[quote]Even if Martin just straight up punched him in the face with no dialogue, there isn't much wrong with that[/quote]
lol
Wow I can't believe I'm still being argued with by complete buffoons, I'm apparently racist now even though I'm light-brown skinned myself but I guess everybody is either a racist or dumb for applying logic and evidence to their thinking.
McGii you are incredibly rude I don't think I've seen someone quite as narrow minded to accuse everybody who debates their points as nothing more then a racist, for someone accusing people of using straw-man arguments I'm surprised you haven't caught up on your own use of ad hominem fallacies.
Once again let me itterate this rather then throwing around racist claims and videos of the Young Turks who are debating "Zimmerman Supporters" [B]I am not a Zimmerman supporter[/B] do you comprehend that now that it's bolded, I'm merely diffusing sensationalist claims such as this being a race related crime [B]WHICH IT WAS NOT[/B] if you can provide sufficient evidence to that position please do, current evidence (including an article where he defended a black individual who was a victim and him being hispanic) suggests instead to Zimmerman being paranoid and hastily firing his gun at a teenager, like I said this doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is innocent, because he isn't by a long shot but he's certaintly not the racist cold-blooded murder you idiots keep accusing him of being.
[B]I have said repeated times that I don't possess enough evidence to make any claims[/B], neither do you McGii or any more individuals who keep debating this topic in a biased manner. Nothing we say or do will provide and more light or conclusive evidence to the case, the only thing we can do is wait for the courts impartial decision for what they consider justice, which arguably will be hard given the lack of information but it's the best we can hope for, it's fair and it isn't sensationalist. That's the way things work why half of you even see the neccesity in throwing around such assumptions without proof makes me amazed, I'm damn glad none of you are running any sort of legal system because all you are after is some sort of witch hunt.
[QUOTE=Vasili;36463140]i recall fp lynching people for even siding with zimmerman
[editline]24th June 2012[/editline]
if the media wants to portray someone as innocent then they'll say kid, if they want people to think negatively they'll say teenager, but I think you knew that already. To me a kid is someone 1-12, then they hit teens.[/QUOTE]
a teenager is a kid. a 21 year old is a kid. a 12 year old is a child. there's a reason why children under 10 are called "little kids"
because a kid is anyone from 13-25~ish.
[editline]24th June 2012[/editline]
but yes the media does use the negative stigma attached to "teenager" to demonize some individuals
a 25 year old is a kid haha wtf
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;36470772]a 25 year old is a kid haha wtf[/QUOTE]
would you call someone fresh out of college an adult? i wouldn't. most of us don't know what we're doing with our lives, rely on our parents and familes hugely, and are not mature. we're not immature, we're marginal between the two. kids just have this tendency to think they're adults when they turn 18 and are no longer considered minors, which is hilarious
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;36470772]a 25 year old is a kid haha wtf[/QUOTE]
You sound like someone who thinks 30 is old.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k07wZIU1siM[/media]
Are you sure everything adds up OP?
Yep
[editline]24th June 2012[/editline]
A 14 minute video calling Zimmerman a liar. Okay.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;36470815]would you call someone fresh out of college an adult? i wouldn't. most of us don't know what we're doing with our lives, rely on our parents and familes hugely, and are not mature. we're not immature, we're marginal between the two. kids just have this tendency to think they're adults when they turn 18 and are no longer considered minors, which is hilarious[/QUOTE]
if you can drink and drive a car and join the army and do anything else legally youre an adult. sorry. not everyone is a middle-class chump who did a shit college degree and can't find a job and lives off his parents. some people start living their lives as adults at 18 and get proper jobs and act completely independently
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36469335]You're awful at arguing with people[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/funny2.png[/img] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/box.png[/img]
[QUOTE=areyoublack;36471261]Yep
[editline]24th June 2012[/editline]
A 14 minute video calling Zimmerman a liar. Okay.[/QUOTE]
So everything pointed out in the video can be dismissed with a "Yep". Okay.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;36471319]if you can drink and drive a car and join the army and do anything else legally youre an adult. sorry. not everyone is a middle-class chump who did a shit college degree and can't find a job and lives off his parents. some people start living their lives as adults at 18 and get proper jobs and act completely independently[/QUOTE]
i'm still in school lmao and the majority of people i know end up in jobs completely unrelated to their fields (cse, engineering, biomed) unless they go on to grad school, at which point they're still quite connected to their parents. you know that around 50% of college grads end up moving right back in with their parents, right? those that don't are still on most of their parents health insurance, and receive support. obviously someone who moves out and is completely independent at the age of 18 is not a "kid" but those are a minority. huffpo cited a study a few weeks back that said it's like 10~ percent at most.
i moved out of home when i was 17 to head to college and i've been paying for it by myself since that time. i've got plans for grad school, internships, and i'm doing research. despite all of that - being almost completely independent minus insurance - i would still call myself a kid because that's what i am. anyone who is in a college setting (bout 2/3rds of the high school grad population) knows that even there you're in a hugely sheltered environment.
even circumventing this whole pissing contest the point is that yeah, trayvon was a kid lmao. he was 17, he was living with his parents. that makes him a kid.
[QUOTE=Florence;36471937]So everything pointed out in the video can be dismissed with a "Yep". Okay.[/QUOTE]
Yeah
[QUOTE=Florence;36471034][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k07wZIU1siM[/media]
Are you sure everything adds up OP?[/QUOTE]
Once again this video is stupid, it's just debates him because he's not saying specifically or exactly what the phone calls have said/a few time inconsistencies. That isn't an instant contradiction nor is it fallacious, in fact most of what he says supports the phone call it's just not dead on or exactly the exchange that occurred.
I fail to understand what the purpose of this is. If he's lieing surely he would copy the phone call accurately or explain the events more accurately because this would increase the chances of the police believing the validity of his story, if he's not lieing then he's just being inconsistent in which case what's the point of this.
Please elaborate on his contradictions being anything more than related to memory, otherwise why wouldn't he follow the story already known to the public to increase the chances of being believed?
[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;36470358]Wow I can't believe I'm still being argued with by complete buffoons, I'm apparently racist now even though I'm light-brown skinned myself but I guess everybody is either a racist or dumb for applying logic and evidence to their thinking.
McGii you are incredibly rude I don't think I've seen someone quite as narrow minded to accuse everybody who debates their points as nothing more then a racist, for someone accusing people of using straw-man arguments I'm surprised you haven't caught up on your own use of ad hominem fallacies.
Once again let me itterate this rather then throwing around racist claims and videos of the Young Turks who are debating "Zimmerman Supporters" [B]I am not a Zimmerman supporter[/B] do you comprehend that now that it's bolded, I'm merely diffusing sensationalist claims such as this being a race related crime [B]WHICH IT WAS NOT[/B] if you can provide sufficient evidence to that position please do, current evidence (including an article where he defended a black individual who was a victim and him being hispanic) suggests instead to Zimmerman being paranoid and hastily firing his gun at a teenager, like I said this doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is innocent, because he isn't by a long shot but he's certaintly not the racist cold-blooded murder you idiots keep accusing him of being.
[B]I have said repeated times that I don't possess enough evidence to make any claims[/B], neither do you McGii or any more individuals who keep debating this topic in a biased manner. Nothing we say or do will provide and more light or conclusive evidence to the case, the only thing we can do is wait for the courts impartial decision for what they consider justice, which arguably will be hard given the lack of information but it's the best we can hope for, it's fair and it isn't sensationalist. That's the way things work why half of you even see the neccesity in throwing around such assumptions without proof makes me amazed, I'm damn glad none of you are running any sort of legal system because all you are after is some sort of witch hunt.[/QUOTE]
See: Post I half took from SA. Logically Zimmerman's story doesn't add up if you've seen or at least been in a single fight since before you hit puberty, unless he is wolverine and heals instantly.
[QUOTE=McGii;36474736]See: Post I half took from SA. Logically Zimmerman's story doesn't add up if you've seen or at least been in a single fight since before you hit puberty, unless he is wolverine and heals instantly.[/QUOTE]
You took that wolverine quote directly from Young Turks, are you going to speak for yourself or just regurgitate other peoples thoughts on the matter?
I've watched the video, and it's silly hearsay, I'm not implying the extent of Zimmerman's injuries because I don't have evidence for that, and that surveillance isn't good evidence, maybe he wasn't injured all, maybe he was injured slightly, what I do know however is that saying in that video "i've had my nose broken it bled loads" doesn't work as evidence for him not being injured, its actually ridiculous they just use loads of personal analogies as references to the extent of his harm. That doesn't accumulate to anything or doesn't provide anymore information then we had before.
As I said I believe Zimmerman overreacted and shot this teenager where he could have merely restrained him, Travyon's blood is directly on his hands as a result. But I'm not going to sit here and needlessly/pointlessly trivialize over the extent of his injuries because regardless of how injured he was, he was still injured, definitely not something to kill someone over but arguably something that would demand a reaction, either way I am not defending Zimmerman or Travyon both had their roles to play in what lead to a tragic incident.
[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;36474955]You took that wolverine quote directly from Young Turks, are you going to speak for yourself or just regurgitate other peoples thoughts on the matter?
I've watched the video, and it's silly hearsay, I'm not implying the extent of Zimmerman's injuries because I don't have evidence for that, and that surveillance isn't good evidence, maybe he wasn't injured all, maybe he was injured slightly, what I do know however is that saying in that video "i've had my nose broken it bled loads" doesn't work as evidence for him not being injured, its actually ridiculous they just use loads of personal analogies as references to the extent of his harm. That doesn't accumulate to anything or doesn't provide anymore information then we had before.
As I said I believe Zimmerman overreacted and shot this teenager where he could have merely restrained him, Travyon's blood is directly on his hands as a result. But I'm not going to sit here and needlessly/pointlessly trivialize over the extent of his injuries because regardless of how injured he was, he was still injured, definitely not something to kill someone over but arguably something that would demand a reaction, either way I am not defending Zimmerman or Travyon both had their roles to play in what lead to a tragic incident.[/QUOTE]
How about you read the whole post. I actually ignored the commentary on that video, it wasn't the important part. The important part is that he has no blood on him at all and isn't even concussed, and broken noses bleed like a fucking bitch. You quite literally have never been in a fight, seen a fight, or watched a contact sport on TV have you.
Read the post, there is no way Zimmerman got those injuries from Trayvon.
The only role Tray on had was being black near a guy who assumed he was high and up to no good because there were robberies in the area and another black person was suspect.
[QUOTE=McGii;36475085]How about you read the whole post. I actually ignored the commentary on that video, it wasn't the important part. The important part is that he has no blood on him at all and isn't even concussed, and broken noses bleed like a fucking bitch. You quite literally have never been in a fight, seen a fight, or watched a contact sport on TV have you.
Read the post, there is no way Zimmerman got those injuries from Trayvon.
The only role Tray on had was being black near a guy who assumed he was high and up to no good because there were robberies in the area and another black person was suspect.[/QUOTE]
So he walked up and shot the kid because of how incredibly racist he is, then started hitting himself in the face to make it seem like he was attacked? What makes you so sure the kid was a good fighter? Perhaps he had really weak arms.
Once again you keep referring to this being a race related crime, but you have not provided evidence for that. You're siding with the sensationalist side of the story. As I've already explained there was a 2010 racial motivated crime within his own neighborhood, by which two police officer beat a homeless black man Sherman Ware ([B]because they were racist[/B]), George condones their actions and stands up for Sherman Ware, where most people accuse Ware of instigating the act. Isn't this fucking ironic. Now lets actually look at some evidence shall we HMMMM.
[B]
A member of the Zimmerman family wrote that George was one of [I][U]“very few” in Sanford who publicly condemned the “beating of the black homeless man[/U][/I] Sherman Ware on Dec. 4, 2010, by the son of a Sanford police officer,” who is white.[/B]
[B]In May, the Miami Herald secured an audiotape of the January 8, 2011, Sanford City Hall community forum. On the audiotape, Zimmerman was heard criticizing the conduct of the Sanford Police Department in the Ware case. Zimmerman criticized former chief, Brian Tooley, and said Tooley had engaged in a "cover-up" and that he should lose his pension. He also said he'd been on ride-alongs with Sanford police where he found them to be lazy. The Herald also reported that it had contacted [I][U]five out of six black churches where Zimmerman was reported to have distributed fliers on the Ware beating[/U][/I][/B]
[B]Zimmerman was accused of being motivated by racism and of having Martin. During early media coverage of the incident, Zimmerman's call to the police dispatcher was edited by NBC, [I][U]shortened such that it appeared that Zimmerman had volunteered Martin's race[/U][/I]. The unedited audio recording proved that the police dispatcher specifically asked about Martin's race, and only then did Zimmerman reveal that Martin was black. NBC apologized for the misleading edit and disciplined those involved.[/B]
^
In otherwords the media lieing through there teeth in order to make this seem race-motivated,for the sake of profits. It clearly worked because people like your are still talking about it, when there is so much overwhelming evidence that Zimmeran wasn't racist.
[B]In an open letter on March 15, 2012, Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman, defended his son against allegations that his actions were racially motivated, stating that [U][I]Zimmerman was Hispanic, was raised in a multiracial family[/I][/U], and "would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever,"[/B]
Now please provide evidence suggesting this was race motivated, you also keep saying this guy is white which he god damn isn't, he's very clearly hispanic any picture of him shows that, it doesn't matter with his dad is white as you say in your earlier post, the guy is bloody well brown now deal with it. Just look at his white ass:
[IMG]http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/0420-george-zimmerman-social-justice.jpg/12338791-1-eng-US/0420-george-zimmerman-social-justice.jpg_full_600.jpg[/IMG]
Again let me reinforce the fact that I'm not promoting Zimmerman as the good guy, he shot this teenager because he was paranoid and overreacted, it seems now that he always assumed trouble was lurking around every corner and thought he had to be some sort of vigilante. As you rightly remarked (seems to be the only decent statement you've made) he took his self-appointed job as a Neighborhood Watchmen too seriously.
Though you then later state he was looking out for Travyon specifically "who murdered a black teenager because he assumed it must be him who robbed the areas.", your pulling more shit out of your ass, where do you get this stuff, it's like something I'd read in the Daily Mail (a sensationalist bullshit newspaper in the UK). Zimmerman states that the houses had been robbed previously, which they had and that was well documented, he specifically notes that he was wary of Travyon because he was loitering around the houses not because he was black. Thus clearly a result of the guys abrupt and problematic paranoia not some innate racism.
Please for the love of god reply with some shred of evidence for these race-related assumptions this time.
[QUOTE=McGii;36475085]there is no way Zimmerman got those injuries from Trayvon.[/QUOTE]
I know right, he had to of gotten them from God.
[QUOTE=McGii;36475085]The only role Tray on had was being black near a guy who assumed he was high and up to no good because there were robberies in the area and another black person was suspect.[/QUOTE]
Hmm. Robberies in a nice neighborhood, black suspect....black guy in a hoodie in the middle of night......I'm going to suspect something.
I bet you go around and knock stuff outta people's hands and say, "That's for Trayvon!"
Also some more evidence:
The first round of discovery documents included police reports that state Zimmerman "appeared to have a broken and a bloody nose and swelling of his face". According to police reports, [B]Zimmerman was offered three chances to be taken to the hospital, but Zimmerman declined each time[/B]. ABC News reported that a medical report compiled by the family physician of George Zimmerman showed that, following the altercation with Martin, Zimmerman was [B][U]diagnosed[/U] with a closed fracture of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek
[/B]
A[B] police surveillance video shows Mr. Zimmerman being led out of a police cruiser[/B] with his hands cuffed behind his back. In the grainy video, he does not appear to be badly injured and signs of blood are not visible on his clothing.[B] Trayvon's family sees this as a crucial refutation of Mr. Zimmerman's account. [/B]But Robert Zimmerman said that by that time, [B]his son had been cleaned up at the scene[/B]
A witness who arrived shortly after the shooting [B]revealed photos[/B] he took that night that showed [B]"blood trickling down the back of Zimmerman's head from two cuts[/B]. It also shows a possible c[B]ontusion forming on the crown of his head[/B]". He noted he heard but didn't see the scuffle, but was one of the first to arrive, and was the first to talk to Zimmerman after the shooting.
After the prosecutors made some discovery information available, the Orlando Sentinel quoted an eye witness statement which said a man had "witnessed a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie'[B] on top of a white or Hispanic male who was [U]yelling for help[/U][/B]." The witness said the black male was throwing punches "MMA [mixed martial arts] style." After[B] hearing a "pop," he saw the black male "laid out on the grass."[/B] When the witness was interviewed several weeks later, after giving his first statement, he thought the black male was either punching or pinning the lighter skinned male underneath him. He was no longer certain who was calling for help, having not seen their mouths in the dark. He was still[B] certain that the black male had been on top of the lighter-skinned male[/B]
On June 21, 2012, Zimmerman's attorneys released audiotapes of several interviews he had with police shortly after the shooting. Also included were Zimmerman's written statement of February 26, 2012, and video recordings of his [B]reenactment of the incident[/B] and a [B]voice stress test that he passed[/B]
Investigators pointed to some [B]apparent inconsistencies[/B] in what Zimmerman told them, such as that he said he didn't know the name of a street in his development. Zimmerman said in response that he had a[B] bad memory[/B] and takes[B] medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder[/B].Investigators also questioned the extent of his injuries and why he didn't identify himself to Martin as from the neighborhood watch. Zimmerman said he didn't want to confront Martin
The discovery documents include [B]FBI reports stating that analysts were unable to determine whose voice is heard crying out for help in 911 calls[/B], citing[B] poor audio quality[/B] and the “[B]extreme emotional state”[/B] of the person screaming.
According to police reports included in the discovery documents, after listening to audio recordings of the 911 calls, [B]Martin's father, Tracy Martin, told police investigators that it was not Trayvon Martin's voice [/B]calling for help. Martin has since told reporters he was [B]uncertain at that time[/B], but that when he heard an enhanced recording on March 16 he was convinced it was his son calling for help. In an interview with prosecutors on March 19, [B]Zimmerman's father identified the screams as George Zimmerman's[/B], stating, "There is no doubt who is yelling for help. It is absolutely my son."
A witness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that [B]Martin was on top of Zimmerman and [U]punching him[/U], while Zimmerman was [U]yelling for help[/U][/B]. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the [B]guy on the bottom[/B], who had a [B]red sweater on, [/B]was yelling to me, [B]'Help! Help![/B]' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911". He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
[U][B]
NOW PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP.[/B][/U]
I'm glad you took the time to gather all that information up as I was about to do my best to do the same in response to most of his ridiculous "argument". Unfortunately, I doubt I'd be able to get as much detail as you have so thank you!
None of this really concerns us at all. Unless one of us happens to be directly involved with the case or court proceedings then no matter what conclusion we might come to it would have no bearing or effect on the final verdict. In my opinion, it really shows how the media can almost control what people can think about something. The way they inflated racism in this case is not something new. It's the latest in a trend that's been going on for a while now.
[video=youtube;ZfUPn_mHd3k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfUPn_mHd3k[/video]
All of this is merely unnecessary drama that only serves to distract us from problems that actually matter and affect us.
