[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720638]I'm not really upset that they changed, I just don't agree with the business practices. It's only a cost on the creators part. My not supporting the site financially is just all that I can reasonably do to not agree with their practices.
I'm not gonna get Red lol. These algorithm problems started way before Red and were not due to people like me. I used to watch ads for people I liked. But it was advertisers who rocked the boat and ruined that for everyone. Now I can't know who that money is going to, and Red still doesn't address core problems that affect creators getting found. There's just no reason to support a shitty service that I can use freely without problem.[/QUOTE]
People started using Adblock -> # of advertised viewers shrunk -> less revenue -> add longer ads -> revenue grows. Rinse and repeat. I was an Adblock user because I don't like ads, ever. Once they added YT Red, there was no excuse for me to not provide for a service I used. Currently YT Red and the non-adblock users subsidize the platform for adblock leaches. Either YT Red users needs to grow, how much they can squeeze out of non-adblock users does, or the platform is facing a existential problem.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720659]Thanks for starting this off by being condescending.
Anyways, I don't have much to respond to this that I didn't already say to glitch, though that's also not to say a good service like YT can't be profitable, but boy is it lucrative territory if you can pull it off. There's plenty of things you could do differently as a service.
I wish people were willing to use other services, but I can't do much about that. It's all on the creators to stop bitching and move or create a new platform, and I predict that's coming soon.
Red sucks and just tells them they're doing the right thing.[/QUOTE]
You gave zero answers to him about how to solve the problems of copyright management, managing advertisers, and whatnot.
People don't use other services because they value what YouTube offers more.
And doing the right thing about what?
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720659]
It's not, but it also has been shown to hide perfectly good content regularly and possibly has blacklists.
This is where the company needs to be transparent and put in some personal effort rather than pretend nothing is wrong.[/QUOTE] Your argument initially was about content creators being found with it.
What "perfectly good content" was "regularly" hidden for arbitrary reasons? And blacklists aren't a secret, they already admit to blacklisting extremist content from normal promotion.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720659]
Red sucks and just tells them they're doing the right thing.
[/QUOTE]
Red is paying monthly for using the YouTube service, it helps pay for the bandwidth and overhead that it costs to run YouTube - the rest is passed off to the content creators. A Red view is worth ~20X a normal view for a creator.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720659]
This is where the company needs to be transparent and put in some personal effort rather than pretend nothing is wrong.[/QUOTE]
As is evident in this thread, people don't want to hear the truth, that youtube costs are fuckload of money to run, and that money needs to come from somewhere.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52720676]You gave zero answers to him about how to solve the problems of copyright management, managing advertisers, and whatnot.
People don't use other services because they value what YouTube offers more.
And doing the right thing about what?
Your argument initially was about content creators being found with it.
What "perfectly good content" was "regularly" hidden for arbitrary reasons? And blacklists aren't a secret, they already admit to blacklisting extremist content from normal promotion.[/QUOTE]
I can't spend forever delving into how to address every specific problem with creating a platform.
That's their choice then.
Right with their general practices and how they treat channels. Getting Red doesn't do anything to tell them to treat their users better.
Have you not seen the Veritasium video on view counts plummeting after a short time and his thoughts on the system? This has also happened to a number of channels. And I don't mean blacklisting extremist content. I mean some channels claim and show that their videos are getting hidden and automatically demonetized no matter what they do. It happened to Valve News Network on multiple videos in a row, with even a "testing the system video", a benign video with no sound, getting demonetized.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720710]
Right with their general practices and how they treat channels. Getting Red doesn't do anything to tell them to treat their users better.
[/quote]
Red [I]allows[/I] them to treat their creators better.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720710]
Have you not seen the Veritasium video on view counts plummeting after a short time and his thoughts on the system? This has also happened to a number of channels. And I don't mean blacklisting extremist content. I mean some channels claim and show that their videos are getting hidden and automatically demonetized no matter what they do. It happened to Valve News Network on multiple videos in a row, with even a "testing the system video", a benign video with no sound, getting demonetized.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=glitchvid;52720575]
Yes, adblock leaches are inspiring changes on the platform, just take a look at how youtube recommends videos now, and prioritizes watch time over quality content. They're catering to people other than you now...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720710]I can't spend forever delving into how to address every specific problem with creating a platform.[/QUOTE]
if ur gonna argue a competitor can solve copyright or advertising better, it'd help to give detail but ok.
On advertising YouTube could be more transparent, but not really too much more tbh.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720710]
Right with their general practices and how they treat channels. Getting Red doesn't do anything to tell them to treat their users better.[/QUOTE]
The three beefs creators tend to have with YouTube are:
A. Copyright shit.
B. Monetization shit.
and
C. Promotion shit.
More usage of YouTube red more easily allows youtube to treat them better in regards to B.
[quote]Have you not seen the Veritasium video on view counts plummeting after a short time and his thoughts on the system? This has also happened to a number of channels. And I don't mean blacklisting extremist content. I mean some channels claim and show that their videos are getting hidden and automatically demonetized no matter what they do. It happened to Valve News Network on multiple videos in a row, with even a "testing the system video", a benign video with no sound, getting demonetized.[/quote]
Demonetization blacklists are known too, and it's something YouTube should be transparent about. But what is like is that if a large amount of a channels content is deemed unsuitable, how the content gets judged is changed because again, advertiser bitching.
Fewer views than before doesn't equate to "hiding perfectly good content." Algorithm, and viewers come into play. It's not a secret that how promotion works changes. For awhile it was time watched, which fucked over artists at the benefit of people like pewdiepie, for example. Changing how it works isn't hiding perfectly good content.
It allows them to [I]pay[/I] them a bit better, only because they went way overboard with demonetization making many channels unable to reliably get paid from regular views.
[I]Treating[/I] them better is more than just about pay. It's a matter of against-the-grain content getting hidden, about the overall lack of communication when doing so, distancing themselves from small budget earnest works. Getting Red does not fix anything about how YT treats their creators. It enables them to stay profitable themselves and stay the course by presenting a slightly less terrible option. Why should I sell out for that?
Red kind of can. YouTube doesn't hate its creators, but no matter what YouTube thinks, they're beholden to the bottom line. That's why people see them as prioritizing big companies and advertisers over everyone else.
You keep latching onto the idea that normal stuff, that's merely "against the grain" is literally being hidden without evidence.
The stuff that's explicitly and provably hidden is very extreme stuff, such as literal nazi shit, getting placed into a restricted mode. And even that content is still given access to YouTube's massive CDN and infinite storage, and still gets promoted to certain people.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720743]It allows them to [I]pay[/I] them a bit better, only because they went way overboard with demonetization making many channels unable to reliably get paid from regular views.
[I]Treating[/I] them better is more than just about pay. It's a matter of against-the-grain content getting hidden, about the overall lack of communication when doing so, distancing themselves from small budget earnest works. Getting Red does not fix anything about how YT treats their creators. It enables them to stay profitable themselves and stay the course by presenting a slightly less terrible option. Why should I sell out for that?[/QUOTE]
That doesn't make much sense, Adrev 'demoted' (like Ross is) doesn't shut you off from Red revenue as far as I'm aware - it's a problem that literally exists because of Creators being beholden to Adrev partners.
And it literally [I]does[/I] fix how youtube deals with its creators, if youtube had millions of Red subscribers (like say, Netflix) it would allow them to not give a fuck what advertisers did, and just pay out and promote what Red viewers watched most.
Red subscribers aren't selling out, they're being part of the solution.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52720752]Red kind of can. YouTube doesn't hate its creators, but no matter what YouTube thinks, they're beholden to the bottom line. That's why people see them as prioritizing big companies and advertisers over everyone else.
You keep latching onto the idea that normal stuff, that's merely "against the grain" is literally being hidden without evidence.
The stuff that's explicitly and provably hidden is very extreme stuff, such as literal nazi shit, getting placed into a restricted mode. And even that content is still given access to YouTube's massive CDN and infinite storage, and still gets promoted to certain people.[/QUOTE]
But I did show evidence? I listed two channels and explained what happened to each. Vertiasium and VNN
You can see those two guys talking about their issues, as well as plenty of others showing their videos are getting buried with a quick Bing™ search.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720786]You can see those two guys talking about their issues, as well as plenty of others showing their videos are getting buried with a quick Bing™ search.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=glitchvid;52720575]
Yes, adblock leaches are inspiring changes on the platform, just take a look at how youtube recommends videos now, and prioritizes watch time over quality content. They're catering to people other than you now...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52720786]But I did show evidence? I listed two channels and explained what happened to each. Vertiasium and VNN
You can see those two guys talking about their issues, as well as plenty of others showing their videos are getting buried with a quick Bing™ search.[/QUOTE]
VNN had nothing to do with having content "hidden." His problem, as you said, was demonetization.
For veritasium, pewds, etc.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52720735]
Fewer views than before doesn't equate to "hiding perfectly good content." Algorithm, and viewer habits come into play. It's not a secret that how promotion works changes. For awhile it was time watched, which fucked over animators at the benefit of people like pewdiepie, for example. Changing how it works isn't hiding perfectly good content.[/QUOTE]
I'm watching Ve's video on it right now and he honestly seems to be mostly aligned with what I'm saying. He's spending time talking about why the trends that are happening may have happened. For example, on subscribers not getting videos, he finds it likely that people stopped clicking videos of channels they subscribed to, and so to maximize your watch-time and make the front-page as relevant as possible, they stop showing them.
Patreon has to be drowning in creator money now
I wonder if something like LBRY would be better for him
People :huh: at Youtube being so quiet, but this thread shows exactly why the stay quiet about their changes, if they talked candidly they would just upset even more people.
I can't even get Youtube Red in Canada, what the fuck is Google expecting me to do.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;52720913]People :huh: at Youtube being so quiet, but this thread shows exactly why the stay quiet about their changes, if they talked candidly they would just upset even more people.[/QUOTE]
Substantiate this??
I don't get it. People have legit complaints so say nothing lest more people voice their concerns?
Man Ross is right about the job stuff, it feels like half the jobs for anything near me have disappeared even for menial stuff. I've heard about even the lowest of casual jobs having hundreds of applicants because there no fucking work anywhere. I'm tempted at this point to just send dick drawings out with my contact details on it because it seems like even getting to the interview stage is complete luck.
I've gone back to study to try and get a job in a different field that has more constant work (and hopefully won't be automated in 5 years) and I can't shake this feeling that I'm a failure because I didn't get a job after graduating the first time.
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;52720855]I wonder if something like LBRY would be better for him[/QUOTE]
I really hope LBRY takes off, it seems like a really interesting idea. Even just to be more competition for Youtube.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;52720913]People :huh: at Youtube being so quiet, but this thread shows exactly why the stay quiet about their changes, if they talked candidly they would just upset even more people.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure more open honesty from a company would be appreciated, even considering that it would give context for reasons people are upset. Imagine this sentence:
[QUOTE]People :huh: at Valve being so quiet, but this thread shows exactly why the stay quiet about Half-Life 3, if they talked candidly they would just upset even more people.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52721544]I'm pretty sure more open honesty from a company would be appreciated, even considering that it would give context for reasons people are upset. Imagine this sentence:[/QUOTE]
I dont know if thats the best comparison knowing how Valves development cycles involve completely scrapping entire builds and starting from scratch (see: Half-Life 2 and Team Fortress 2).
[QUOTE=AaronM202;52721557]I dont know if thats the best comparison knowing how Valves development cycles involve completely scrapping entire builds and starting from scratch (see: Half-Life 2 and Team Fortress 2).[/QUOTE]
well replace it with TF2 developers or something. The basic principle is the company is providing a service that it claims it doesn't understand, when understanding is as simple as opening their eyes. You can't really take a company seriously if their only explanation is "we dunno how it works either tbh"
Wow, imagine an rogue AI decides if you get money for your job or not.
I feel bad for everyone that relies on income from youtube :/
Why would you pay for Youtube Red exactly? Is there a hidden bonus I don't know about? From where I'm standing it just looks like the next step towards paying for all your favourite websites. On top of that, you're then giving youtube more money than they ever make off of you from ads. That doesn't help anyone.
do we have a youtube red salesman in here or what
[QUOTE=Killer monkey;52721694]Why would you pay for Youtube Red exactly? Is there a hidden bonus I don't know about? From where I'm standing it just looks like the next step towards paying for all your favourite websites. On top of that, you're then giving youtube more money than they ever make off of you from ads. That doesn't help anyone.[/QUOTE]
iirc you get access to YouTube originals (which are kinda meh imo) and some mobile features that a few apps already do for free. also theres a google play music subscribtion alongside youtube red which kinda makes it worth it.
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
Also the mild lukewarm feeling of sending slightly more pennies of revenue to your favorite youtube channels I guess
[QUOTE=Killer monkey;52721694]Why would you pay for Youtube Red exactly? Is there a hidden bonus I don't know about? From where I'm standing it just looks like the next step towards paying for all your favourite websites. On top of that, you're then giving youtube more money than they ever make off of you from ads. That doesn't help anyone.[/QUOTE]
It's basically Ad-free youtube. Plus you get to support the creators you watch directly through YT, instead of needing to subscribe to a bunch of Patreons.
There's also Youtube Red exclusive shows, but TBH most of them suck.
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52721701]do we have a youtube red salesman in here or what[/QUOTE]
If youtube wants to pay me to shill, I wouldn't mind the paycheck. You have my info Google :wink:
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Whomobile;52721712]and some mobile features that a few apps already do for free[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah there's also that. It's what, pre-downloading videos is Red only?
YouTube Red is not available in my country but luckily on both iOS and Android there are multiple ways to play YT videos in the background, in split screen or to download videos.
Thats the hidden part of YT Red people don't know about, you actually get access to these features which were in YouTube anyway before they removed it and put it behind a paywall.
Also, you are going to need a real big company to start a YouTube competitor, besides that its going to be hard to have such a advertiser network behind it to fund the people who create videos.
I've been led to believe that youtube red money is split between every partnered channel, in proportion to their sub count.
So if you pay youtube red, most of your money doesn't go to the small channels you watch regularly that need support, most f it goes to the biggest channels that you don't watch and aren't having ad revenue problems.
[editline]Youtube Red is a fucking scam.[/editline]
Doesn't even matter anyway, Youtube Red isn't even available in the UK.
[QUOTE=ReligiousNutjob;52722042]I've been led to believe that youtube red money is split between every partnered channel, in proportion to their sub count.
So if you pay youtube red, most of your money doesn't go to the small channels you watch regularly that need support, most f it goes to the biggest channels that you don't watch and aren't having ad revenue problems.
[editline]Youtube Red is a fucking scam.[/editline]
Doesn't even matter anyway, Youtube Red isn't even available in the UK.[/QUOTE]
I've heard directly from multiple youtubers that red views are worth more
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
an editor for Oney and SuperMega:
[media]https://twitter.com/its_helixD/status/907371770583293952[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/prozdkp/status/912771557071708162[/media]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/wK9M0OP.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=ReligiousNutjob;52722042]I've been led to believe that youtube red money is split between every partnered channel, in proportion to their sub count.
So if you pay youtube red, most of your money doesn't go to the small channels you watch regularly that need support, most f it goes to the biggest channels that you don't watch and aren't having ad revenue problems.
[editline]Youtube Red is a fucking scam.[/editline]
Doesn't even matter anyway, Youtube Red isn't even available in the UK.[/QUOTE]
Last I read from YT itself, the red money gets piled into one lump sum, then a percentage is taken for the operation of YouTube, then the rest is dolled out depending on the number of minutes watched by Red users.
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