Computer technology should become a required part of school curriculum - General

[QUOTE=Nightsure;29632933]The fact my school uses windows 98 w/ an XP skin and IE6 [I]really[/I] doesn't help in my ICT classes.[/QUOTE] an XP skin makes it XP. Didn't they tell you?

basic computer classes should expand to slightly more than teaching you how to use Office again and again, even though that's what most people will do on computers in the workplace having a basic knowledge of computers and some basic intuition so you don't have to call a guy in every time you accidentally change your window colour to pink is pretty important

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29632941]an XP skin makes it XP. Didn't they tell you?[/QUOTE] Well it messes up sometimes and it boots up without the skin. You're on 98 for the hour friend.

[QUOTE=Matix;29632882]Once again, your schools are one of the many that require these courses, and that's good. It certainly does not represent the majority, however. I don't see why you're arguing with me when we obviously agree on the importance of this.[/QUOTE] Not really since I have never used CAD again and forgot how to use it and didn't care then. I don't care if people know how to work a computer or not. It's not important to me, but it's almost incidental in just living on planet Earth. I don't think we need classes for it. By all means, keep making kids write papers in Office, but to dedicate a whole class to inane shit you pick up in the course of your usual schooling? A waste, I say.

[QUOTE=Nightsure;29632933]The fact my school uses windows 98 w/ an XP skin[/QUOTE] what is the fucking point of that I know schools have a limited budget to spend on ICT but there comes a point when you spend more time logging in than working, that's when you learn something needs updating. [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Generic.Monk;29632960] having a basic knowledge of computers and some basic intuition so you don't have to call a guy in every time you accidentally change your window colour to pink is pretty important[/QUOTE] though you DO NOT NEED A CLASS to teach you this, and using office and shit is FAR MORE USEFUL in the workplace

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29633018]Not really since I have never used CAD again and forgot how to use it and didn't care then. I don't care if people know how to work a computer or not. It's not important to me, but it's almost incidental in just living on planet Earth. I don't think we need classes for it. By all means, keep making kids write papers in Office, but to dedicate a whole class to inane shit you pick up in the course of your usual schooling? A waste, I say.[/QUOTE] Thank you for at long last submitting a well-worded and respectable opinion, instead of your previous pseudo-superior remarks. I still think you fail to see the big picture about such a curriculum, and if I had the time, I would make a comprehensive course description for you, but I don't.

[QUOTE=Matix;29633062]Thank you for at long last submitting a well-worded and respectable opinion, instead of your previous pseudo-superior remarks. I still think you fail to see the big picture about such a curriculum, and if I had the time, I would make a comprehensive course description for you, but I don't.[/QUOTE] christ could you be any more condescending, what's with all these threads spouting your dubious advice anyway

[QUOTE=Matix;29633062]Thank you for at long last submitting a well-worded and respectable opinion, instead of your previous pseudo-superior remarks. I still think you fail to see the big picture about such a curriculum, and if I had the time, I would make a comprehensive course description for you, but I don't.[/QUOTE] I wasn't trying to seem superior. Sorry if you felt that way. [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Generic.Monk;29633110]christ could you be any more condescending[/QUOTE] Yes he could.

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;29633110]christ could you be any more condescending, what's with all these threads spouting your dubious advice anyway[/QUOTE] How am I being condescending? What advice did I give in this thread? [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29633112]I wasn't trying to seem superior. Sorry if you felt that way.[/QUOTE] Maybe superior isn't the word. It's more that you were making it seem like your particular level of intelligence and personality as an active intellectual was true of all (or most) teenagers, with which I must heartily disagree. Most teenagers will not learn unless the materials are placed in front of them and they are given a corresponding assignment. I've witnessed it every day of my educational life since elementary school. That is the root of our argument; not the principle. I agree with just about everything you said, just not the basis for your statements.

It would not be needed, at least in my country. The modern youth are well capable of educating themselves on computers. It would be an unnecessary use of school money. I don't think computers can really aid education, at least in their current form. The computers in my school are expensive but never used, and everyone has a computer at home anyway. If someone is REALLY interested in learning about computers they will pursue it in their own time.

[QUOTE=Mr Slashy;29634298]I don't think computers can really aid education, at least in their current form.[/QUOTE] I really, [I]really[/I] disagree with that. [QUOTE=Mr Slashy;29634298]If someone is REALLY interested in learning about computers they will pursue it in their own time.[/QUOTE] That's the problem. If only the people who were interested in learning English learned English, the world would be filled to the brim with illiterates. I'm talking 80-90% of the global population being completely illiterate. Same goes for any other subject. If it isn't required, a huge percentage of people won't bother.

[QUOTE=Matix;29634377]I really, [I]really[/I] disagree with that.[/QUOTE] I can see how what I said can be taken the wrong way. What I essentially mean is that most kids will just use wikipedia for all homework that requires any amount of research. You don't need the internet to use an encyclopedia. It just encourages laziness IMO. (I'm not saying wikipedia is the only educational resource on the internet, but it might aswell be for most people). Secondly, I mean people who want to learn about computers IN DEPTH will pursue it in their own time. In any house with a computer a child will probably learn the basics long before they start learning it in school.

[QUOTE=Matix;29633347]How am I being condescending? What advice did I give in this thread? [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] Maybe superior isn't the word. It's more that you were making it seem like your particular level of intelligence and personality as an active intellectual was true of all (or most) teenagers, with which I must heartily disagree. Most teenagers will not learn unless the materials are placed in front of them and they are given a corresponding assignment. I've witnessed it every day of my educational life since elementary school. That is the root of our argument; not the principle. I agree with just about everything you said, just not the basis for your statements.[/QUOTE] And yet you somehow missed any part of his actual arguments, focusing on what he was saying about the general people instead of the fact that nothing you say needs to be taught as a class isn't already being taught/has the possibility of fitting into an already-existing class. [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Matix;29634377]That's the problem. If only the people who were interested in learning English learned English, the world would be filled to the brim with illiterates. I'm talking 80-90% of the global population being completely illiterate. Same goes for any other subject. If it isn't required, a huge percentage of people won't bother.[/QUOTE] In order to fufull the requirements of class credits, you need to know english. People learn it. In the same way, people learn how to use a computer. If you need to have knowledge of excel to take accounting, you learn/are taught to use excel. You seem to think that we somehow cheat kids out of any possibility of learning how to use a computer when most kids pick it up from school anyways.

I agree with you about us needing generally better tech education, but I strongly disagree when you said maths isn't as important. Maths is utterly vital for most of the technology that underpins our society. At the very least it's as important as learning to use a computer, and probably more so. And not everyone wants to or can teach themselves maths from the internet, that's crazy. [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] [IMG]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png[/IMG] This process and experience from trial and error has taught me more than any IT class I was ever in.

My GCSE level test on ICT asks me if a keyboard is an input or output device, and to write an excel formulae to add the total of something up :suicide: I picked ICT because I wanted to learn how computers work, not fucking powerpoints

I just wish programming classes didn't fufill math requirements in most places, I keep getting stuck with people who don't know anything about how to write an equation. Thank god it's only the entry-level classes, though.

[QUOTE=Greenen72;29634559]In order to fufull the requirements of class credits, you need to know english. People learn it. In the same way, people learn how to use a computer. If you need to have knowledge of excel to take accounting, you learn/are taught to use excel. You seem to think that we somehow cheat kids out of any possibility of learning how to use a computer when most kids pick it up from school anyways.[/QUOTE] You just applied the same principle to English classes as you're applying to computer classes to prove their uselessness. So, not only should we not have computer classes, but we should also not have English classes, because kids will learn it anyway. In fact, why have school at all, because people will have to learn this stuff just to [B]live[/B] anyway. You just instantly discredited all of your statements.

[QUOTE=FlashFireSix;29634812]My GCSE level test on ICT asks me if a keyboard is an input or output device, and to write an excel formulae to add the total of something up :suicide: I picked ICT because I wanted to learn how computers work, not fucking powerpoints[/QUOTE] I fell into that pit, GCSE ICT was horrible, I did everything in year 9 needed for the GCSE, but the teacher lost it. year 10 was nothing but playing games, half of year 11 was that also, so I did all the work in half a year and still got a merit

Yeah it is irritating seeing people bring powerpoints in .docx and it doesn't work on computers running Office 2003. I also hate seeing people bring their own laptops to plug into the projector because they don't know how to get the files on the teacher's Mac via flash drive, email, etc. Also people don't know that Google Docs (or gmail period) exists so they deal with MS Office (they even pay hundreds of dollars for it). People also vastly prefer Macs because PC's are "impossible to use" :hurr: And they don't understand the difference between an OS and a PC.

I narrowly avoided doing GCSE IT and did electronics instead, sounds like I dodged a bullet

[QUOTE=Matix;29634920]You just applied the same principle to English classes as you're applying to computer classes to prove their uselessness. So, not only should we not have computer classes, but we should also not have English classes, because kids will learn it anyway. In fact, why have school at all, because people will have to learn this stuff just to [B]live[/B] anyway. You just instantly discredited all of your statements.[/QUOTE] Now you're just being silly. We have english classes because they wouldn't otherwise learn it. If we require english, they learn it. Same with everything else. Giant non sequitur right there, making the statement that schools shouldn't exist because we'll learn everything without being instructed

[QUOTE=The Baconator;29635006]Yeah it is irritating seeing people bring powerpoints in .docx and it doesn't work on computers running Office 2003. I also hate seeing people bring their own laptops to plug into the projector because they don't know how to get the files on the teacher's Mac via flash drive, email, etc. Also people don't know that Google Docs (or gmail period) exists so they deal with MS Office (they even pay hundreds of dollars for it).[/QUOTE] Or OpenOffice.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;29635006]Yeah it is irritating seeing people bring powerpoints in .docx and it doesn't work on computers running Office 2003. I also hate seeing people bring their own laptops to plug into the projector because they don't know how to get the files on the teacher's Mac via flash drive, email, etc. Also people don't know that Google Docs (or gmail period) exists so they deal with MS Office (they even pay hundreds of dollars for it).[/QUOTE] In my experience, Docs is a pain to work when moving the files from Docs to Word/whatever, and making it format correctly. I got fed up with that, and moved to OpenOffice, which is only a bit less useful than Word

[QUOTE=Greenen72;29635029]Now you're just being silly. We have english classes because they wouldn't otherwise learn it. If we require english, they learn it. Same with everything else. Giant non sequitur right there, making the statement that schools shouldn't exist because we'll learn everything without being instructed[/QUOTE] Haha, what the fuck? I'm completely confused now. You said "In order to fufull the requirements of class credits, you need to know english. People learn it." You said the exact same thing about computer technology: that people will learn it because it is required to do various things in other courses. Now you're saying that we must have a class for this because otherwise, we WON'T learn it. You really need to pick a side and stick to it. And I wasn't making those statements, I was extrapolating yours. Your sarcasm meter is clearly broken.

[QUOTE=Matix;29635072]Haha, what the fuck? I'm completely confused now. You said "In order to fufull the requirements of class credits, you need to know english. People learn it." You said the exact same thing about computer technology: that people will learn it because it is required to do various things in other courses. Now you're saying that we must have a class for this because otherwise, we WON'T learn it. You really need to pick a side and stick to it. And I wasn't making those statements, I was extrapolating yours. Your sarcasm meter is clearly broken.[/QUOTE] Yeah, hasty generalization. I say people learn how to do things because the class requires it, so they teach it. You're just taking that post out of context, try reading back a page. As for "we must have a class", yeah, it's called the [I]existing curriculum[/I] You're not extrapolating what I was saying, you were making a straw man. Just drop it and move on to what I said before, about 3 times before the page, mate

[QUOTE=Greenen72;29635162]Yeah, hasty generalization. I say people learn how to do things because the class requires it, so they teach it. You're just taking that post out of context, try reading back a page. As for "we must have a class", yeah, it's called the [I]existing curriculum[/I] You're not extrapolating what I was saying, you were making a straw man. Just drop it and move on to what I said before, about 3 times before the page, mate[/QUOTE] Here's an accurate summary of your opinion: English requires a class, because people will not learn it otherwise. Computer technology and practical use doesn't require a class, because people will learn it otherwise. I disagree that most people will learn it otherwise. Math classes don't typically teach anything relating to computers. Granted, many do. I'm even enrolled in a voluntary math class that utilizes computers. However, this is not true of the majority. English classes also do not typically teach anything pertaining to computers or computer software.

[QUOTE=Matix;29635227]Here's an accurate summary of your opinion: English requires a class, because people will not learn it otherwise. Computer technology and practical use doesn't require a class, because people will learn it otherwise. Math classes don't typically teach anything relating to computers. Granted, many do. I'm even enrolled in a voluntary math class that utilizes computers. However, this is not true of the majority. English classes also do not typically teach anything pertaining to computers or computer software.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you're not getting my point. My opinion: English requires a class because people wouldn't care enough to learn it Computers don't require a class, because you can split up anything in it into any other classes Name any use of a computer that isn't/can't be taught in an existing class. Require a personal finance class that uses excel, require a math class that uses it, something like that. English gets you proficiency in using Powerpoint. You don't need to teach them C++ to understand what you want them to learn

Woah, don't get me wrong. I'm by NO means saying this can't be integrated into existing classes. But for the majority, it isn't. I would by all means advocate the integration of such education into existing classes. It really doesn't matter to me whether it's a separate class or just an integration into existing curriculum, but it is overwhelmingly neither yet.

[QUOTE=Matix;29635313]Woah, don't get me wrong. I'm by NO means saying this can't be integrated into existing classes. But for the majority, it isn't. I would by all means advocate the integration of such education into existing classes. It really doesn't matter to me whether it's a separate class or just an integration into existing curriculum, but it is overwhelmingly neither yet.[/QUOTE] Then I think you're mistaking all but one person in this thread for a nay-sayer

Yeah I know of OpenOffice but I wanted to mention how people don't use gmail and just use yahoo or some horrible email provider. Just last week for a gov project where my class was split into groups to create a video for the class, two groups uploaded it to youtube, and it was taking forever to buffer because the school's internet connection is split among hundreds of computers, and thus it's slow. Some guy then said "Wow your computer sucks teacher!" The teacher says it's not his laptop's fault but the internet connection and then the guy goes "but my video played fine!" His video was not on youtube but brought on DVD :rolleyes: