Far-right activist Richard Spencer is punched on camera while being interviewed - General

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702062]So then, say, Charles Manson is innocent of almost all of his crimes? I mean, he didn't actually do most of the stuff he's charged with. All he said was that Sharon Tate "should be killed", he didn't actually stab her over a dozen times. [/QUOTE] (I am not very familiar with this particular case) If all he did was say "Sharon tate should be killed" I'd say he is innocent in that. Should everyone who tweeted "Somebody should shoot Trump" be jailed for attempted murder?

[QUOTE=Shalaska;51702087]I can't believe not liking nazis is suddenly the unpopular opinion. NINJAD[/QUOTE] You can not like Nazis, that's ok. You can't assault them though when they're just exercising a right.

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51702092](I am not very familiar with this particular case) If all he did was say "Sharon tate should be killed" I'd say he is innocent in that. Should everyone who tweeted "Somebody should shoot Trump" be jailed for attempted murder?[/QUOTE] jesus christ

[QUOTE=Shalaska;51702087]I can't believe not liking nazis is suddenly the unpopular opinion. NINJAD[/QUOTE] I can't believe that there are people that don't understand that not violently assaulting someone, doesn't mean that you like them.

[QUOTE=Shalaska;51702087]I can't believe not liking nazis is suddenly the unpopular opinion. NINJAD[/QUOTE] It's not so much liking nazis, but rather a distaste of violence

Sure he shouldn't have been punched but damn was that satisfying

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702088]Their rhetoric is responsible for hate crimes that happen every single day. While it's difficult to quantify, the popularization of that rhetoric will undoubtedly lead to more and more violence.[/QUOTE] so absolutely nothing then and you have no basis for your argument. ISIS in your example has been on a warpath, committing atrocities and acts of violence. Nazi Germany in WWII was on a warpath committing atrocities and acts of violence. Richard Spencer has said things, that may or may not influenced others to do things, but you can't actually prove it. So we're stuck at square one where the individuals who [I]have[/I] committed hate crimes did so of their own volition and the law has taken care of said individuals.

[QUOTE=bdd458;51702048]Punching him is going to help how? You probably could if you tried. Not online though, most online discussions go to shit, and my theory is because it lacks the face to face communication.[/QUOTE] People further miss the point of engaging those that have strong entrenched views, it's not about winning mystical internet points by "winning" the argument and convincing them. It's about convincing the audience that are listening, or even just making them think on it.

Yeah, didn't you see Richard Spencer hitting and hurting all those people around him. Man he was on a Rampage, Good thing that guy stepped in and punched him in his Nazi face.

I really have to go back to a previous post. What exactly is your end goal with this? Is it just to beat people into submission?

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51702092](I am not very familiar with this particular case) If all he did was say "Sharon tate should be killed" I'd say he is innocent in that. Should everyone who tweeted "Somebody should shoot Trump" be jailed for attempted murder?[/QUOTE] mate you are really not helping the people who are arguing against violence in this thread with this crazy shit

I would've loved to see the coward get tackled and arrested by cops, too bad there weren't any around.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702097]jesus christ[/QUOTE] It'd take you about one quarter of a second to see my flag and see "Wow, he's not an american, maybe that's why doesn't know the Charles Manson-case in detail" But back to my question, Should everyone who tweeted "Somebody should shoot Trump" be jailed? Because to me it's the same as saying "Sharon Tate should be killed"

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51702125]It'd take you about one quarter of a second to see my flag and see "Wow, he's not an american, maybe that's why doesn't know the Charles Manson-case in detail" But back to my question, Should everyone who tweeted "Somebody should shoot Trump" be jailed? Because to me it's the same as saying "Sharon Tate should be killed"[/QUOTE] if you don't know about the case stop using it as a comparison you doofus

[QUOTE=Limed00d;51702085][I]National Socialism n[/I] (Historical Terms) German history the doctrines and practices of the Nazis, involving the supremacy of Hitler as Führer, [B]anti-Semitism[/B], state control of the economy, and national expansion. what did the nazis do again[/QUOTE] actually I see you're norwegian too so you should [I]fucking know what the definition of nazism is[/I]

[QUOTE=Campin Carl;51702125]It'd take you about one quarter of a second to see my flag and see "Wow, he's not an american, maybe that's why doesn't know the Charles Manson-case in detail" But back to my question, Should everyone who tweeted "Somebody should shoot Trump" be jailed? Because to me it's the same as saying "Sharon Tate should be killed"[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter where you're from, I just explained to you the crimes of one of the most infamous murderers and you said he's innocent fuck off [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming, suck at arguing" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;51702013]The first step to radicalization is to dehumanize others. The reaction to the "far-right" and supposed "nazis" only further entrenches them in their opinions and will allow them to justify their future actions for injustices today.[/QUOTE] It makes them the victim, too. A lot of "extremely minded" people victimize themselves in an attempt to normalize what they do. [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1547251"]Remember this thread?[/URL] This creep went on about how it was [B][U]unfair[/U][/B] that he was getting kicked out, that he [U][B]only[/B][/U] wanted to ask the woman out. They dehumanize themselves to the normies for acting abnormal, and humanize himself to the abnormies. Normal people attack the man for being retarded, while other people who share even a little bit of the same opinion sympathize with the man. That sympathy is amplified when they see people attacking him. Remember the narrative "Trump won because of those mean mean liberals insulting the alt-right?" Remember how during the election, the alt-right would just post video after video of trump supporters getting mistreated by extremist lefties? Remember how during the election, the alt-right would just post video after video of extremist lefties saying that white people are subhuman? The Alt-Right are masters of this game. [editline]4[/editline] The irony is that most of you are providing masturbation material by saying that the guy deserved it.

Please guys just hear me out; the advocating of violence here hurts me and I want to explain why. I never expected I would have to defend a nazi, but what surprised me more is who I would be defending the nazi from. A new age of tolerance and understanding my ass. I want to make something very clear because apparently some people have this confused. Tolerance towards someones beliefs and tolerance towards someones actions. What some of you propose is intolerance towards someones beliefs, which I find disgusting. Yes, he is a nazi. And yes, his beliefs are revolting, backwards and worthy of more than scrutiny. But to not be tolerant towards those beliefs is hypocritical of us and unproductive in the grand scheme of things. Believe me, if he acted on those beliefs and actually started killing people or subjugating a race I would be up there with you, shoving a pitchfork up his ass, but the fact is that he is not. He is a holder of beliefs and only beliefs. It is reasonable to be intolerant of someones actions, because those directly and irreversibly effect people, I am talking about violence, and in that case it would only be right to harm him in defense of others. But what I see here is intolerance of beliefs and thoughts, and again, that is unacceptable in the same way that his views are. So I am not harming you, I am talking to you in an attempt to convince you. Take a note. When someone has beliefs such as his, you have two options: 1. Curb-stomp him, kill him, send him to a camp, beat him, whatever you want because obviously he is subhuman and unworthy of compassion. -or- 2. Listen to him, hear why he believes what he believes, explain what you think, continue the conversation and work like hell to come to an understanding. When you opt for violence towards someone who thinks differently than you, congratulations, you are the textbook definition of bigoted. You have not convinced him, you have not changed his mind, you have not given him a chance. I think this is a saddening failure and I expect we can do better. Believe it or not, nazis are humans too. Shitty humans, but still humans. They have families and a childhood and dreams and aspirations. When the nazis lost, did we put them in death camps because "lol, an eye for an eye" or execute them in swathes indiscriminately? No, we took the high road BECAUSE WE ARE BETTER THAN THEM. We gave them a fair trial and some were executed, some were put in prison. If someone can be convinced to become a nazi, then someone can be convinced to relinquish those beliefs. And if we have the chance to try to help them understand why what they are doing is wrong then we have an obligation to. Until they begin killing, until they begin harming, we are no better than them by disregarding their basic humanity and treating them like trash. I though we were better than this.

[QUOTE=dai;51701625]feels like I've seen a few "poor alt-right dude attacked by blacks/evil feminazis, this is why we're scared to speak out" newsposts in [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1548661]recent[/url] memory* where it feels like the situation was blatantly baited like that, because the news of getting blocked/blasted by protest is headline material that can spark outrage without having to read any context *could just be due to tudd's saturation of polarized threads about feminists and protesters/BLM acting out but hey[/QUOTE] I mean, we've gotten quite a few videos of just that and only a bunch of hoaxes of the opposite. It's really not a good idea to get violent against your ideological opponents. It may not make them *right*, but it gives them a lot of ammo against you and expands their support base. [QUOTE=Turnips5;51701671]of course he hasn't fucking advocated putting people in ovens, he has to be subtle about these things or people would get the wrong idea! he did tweet "praise be to kek" on his twitter though which is actually worse lol[/QUOTE] An internet meme worse than saying "put jews in ovens" Okay guy.

[QUOTE=Xubs;51702122]I just don't see how you or anyone else expects anyone like Richard Spencer to listen to what anyone else has to say regardless of how far anyone goes in tackling them. Most of these people are so entrenched in their views and are completely and totally open to using any dirty information tactics to falsely implicate things in their favor (see: fake news) that at some point, and it is increasingly feeling like we may have already passed that point, words and debate can't stop these ideas from spreading anymore. The people have spoken, rational reasoning and debate are dead. Feelings are the only things that matter anymore. Sure, don't punch Richard Spencer. But what can be done anymore, not even about him but about this rampant malignant curse of ignorance? I don't see anything else being of much use, it's a self-sustaining and self-replicating meme at this point.[/QUOTE] Aside from going out and actually attacking the nazis yourself (which the people in the thread calling for violence against them are clearly way too cowardly to do themselves,) the alternative is to ignore them, to starve them of oxygen. They thrive on attention. Posting their dumb blogs and laughing at them gives them attention. Attacking them on camera and the video going viral and causing multiple-page long discussions on the ethics of punching nazis gives them attention. The less exposure they get, the less they will grow, and the more likely they will be to die out. I'm guilty of giving them this attention right now. In other words, don't give them a platform. People might disagree and think that force is the only option, but nobody here is capable of or willing to use that force so it's useless to discuss.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51702062]YES. Defending yourself from violent people with violence is something you can and SHOULD do Or would you let current threats like ISIS just trample the world?[/QUOTE] Oh for fuck's sake. [B]Self-defense is not, and SHOULD NEVER be a preemptive measure.[/B] "I think these guys are going to hurt me, better fuck them up before they have a chance to do the same" is not acceptable in any court of law, and is [I]pretty much the exact mentality that started the whole god damn Nazi thing[/I]. (and yeah sure, keep trying to equate some shit-talking douchebags to a massive, actively murderous, para-military organization like ISIS. That's totally not a disingenuous comparison at all) Fucking hell. I think [I]your[/I] mentality is utterly moronic, and a threat to the most basic ideals of western society, but I'm FAR from advocating anyone to beat your ass over it. And you know why? [I]Because we do not live under a fascist regime.[/I]

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;51702121]I would've loved to see the coward get tackled and arrested by cops, too bad there weren't any around.[/QUOTE] I'm curious. To the people that are disagreeing with this, are you disagreeing because A) You don't want to see more violence? (Understandable) B) You don't want the guy that committed assault to be arrested for assault?

From what I have heard about Richard Spencer, I don't really like him. But punching him? Absolutely pathetic. I saw the video of the incident, that protestor was an absolute coward with how they obscured their face and immediately ran away after punching him. And here's food for thought: Did the protestor really think that what was going through Spencer's head was: 'Gee I have just been punched, maybe I should change my ways'? Absolutely not. Actions like that only serve to entrench the beliefs of people like Spencer. The far-right will see that video and view it as an attack against all of them.

[QUOTE=Xubs;51702122]I just don't see how you or anyone else expects anyone like Richard Spencer to listen to what anyone else has to say regardless of how far anyone goes in tackling them.[/QUOTE] Because its happened in the past (and recently too, the son of the founder of Stormfront was convinced to leave that mindset via tactics similar to what Daryl Davis did), and human nature doesn't really change so it'll happen in the future. If you think the KKK or the Neo-Nazis of the 80s and 90s were less echo-chambery situations than they are now you're wrong. That's how they came to their views. And when they were exposed to people who didn't share those views, and had actual conversations with them they decided to change their ways. "Fake News" has always been around, it's always sold - Yellow Journalism and Tabloids and their ilk aren't new. So you can't blame it on that either.

[QUOTE=Zombinie;51702134]What some of you propose is intolerance towards someones beliefs, which I find disgusting. Yes, he is a nazi. And yes, his beliefs are revolting, backwards and worthy of more than scrutiny. But to not be tolerant towards those beliefs is hypocritical of us and unproductive in the grand scheme of things. Believe me, if he acted on those beliefs and actually started killing people or subjugating a race I would be up there with you, shoving a pitchfork up his ass, but the fact is that he is not. He is a holder of beliefs and only beliefs. It is reasonable to be intolerant of someones actions, because those directly and irreversibly effect people, I am talking about violence, and in that case it would only be right to harm him in defense of others.[/QUOTE] Except propagating and normalizing his rhetoric encourages the actually violent ones to do things

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51702133] The irony is that most of you are providing masturbation material by saying that the guy deserved it.[/QUOTE] Even more scary that a lot of people here aren't even level headed enough to see it's the same tactic used by crazy self-victimizing radical SJW's on tumblr. The cycle never ends on either side of the spectrum.

The way I look at it, when violence is dealt to groups such as Neo-Nazis for their ideologies, you can say what you want but you should consider how others will respond. Now the one who dealt the violence is not in the right, and violence will ultimately just lead to violence, but when one sets a fire they should expect someone to attempt to put it out. When your ideology's end game is violence against others for factors they can't control nor truly harm anyone, then expect a variety of responses to oppose the ideologies. Whether it's to introduce a better peaceful way or stagnant violence, many will come to impose what they believe is unjust, whether they're right or wrong about how they go about it.

[QUOTE=Eric95;51702171]Except propagating and normalizing his rhetoric encourages the actually violent ones to do things[/QUOTE] Debating and deconstructing Spencers ideas and thoughts isn't propagating and normalizing it. It's how you can defeat him and his ilk without starting WWIII. Nazism despite how bad it might be, is not like the Dark Side in Star Wars where studying it makes you evil. It's how we find out how bad ideas are bad. Atheists don't become religious by studying the bible. And atheists rarely create more religious people.

[QUOTE=bdd458;51702048]Punching him is going to help how? You probably could if you tried. Not online though, most online discussions go to shit, and my theory is because it lacks the face to face communication.[/QUOTE] It doesn't, it's just funny. Good luck changing the mind of a white supremacist. Blue moons happen though I guess.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51702197]It doesn't, it's just funny. Good luck changing the mind of a white supremacist. Blue moons happen though I guess.[/QUOTE] yeah dude the KKK in Maryland was a blue moon. So was Derek Black when people decided to stop ostracizing him and instead decided to start conversing with him. Definitely a blue moon :) like instead of treating these people as ya know, people, who have an extremely flawed viewpoint you're treating them as if they're something that needs to be wiped out and "the other".