Dunkey - Worst Hanzo Ever - General

Nobody is arguing about QP being QP. My point since the beginning has been "Do dumb shit in QP, play meta in comp". Also, I'd love for everybody to play what they want, but that's simply impossible. If we did that, we'd end up with all matches having 4 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer. I'd rather have a shitty healer than a good extra DPS. Also, being able to flex is a skill in itself, if you don t have it you're not a good player. If you play classes you're not comfortable with you'll become good at them.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51175995]Nobody is arguing about QP being QP. My point since the beginning has been "Do dumb shit in QP, play meta in comp". Also, I'd love for everybody to play what they want, but that's simply impossible. If we did that, we'd end up with all matches having 4 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer. I'd rather have a shitty healer than a good extra DPS. Also, being able to flex is a skill in itself, if you don t have it you're not a good player. If you play classes you're not comfortable with you'll become good at them.[/QUOTE] Comp is not the place to "practice" or "experiment" that's what Quick Play is for. Quick Play isn't just some casual environment to fuck around, it can be used in a hardcore manner to. Just don't treat it like comp. Strong players who like comp can use Quick Play to hone skills deemed too risky to try out in comp. I would rather take someone who's comfortable in their role and hero in comp. The reason why is because it's not that simple to just say, "Okay play healer, even though you never really touch the role." If someone is comfortable in their role, it means they can concentrate on winning and not figuring out how to do their job. I'm not going to let a player who never plays healer, play healer and then be confused on why we're losing. If you threw them in the role of the healer with a hero even as simple as someone as Mercy, then they need to focus on the character's mechanics and job, team synergy, understanding the map as a different hero, learn the healer role on the fly all the while concentrating on working with the team to accomplish their goal. You can be good at a character and still be bad at Overwatch. Learning the character is only half of it. Once you've learned the nuances and mechanics of how to play a character, that's when you play them in comp. You know what your character is supposed to do and where you sit in regards to your team so you narrow down the amount of things you are required to focus on when playing a hero you're comfortable with. Trying to experiment in comp is one of the worst decisions you can do because scenarios you aren't familiar with ensures you will second guess yourself and when you're playing to win, your success shouldn't be decided on, "Is this the right thing to do?" Stick with what you're comfortable with, pick out any flaws and iron them out in Quick Play.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51175995]Nobody is arguing about QP being QP. My point since the beginning has been "Do dumb shit in QP, play meta in comp". Also, I'd love for everybody to play what they want, but that's simply impossible. If we did that, we'd end up with all matches having 4 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer. I'd rather have a shitty healer than a good extra DPS. Also, being able to flex is a skill in itself, if you don t have it you're not a good player. If you play classes you're not comfortable with you'll become good at them.[/QUOTE] See, it's not impossible. I play what I want, and have fun with the game. If someone tells me to switch (instead of asking politely [rare]) I squelch and mute them. Still win games just as much as any other person. Believe it or not the person playing the class has a bit more insight on what roles they perform well with than you. Example: I went winston while playing defense on Watchpoint and some lovely gent mocked me "harambe on defense what is wrong with you". After that the enemy team couldn't budge the payload because I excel at winston and I had half of them trying to fight me from spawn most of the time. My point is that just because a character is at the bottom of your special ~meta~ table, doesn't mean a player can't excel at that character. Even if the player isn't doing good, chill out and don't be an asshole, nobody is 100% good 100% of the time. You're only more likely to do even shittier by alt-tabbing out of the game (lmfao) and telling off your teammates which brings a negative mindset. [QUOTE=JohnnyOnFlame;51175793]I'm sorry, but no. I understand that there are assholes out there that will go fully nuts, but if you want to "play for fun" go do Normal games, otherwise cooperate with your team and play meta. I'm tired of people pulling off shit picks, playing like garbage and refusing to even utter a single word of communication. At least try to give us some logic for why you're making that choice that isn't "lol its fun", otherwise go hit up the pub games, there's no shame in that. Leave Ranked for people willing to actually play as team and communicate. [t]http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png[/t] You're aware that dunkey has a history of being a toxic asshole, right?[/QUOTE] If there was a mode that worked like ranked wherein you have the long, fair matches, a hero limit, and the game matched you with people of similar skill level, but didn't have an official leaderboard I'd totally play that instead, but there isn't. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm not playing just to win, I'm primarily playing to have fun (and I pity you if this isn't your main reason for playing too), and in ranked I have a better chance of having fun because of the reasons I've listed. Also nice irrelevant comic. here's something more relevent [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/dlpjoj.png[/t]

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51176139]See, it's not impossible. I play what I want, and have fun with the game. If someone tells me to switch (instead of asking politely [rare]) I squelch and mute them. Still win games just as much as any other person. Believe it or not the person playing the class has a bit more insight on what roles they perform well with than you. Example: I went winston while playing defense on Watchpoint and some lovely gent mocked me "harambe on defense what is wrong with you". After that the enemy team couldn't budge the payload because I excel at winston and I had half of them trying to fight me from spawn most of the time. My point is that just because a character is at the bottom of your special ~meta~ table, doesn't mean a player can't excel at that character. Even if the player isn't doing good, chill out and don't be an asshole, nobody is 100% good 100% of the time. You're only more likely to do even shittier by alt-tabbing out of the game (lmfao) and telling off your teammates which brings a negative mindset. [/QUOTE] I realize that this is an example but whoever was telling you to switch off winston was wrong as he is actually one of the top picks for tank- just behind rein and zarya. While I agree the meta isn't always right if you are playing comp you should be willing to change to what the team needs rather than just playing whatever you want. Ideally if your playing comp you should be able to play 1 frontline dps, 1 flanker, 1 tank and 1 heal to a decent level, and be up for switching to another role if you get hard countered (playing Pharah v Mcree/soldier.

[QUOTE=rovar;51176093]Comp is not the place to "practice" or "experiment" that's what Quick Play is for. Quick Play isn't just some casual environment to fuck around, it can be used in a hardcore manner to. Just don't treat it like comp. Strong players who like comp can use Quick Play to hone skills deemed too risky to try out in comp. I would rather take someone who's comfortable in their role and hero in comp. The reason why is because it's not that simple to just say, "Okay play healer, even though you never really touch the role."[/quote] I take Quickplay seriously, there problem it's not me, it's other people. Unless you want to practice things with reflex and aim based skills, like McCree, Hanzo, Zarya, Mei, etc, quickplay is useless. I can still practice my aim with McCree if I'm playing with an Offense Torbjorn, 2 Widowmakers, a Reinhardt and a Mercy. I can't really practice proper buffing with Lucio if the entire team plays passive. And no, I'm not going to jump into a Quickplay server just to tell people to switch off, that's the casual environment where this kind of thing is really uncalled for. If instead of going "Nah I can't play healer" people actually played healer for a few rounds, the problem would not exist. [quote]If someone is comfortable in their role, it means they can concentrate on winning and not figuring out how to do their job. I'm not going to let a player who never plays healer, play healer and then be confused on why we're losing. If you threw them in the role of the healer with a hero even as simple as someone as Mercy, then they need to focus on the character's mechanics and job, team synergy, understanding the map as a different hero, learn the healer role on the fly all the while concentrating on working with the team to accomplish their goal. You can be good at a character and still be bad at Overwatch. Learning the character is only half of it.[/quote] As I said, this is competitive, aka Super Serious Mode, We Don't Fuck Around Here, and being able to flex is a skill. Not being able to aim makes you a bad DPS. Not being able to position yourself makes you a bad tank. Not being able to focus heal instead of aggro'ing the enemy team makes you a bad Healer. Not being able to flex makes you an all around bad player. [quote]Once you've learned the nuances and mechanics of how to play a character, that's when you play them in comp.[/quote] Ok, maybe this is a fundamental problem with the fact that I'm not speaking enough. My experience is with 100+ level players at Upper Platinum\Lower Diamond. If in 100+ level you have not tried all the heroes at least a bit, to the point you don't understand the mechanics of them, well maybe you've wasted a whole lot of time playing the same two heroes? [quote]You know what your character is supposed to do and where you sit in regards to your team so you narrow down the amount of things you are required to focus on when playing a hero you're comfortable with. Trying to experiment in comp is one of the worst decisions you can do because scenarios you aren't familiar with ensures you will second guess yourself and when you're playing to win, your success shouldn't be decided on, "Is this the right thing to do?" Stick with what you're comfortable with, pick out any flaws and iron them out in Quick Play.[/QUOTE] But those situations never occur in quickplay, so you can't really iron them out. I agree that there should be a gamemode, Unranked Comp, that should be a combination of quickplay's lack of responsibility with Ranked's hero limit, but until that becomes a thing, I only see three situations: 1) You only play quickplay. Fine enough. 2) You play Competitive. You take the responsibility of helping your teammates. If that means playing a class you're not comfortable with, you suck it up and [I]try to improve[/I]. 3) You play Competitive. You disregard your team needs. You're "that guy" everybody hates. I have no problems with bad players as long as they try their best.

[QUOTE=A.C.I.D;51176204]I realize that this is an example but whoever was telling you to switch off winston was wrong as he is actually one of the top picks for tank- just behind rein and zarya. While I agree the meta isn't always right if you are playing comp you should be willing to change to what the team needs rather than just playing whatever you want. Ideally if your playing comp you should be able to play 1 frontline dps, 1 flanker, 1 tank and 1 heal to a decent level, and be up for switching to another role if you get hard countered (playing Pharah v Mcree/soldier.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I still counterpick and everything. I just can't imagine tolerating people trying to control how other people spend their time in a video game.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51176205]I take Quickplay seriously, there problem it's not me, it's other people. Unless you want to practice things with reflex and aim based skills, like McCree, Hanzo, Zarya, Mei, etc, quickplay is useless. I can still practice my aim with McCree if I'm playing with an Offense Torbjorn, 2 Widowmakers, a Reinhardt and a Mercy. I can't really practice proper buffing with Lucio if the entire team plays passive. And no, I'm not going to jump into a Quickplay server just to tell people to switch off, that's the casual environment where this kind of thing is really uncalled for. If instead of going "Nah I can't play healer" people actually played healer for a few rounds, the problem would not exist. As I said, this is competitive, aka Super Serious Mode, We Don't Fuck Around Here, and being able to flex is a skill. Not being able to aim makes you a bad DPS. Not being able to position yourself makes you a bad tank. Not being able to focus heal instead of aggro'ing the enemy team makes you a bad Healer. Not being able to flex makes you an all around bad player. Ok, maybe this is a fundamental problem with the fact that I'm not speaking enough. My experience is with 100+ level players at Upper Platinum\Lower Diamond. If in 100+ level you have not tried all the heroes at least a bit, to the point you don't understand the mechanics of them, well maybe you've wasted a whole lot of time playing the same two heroes? But those situations never occur in quickplay, so you can't really iron them out. I agree that there should be a gamemode, Unranked Comp, that should be a combination of quickplay's lack of responsibility with Ranked's hero limit, but until that becomes a thing, I only see three situations: 1) You only play quickplay. Fine enough. 2) You play Competitive. You take the responsibility of helping your teammates. If that means playing a class you're not comfortable with, you suck it up and [I]try to improve[/I]. 3) You play Competitive. You disregard your team needs. You're "that guy" everybody hates. I have no problems with bad players as long as they try their best.[/QUOTE] Overwatch fundamentally plays out correctly in 99% of all QP games. You're talking as if Quick Play is just this insanely different game mode than comp. People still deliver payloads, and act on objectives as they're supposed to. The comps might not be optimal and people sometimes might not try their hardest but saying you can't practice your hero other than "reflex and aim based skills" is fucking stupid. I play all the roles pretty competently and I can safely say each character can be individually trained inside QP. If you honestly can't train your role inside QP then you're probably playing the game wrong. If Quick Play didn't train fundamental role skillsets, then how the fuck would people get better? I'll bet you anything they don't get better by fucking up in comp all the time. If what you're saying is true, comp should only be filled with players who only practiced aim and no other role because they couldn't. Also, I'm quite aware what the difference is between QP and comp is. Being able to "flex" (whatever the fuck that means) doesn't justify assuming players are just as optimal in the same skillset as you. No shit not being able to aim makes you a bad DPS, but chances are the person who doesn't like playing a particular role who gets matched in YOUR skill rating, will most likely have a role they do prefer. So put them in that role. Don't tell them to "suck it up" and tell them to play a role they'll be shitty in, that's how you lose games. Statistically, in a 6 man game premade or not, every person there will have enough to contribute to satisfy whatever comp needs to be filled. It's basically impossible to have 6 people stuck into a game in comp, who have never played more than a couple heroes, that just doesn't happen often enough to make it an issue. You're under the assumption that every person who goes into comp should have a equally strong understanding of each character and role as someone who mains a few heroes. That's absurd to assume. Competitive mode is designed to have players around that skill level matched with you. There's often no such thing as a "bad player" beyond a certain threshold because bad and good are subjective terms used to describe broad skill levels across any given spectrum in a particular instance. I play in the upper diamond range close to 4,000 SR and a couple of my premade teammates are over 4k. I also encounter "bad" players there, but overall they're strong players. They played poorly that round, they were off their game, who knows but bad players is in relation to how everyone else is doing. Bad players get stuck in low SR, stronger players advance. That's kind of the point of having a rating based system, where you can separate and weed out players not suited for that level of play whatever it may be. Also you can't say, "those situations never occur in quickplay" because they 100% do. Scenarios that appear in Quick Play appear all the time in comp, and knowing how to competently handle it in comp is directly derived from how well you perform in QP. The only difference is that if you fuck up in a crucial situation in QP it won't hurt you. Then if you learn, you can take that knowledge with you in comp and if you see things replicated you'll be equipped to handle it. And why would there be a gamemode with QP's 1 character limit. That doesn't help anything. The biggest things that separates QP from comp is mentality, and playing to win. If there's nothing on the line, people would still fuck around, but just without hero stacking. It WOULD benefit the people just wanting to enjoy the game competitively with little risk, but the reality is that you can't separate the 2. It's competitive BECAUSE there's shit on the line, and it's a direct reflection of your best ability to play the game. If there isn't that competitive nature, people just won't try.

[QUOTE=rovar;51176321]Overwatch fundamentally plays out correctly in 99% of all QP games. You're talking as if Quick Play is just this insanely different game mode than comp. People still deliver payloads, and act on objectives as they're supposed to. The comps might not be optimal and people sometimes might not try their hardest but saying you can't practice your hero other than "reflex and aim based skills" is fucking stupid. I play all the roles pretty competently and I can safely say each character can be individually trained inside QP. If you honestly can't train your role inside QP then you're probably playing the game wrong.[/quote] Tanks and Healers are pretty heavily reliant on their teammates. It's not impossible to train them in QP, it's just hard and not optimal. [quote]Also, I'm quite aware what the difference is between QP and comp is. Being able to "flex" (whatever the fuck that means)[/quote] "flex" means being "flexible" and being able to play multiple heroes decently. It's a pretty common term. [quote] doesn't justify assuming players are just as optimal in the same skillset as you. No shit not being able to aim makes you a bad DPS, but chances are the person who doesn't like playing a particular role who gets matched in YOUR skill rating, will most likely have a role they do prefer. So put them in that role. Don't tell them to "suck it up" and tell them to play a role they'll be shitty in, that's how you lose games. Statistically, in a 6 man game premade or not, every person there will have enough to contribute to satisfy whatever comp needs to be filled. It's basically impossible to have 6 people stuck into a game in comp, who have never played more than a couple heroes, that just doesn't happen often enough to make it an issue.[/quote] Yeah but unfortunately players in Comp are not all seeing and all knowing. You don't know who is actually good at what, you only know who is picking what (and you can only hope they're good at it). If everything went well all the time nobody would be complaining about Hanzos and Widowmakers, yet you get shitters that only play Widowmaker Offense\Defense all the time despite the fact that they can't hit a thing. THIS is why people told Dunkey to switch off Hanzo, because Hanzo is a hard hero to play and you have no fucking idea if they're gonna be up to the job. Your argument ignores the fact that people rarely play what they're good with, they play what they want to play, and you have to tell them to switch and hope they DO switch if they're not doing good. I tell people to not play Pharah when the enemy has a good McCree. Sometimes they listen to me, sometimes they don't. I can't do much more than that. I played the game a lot and found at least one favourite in every category. I expect people of similar level to do the same. [quote] Competitive mode is designed to have players around that skill level matched with you. There's often no such thing as a "bad player" beyond a certain threshold because bad and good are subjective terms used to describe broad skill levels across any given spectrum in a particular instance. I play in the upper diamond range close to 4,000 SR and a couple of my premade teammates are over 4k. I also encounter "bad" players there, but overall they're strong players. They played poorly that round, they were off their game, I don't know but bad players is in relation to how everyone else is doing. Bad players get stuck in low SR, stronger players advance. That's kind of the point of having a rating based system, where you can separate and weed out players not suited for that level of play whatever it may be.[/quote] Obviously when I say "bad" it's always relative, there is no "absolute" quantifier for badness. [quote]Also you can't say, "those situations never occur in quickplay" because they 100% do. Scenarios that appear in Quick Play appear all the time in comp, and knowing how to competently handle it in comp is directly derived from how well you perform in QP. The only difference is that if you fuck up in a crucial situation in QP it won't hurt you. Then if you learn, you can take that knowledge with you in comp and if you see things replicated you'll be equipped to handle it.[/quote] Obviously the situations happen sometimes, but that "sometimes" equals "much less often than in comp". The number of things that can happen is also polluted by all those scenarios that can't even happen in comp, like playing against four tracers. [quote]And why would there be a gamemode with QP's 1 character limit. That doesn't help anything. The biggest things that separates QP from comp is mentality, and playing to win. If there's nothing on the line, people would still fuck around, but just without hero stacking.[/QUOTE] Except HybridTheroy up here JUST said he plays comp with a less-than-comp mentality, and he'd rather play something that's not comp while still looking quite like it. So it would change [I]something[/I] for sure.

holy shit i cannot believe how salty some of you guys are getting over this it's a video game, relax. even if it's 'competitive', none of you are at the ranks where being a tryhard is justified. none of you are professionals playing the game at tournements. Relax. People are playing to have fun at the end of the day, that's how EVERYONE should be playing, comp or not. If you can't understand that, it's literally the definition of tryhard

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51176383] Yeah but unfortunately players in Comp are not all seeing and all knowing. You don't know who is actually good at what, you only know who is picking what (and you can only hope they're good at it). If everything went well all the time nobody would be complaining about Hanzos and Widowmakers, yet you get shitters that only play Widowmaker Offense\Defense all the time despite the fact that they can't hit a thing. THIS is why people told Dunkey to switch off Hanzo, because Hanzo is a hard hero to play and you have no fucking idea if they're gonna be up to the job. [/QUOTE] You're right, players aren't all seeing and all knowing. So what's worse, seeing someone picking hanzo and assuming they'll be fine, or seeing someone picking hanzo and assuming he is throwing the game? Let your teammate play. If someone is actually doing so poor that the loss would actually solely be their fault, chances are they are gonna end up switching anyway. And if they don't and you lose, so what? There's always next game (and the game after), it only takes 5 minutes or less to get into another match. Also, if you have to be winning in order to have fun, and losing makes you so frustrated you spend the entire match typing messages, you should probably take a solid few days away from the game. P.S. Another funny thing I see in Overwatch is how nobody ever considers that the enemy team was just doing really good.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51176515]You're right, players aren't all seeing and all knowing. So what's worse, seeing someone picking hanzo and assuming they'll be fine, or seeing someone picking hanzo and assuming he is throwing the game?[/quote] Yeah, except experience tells people the hanzo is probably bad. Also it's not like people were screaming at Dunkey or shit, they just asked him if he could play anything else. [quote]Let your teammate play. If someone is actually doing so poor that the loss would actually solely be their fault, chances are they are gonna end up switching anyway. And if they don't and you lose, so what? There's always next game (and the game after), it only takes 5 minutes or less to get into another match. [/quote] "They're probably end up switching anyway" except when they don't. Even when you ask them. That's the entire point. [quote] Also, if you have to be winning in order to have fun, and losing makes you so frustrated [B]you spend the entire match typing messages[/B], you should probably take a solid few days away from the game.[/quote] This is the equivalent of "you mad bro". No, typing two lines of text in the 60 seconds that intercur between one round and the other it not the "entire match". I'm not a fucking turtle. I type fast. [quote] P.S. Another funny thing I see in Overwatch is how nobody ever considers that the enemy team was just doing really good.[/QUOTE] Sometime it happens that one team is gigantic synergy. It's rarer than the enemy team just abusing a hole in your team. [editline]9th October 2016[/editline] Like the best hanzos are the ones who pre-emptively type "I'm gonna switch if it does not work" in chat

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51176530]Yeah, except experience tells people the hanzo is probably bad. Also it's not like people were screaming at Dunkey or shit, they just asked him if he could play anything else. "They're probably end up switching anyway" except when they don't. Even when you ask them. That's the entire point. This is the equivalent of "you mad bro". No, typing two lines of text in the 60 seconds that intercur between one round and the other it not the "entire match". I'm not a fucking turtle. I type fast. Sometime it happens that one team is gigantic synergy. It's rarer than the enemy team just abusing a hole in your team. [editline]9th October 2016[/editline] Like the best hanzos are the ones who pre-emptively type "I'm gonna switch if it does not work" in chat[/QUOTE] Okay, so you're saying you'd rather assume the player is bad. Speaks volumes if you ask me. Your second line is missing my point. There's a extremely small ass chance that someone picking a class you don't like is actually going to be such a detriment to the team that the blame for losing lay solely on him/her. Even if that were to happen, 5 minutes from then you'll be playing a different match. Forget that what I said reminds you of a dumb meme, if you need to win in order to be having fun, you should probably take a solid few days away from the game.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51176547]Okay, so you're saying you'd rather assume the player is bad. Speaks volumes if you ask me. [/quote] I only assume the player is bad if the player is playing Sniper. You know. The extremely complex class which even the best players in the world have trouble using. That one. [quote]Your second line is missing my point. There's a extremely small ass chance that someone picking a class you don't like is actually going to be such a detriment to the team that the blame for losing lay solely on him/her. Even if that were to happen, 5 minutes from then you'll be playing a different match.[/quote] Overwatch it's an extremely team reliant game. A team is really only as strong as its weakest player. [quote] Forget that what I said reminds you of a dumb meme, if you need to win in order to be having fun, you should probably take a solid few days away from the game.[/QUOTE] I can have fun when our team is losing, and everybody is doing their best. I can't have fun when my teammates do dumb shit on purpose. Shit like this: [t]http://i.imgur.com/87mkLUb.jpg[/t] Tell me shit like this is fine.

"boo hoo i hate people who want to have fun"

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51176577] Shit like this: [t]http://i.imgur.com/87mkLUb.jpg[/t] Tell me shit like this is fine.[/QUOTE] oh no man what are they thinking you could lose oh shit!! half of your team just straight up throwing the god damn match oh fuck 30 rank points down the drain watch out you aint ever gonna be top 500 at this rate oh no!!

Annoyed Grunt I'm going to be honest, you seem like the worst kind of tryhard. Being such a salty bitch is what ruins games for your team mates, not the fact that they chose Hanzo on defence or Winston on offence.

:dogchill:

The only time I get [B]real[/B] pissed is when the last guy to choose picks reaper over a healer. (in the context of the team not already having a healer) Also the kind of tryhards I hate are ones that are like "I have gold kills, I'm better than you" and then proceed to get really mad about it. That is actually a quote from a game I played last night. Everytime I see someone like that I get Vietnam style flashbacks to playing CoD in my youth. Or those Reinhardts that charge way ahead of the payload, right into a swarm of enemies then bitch about not getting heals. tl;dr only idiots annoy me.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;51176711]Annoyed Grunt I'm going to be honest, you seem like the worst kind of tryhard. Being such a salty bitch is what ruins games for your team mates, not the fact that they chose Hanzo on defence or Winston on offence.[/QUOTE] for me, hero choice isn't a problem unless they're being useless, that's when I nicely ask them to swap if you keep getting picked off by the enemy winston, maybe hanzo isn't the best choice

Well I guess I'm just a gigantic dick then. C'est la vie. I simply cannot fathom not being competitive in competitive mode.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51177140]Well I guess I'm just a gigantic dick then. C'est la vie. I simply cannot fathom not being competitive in competitive mode.[/QUOTE] Dude they told you a thousand times. They are being competitive, they're just not following a cookie-cutter setup because they're good at heroes most people aren't good at. That's not playing suboptimally or not being competitive, quite the opposite. They got the skills and they're cashing them in rather than playing according to some rigid established setup formed to get noobs to climb ranks easily with cheap heroes.

*snip* Didn't read. But dunkey is good.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51177140]Well I guess I'm just a gigantic dick then. C'est la vie. I simply cannot fathom not being competitive in competitive mode.[/QUOTE] Being competetive doesn't mean being a dick, especially to your own teammates. I played sports for the longest time, and my coaches always wanted us to play and practice hard to be competitive, [I]but also not be a dick[/I]. like god damn, have some sportsmanship.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51176139]See, it's not impossible. I play what I want, and have fun with the game. If someone tells me to switch (instead of asking politely [rare]) I squelch and mute them. Still win games just as much as any other person. Believe it or not the person playing the class has a bit more insight on what roles they perform well with than you. Example: I went winston while playing defense on Watchpoint and some lovely gent mocked me "harambe on defense what is wrong with you". After that the enemy team couldn't budge the payload because I excel at winston and I had half of them trying to fight me from spawn most of the time. My point is that just because a character is at the bottom of your special ~meta~ table, doesn't mean a player can't excel at that character. Even if the player isn't doing good, chill out and don't be an asshole, nobody is 100% good 100% of the time. You're only more likely to do even shittier by alt-tabbing out of the game (lmfao) and telling off your teammates which brings a negative mindset. If there was a mode that worked like ranked wherein you have the long, fair matches, a hero limit, and the game matched you with people of similar skill level, but didn't have an official leaderboard I'd totally play that instead, but there isn't. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm not playing just to win, I'm primarily playing to have fun (and I pity you if this isn't your main reason for playing too), and in ranked I have a better chance of having fun because of the reasons I've listed. Also nice irrelevant comic. here's something more relevent [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/dlpjoj.png[/t][/QUOTE] I find my fun in actually joining a match, glhf'ing people, communicating and losing/winning Ranked matches where I was actually being competitive and engaging with the team. If you're not picking complementary heroes and/or not comunicating, you're making Ranked matches less fair for your team, and thus less fun for whoever shares my idea of fun. Why is this so dumb and tryhard-y? Is it too hard to understand that maybe I actually enjoy cooperating with total strangers in a game? Btw, your comic is pretty irrelevant if you're going to tie it to my post, I -always- ask people to [B]consider[/B] a repick if his choice isn't working. I pretty much understand the idea that you might excel at a certain hero and be unable to play others for whatever reason you might have, but in overwatch team composition is more than just lone fragging/damaging. I try my best not to be an asshole about it and I actually disencourage my friends from being toxic garbage when I'm playing in group. But you [B]can[/B] have fun in a game in other ways that aren't "LMAO SYMMETRA SO FUN" or "D'VA MY WAIFU".

[QUOTE=Drury;51177252]Dude they told you a thousand times. They are being competitive, they're just not following a cookie-cutter setup because they're good at heroes most people aren't good at.[/quote] I'd love to believe this is true, but most of the time this is not true. You can go ask anybody on the Overwatch forum and you'll know that every single one of the shudders at the thought of the feared Sniper Main. And even if it is true, you're telling me that despite the fact that you have the superior positioning, aiming, and gamesense required to play Bastion you still cannot play any of the easier, not underpowered classes? [quote]That's not playing suboptimally or not being competitive, quite the opposite. They got the skills and they're cashing them in rather than playing according to some rigid established setup formed to get noobs to climb ranks easily with cheap heroes.[/QUOTE] The setup is very far away from rigid, and the heroes are far away from "cheap". The game's got 22 heroes. These are exactly all the situations where I'll ask you to switch: 1) Hanzo: if I see you're not hitting headshots, I'll ask you to switch. Hanzo is an extremely polarizing character not even actual pros can play consistently. 2) Widowmaker: like Hanzo, except she's worse. I've seen a few amazing widowmakers, but they're few and far between. 3) Pharah: if the enemy team has a decent McCree, Pharah gets countered super-hard. 4) Bastion: Bastion is one of the most underpowered heroes at the moment. He needs constant babysitting and a player who has a good gamesense. And that's on defense. On offense, unless you're going for a surprise stat (and if you are, you could just type that in chat, "i'm going bastion next fight to take them by surprise) it simply does not work, ever. 5) D.va: D.va if the enemy team has a Zarya (and since Zarya has a 95% pickrate), and she's decent, she's gonna shut you hard. 6) Symmetra: if you're playing Symmetra anywhere other than 1st point defense, I (and pretty much anybody I've met ever in this game other than said Symmetra players) will consider you a griefer if you don't switch when asked to. The Overwatch meta (especially at my level) is extremely vast. But there [I]are[/I] some situations where you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Sometimes you'll manage to win the race with a wounded foot, but really, don't be surprised I'm skeptical. [editline]9th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=bdd458;51177523]Being competetive doesn't mean being a dick, especially to your own teammates. I played sports for the longest time, and my coaches always wanted us to play and practice hard to be competitive, [I]but also not be a dick[/I]. like god damn, have some sportsmanship.[/QUOTE] I try not being a dick. It's hard because being easily angered is a thing in my family (got it from my father). I am working on it. Not really proud to say I've gotten to the "actively shouting stage into the mic" once, and I threw 2 games. (obviously this was over the course of almost 1000 matches and 160 hours of gameplay , so It's not like I go insulting the first bloke I find).

I could get over the fact that people don't really want to do team composition in Comp sometimes, especially in Quick Play since it's not so important there. But the one thing that really gets on my fucking nerves are people who play nothing but one character only and sometimes even go into Comp with this. I have encountered so many players who have 140 hours in Widow-Only or Torbjörn only or Hanzo only and never ever tried out any other hero. These people play the game dead wrong if I'm honest, since it's centred around counterpicking.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51177809]I'd love to believe this is true, but most of the time this is not true. You can go ask anybody on the Overwatch forum and you'll know that every single one of the shudders at the thought of the feared Sniper Main. And even if it is true, you're telling me that despite the fact that you have the superior positioning, aiming, and gamesense required to play Bastion you still cannot play any of the easier, not underpowered classes? The setup is very far away from rigid, and the heroes are far away from "cheap". The game's got 22 heroes. These are exactly all the situations where I'll ask you to switch: 1) Hanzo: if I see you're not hitting headshots, I'll ask you to switch. Hanzo is an extremely polarizing character not even actual pros can play consistently. 2) Widowmaker: like Hanzo, except she's worse. I've seen a few amazing widowmakers, but they're few and far between. 3) Pharah: if the enemy team has a decent McCree, Pharah gets countered super-hard. 4) Bastion: Bastion is one of the most underpowered heroes at the moment. He needs constant babysitting and a player who has a good gamesense. And that's on defense. On offense, unless you're going for a surprise stat (and if you are, you could just type that in chat, "i'm going bastion next fight to take them by surprise) it simply does not work, ever. 5) D.va: D.va if the enemy team has a Zarya (and since Zarya has a 95% pickrate), and she's decent, she's gonna shut you hard. 6) Symmetra: if you're playing Symmetra anywhere other than 1st point defense, I (and pretty much anybody I've met ever in this game other than said Symmetra players) will consider you a griefer if you don't switch when asked to. The Overwatch meta (especially at my level) is extremely vast. But there [I]are[/I] some situations where you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Sometimes you'll manage to win the race with a wounded foot, but really, don't be surprised I'm skeptical. [editline]9th October 2016[/editline] I try not being a dick. It's hard because being easily angered is a thing in my family (got it from my father). I am working on it. Not really proud to say I've gotten to the "actively shouting stage into the mic" once, and I threw 2 games. (obviously this was over the course of almost 1000 matches and 160 hours of gameplay , so It's not like I go insulting the first bloke I find).[/QUOTE] The argument isn't about composition or having a competitive mindset or even getting mad at video games. The argument is about dictating how others play the game, and obsessing over meta in such a robotic and elitist manner to the point you fear someone that mains as a sniper being on your team. If someone mains a hero chances are they are competent with them just waiting to see a sniper miss headshots and telling them to switch is pretty dickish I have to say, nobody can be perfect.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51177941]The argument isn't about composition or having a competitive mindset or even getting mad at video games. The argument is about dictating how others play the game, and obsessing over meta in such a robotic and elitist manner to the point you fear someone that mains as a sniper being on your team.[/QUOTE] How is it robotic if I can tell you exactly when I want people to switch? It's not like "I saw Seagull do this thingy so we must copy him!!!" I can actually tell you why some choices are bad in some situations. I play Pharah myself and I will always switch the instant I see a McCree, it's just simply how the game works. Pharah is underpowered at the moment (not as much as other heroes but quite a bit). I can keep playing her against the odds... or I can just accept that, and wait for her to be buffed to the point where playing her in most situations is not a detriment to my team. Also how is it elitist? It's pragmatical. Do you want to win? If yes, you don't do certain things. Remember, while I speak about the "meta", I don't speak about the "Professional Meta". If I wanted to be a complete ass about it, I would always ask people to play Reinhardt - Zarya - Mei - Reaper - Ana - Lucio or Zarya - Winston - Tracer - Genji - Ana - Lucio. If you don't want to win it's not my fault I get angry at you, you're actively wasting my time. [editline]9th October 2016[/editline] Like, all I ask is: 1) have an equilibrated 2-2-2 composition 2) Don't play against your [I]direct counters[/I]

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;51177969]How is it robotic if I can tell you exactly when I want people to switch? It's not like "I saw Seagull do this thingy so we must copy him!!!" I can actually tell you why some choices are bad in some situations. I play Pharah myself and I will always switch the instant I see a McCree, it's just simply how the game works. Pharah is underpowered at the moment (not as much as other heroes but quite a bit). I can keep playing her against the odds... or I can just accept that, and wait for her to be buffed to the point where playing her in most situations is not a detriment to my team. Also how is it elitist? It's pragmatical. Do you want to win? If yes, you don't do certain things. Remember, while I speak about the "meta", I don't speak about the "Professional Meta". If I wanted to be a complete ass about it, I would always ask people to play Reinhardt - Zarya - Mei - Reaper - Ana - Lucio or Zarya - Winston - Tracer - Genji - Ana - Lucio. If you don't want to win it's not my fault I get angry at you, you're actively wasting my time. [editline]9th October 2016[/editline] Like, all I ask is: 1) have an equilibrated 2-2-2 composition 2) Don't play against your [I]direct counters[/I][/QUOTE] You don't see this as robotic? I've definitely killed plenty of Mcree's with Zarya, and Pharah is one my by best heroes. I'm not losing. I'm not trying to lose. The fact that people picking classes you don't want them to pick makes you think they are trying to lose and "actively wasting your time" is what makes you elitist.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51177986]You don't see this as robotic? I've definitely killed plenty of Mcree's with Zarya, and Pharah is one my by best heroes. I'm not losing. I'm not trying to lose. The fact that people picking classes you don't want them to pick makes you think they are trying to lose and "actively wasting your time" is what makes you elitist.[/QUOTE] I don't think they do it on purpose, lol. It's that they're effectively doing that. Maybe you're an amazing Pharah for what I know. If that is the case, not everybody is as good as you. Most average pharahs get wrecked by equally skilled McCrees. It's a matter of logic. If you have an equally skilled McCree and an equally skilled Pharah, the Pharah loses. McCree has a hitscan projectile that can kill Pharah in three hits. Pharah has a physical projectile. While McCree shoots barely faster than Pharah, Pharah has to wait for the rockets to travel, McCree doesn't. McCree also has an easier time aiming because he doesn't need to lead his shoots. McCree is not extremely mobile, but he can strafe quite a bit on the ground and even waste his combat roll to dodge. Pharah, in the air, can't move much. She must get creative by dropping by deactivating her jetpack and using her concussion grenade, which has a long cooldown. Also obviously you're killing McCree as Zarya, Zarya is pretty good against McCree.