more children for a certain ethnicity would never be enough to ethnically cleanse an area. There's no way to twist ethnic cleansing that doesn't involve violence.

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701987]Because being a nazi automatically means you want to exterminate all subhumans. Just like being a muslim automatically makes you a suicide bomber, and that being a socialist automatically makes you want to send political dissidents into gulags for the next 40 years.[/QUOTE] this is quite the post... because being a nazi is an ideology founded on that kind of stuff while the other 2 arent

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702041]Pictured: Cowardly SJW resorting to assault because he can't win a verbal argument [img]http://i.imgur.com/cRfLG7a.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Earlier in this thread, someone brought up Sartre. Sartre said that certain groups of people "know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge," and that "it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words." That they "They delight in acting in bad faith." He also said that "If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for arguing is past." Sounds to me like you fit the bill. Not interested in discussing in good faith or answering simple questions, ignoring the core argument, implying that we're past the argument. Sounds like we shouldn't be giving a platform to the likes of Foogooman.

[QUOTE=Thlis;51702071]By your logic it would be more like lynching random Muslims.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Foogooman;51701962]But they would be wrong because Islam is a nuanced religion with many opposing perspectives within it, ranging from peacefulness to radicalism. We can't categorically say Islam is a threat, just that radical Islam is, meaning we need to take peaceful efforts to stave off radicalism and violent efforts to kill those who are already radicalized and seek to hurt innocent people. Nazism is not a nuanced issues, all nazis are irredeemable fucks[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701987]Because being a nazi automatically means you want to exterminate all subhumans. Just like being a muslim automatically makes you a suicide bomber, and that being a socialist automatically makes you want to send political dissidents into gulags for the next 40 years.[/QUOTE] [I]National Socialism n[/I] (Historical Terms) German history the doctrines and practices of the Nazis, involving the supremacy of Hitler as Führer, [B]anti-Semitism[/B], state control of the economy, and national expansion. what did the nazis do again

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51701987]Because being a nazi automatically means you want to exterminate all subhumans. Just like being a muslim automatically makes you a suicide bomber, and that being a socialist automatically makes you want to send political dissidents into gulags for the next 40 years.[/QUOTE] the fact that being a nazi is getting normalized to the extent that people like you consider it "just a political opinion" and comparable to socialism and being a muslim is hella scary tbh

I can't believe not liking nazis is suddenly the unpopular opinion. NINJAD

[QUOTE=bdd458;51702072]what acts of violence have richard spencer and/or the American Neo-Nazis committed as of late.[/QUOTE] Their rhetoric is responsible for hate crimes that happen every single day. While it's difficult to quantify, the popularization of that rhetoric will undoubtedly lead to more and more violence.