I'm thinking about joining Christianity, should I? - General

[QUOTE=Funcoot;19168482]For now. Science is ever changing and [b]nothing[/b] is solid. Anything before the big bang is up in the air. I am not trying to say atheism is irrational or illogical. It is very logical and rational. Not all theism is illogical or irrational, some of it is quite the opposite.[/QUOTE] So? I don't know what happened 537 million and 456 years ago on January fifth. Doesn't mean I'm going to assume aliens had a laser space ship battle at that time.

[QUOTE=Sams Brume;19168493]Fixed part of the list.[/QUOTE] No. How about hundreds of years ago? Hospitals today are still run through churches.

[QUOTE=Sams Brume;19168493]Fixed part of the list.[/QUOTE] Well it also kind of burned those libraries. But whatever.

Wow, so many posts in one hour. This is fucking retarded.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;19168370]you're a really bad atheist fyi you're one of those stupid as fucking rocks ones who gets so ingrained into their own belief that they won't even engage in an intelligent discussion. I'm atheist too, but I'm actually not a close-minded prick or a bad poster (you should look into fixing that). Really, once you say "I'm right you're wrong" without hearing the argument you're being [I]just as bad as a religious zealot.[/I] You're not the answer. You're the fucking problem. You're the kind of person that all of the christians associate us all with. I'm about as godless and as bitter as you can get, but I don't fucking deny history, and I don't deny the positive effects that religion had during the course of human evolution. Get off your fucking high horse and stop being a stubborn jackass and listen to what I'm telling you I'm not going to take the time to explain it all, so I'll just some fairly key ideas: many scientific discoveries in the early dawn of civilization were actually for religious purposes (such as Egyptians developing batteries and concepts of basic electricity in order to instill fear of gods by hooking effigies up and shocking those who touched them to "feel the touch of the gods") - Let's also say the development of astronomy / astrology - the stars were associated with the gods, so people began cataloging them. That's a foundation of science - an organized collection which people routinely study and evaluate (and they were, they studied the phases of the moon, the placements of the stars, found the north celestial pole, etc). there's also the fact that the father of modern physics, Isaac Newton, was a religious scholar, and quite a big one at that then there's how religion created the basis for modern civilization (creating a natural order as opposed to an alpha-male dominated society), founding the basis for fucking democracy (which ties quite heavily into science, look into modernization theory ;D) the earliest group of intellectuals were Monks, they were the ones who studied how the world works. Their hypothesis may have been wrong, but they collected empirical data, cataloged it, shared it, and constantly changed it. They transcribed scrolls into different languages allowing the greater sharing of knowledge throughout cultures if you fight this post, you're seriously a moron. Science and Religion aren't pals now, but Religion gave birth to science. It created the sense of mystery that people explored. Those who attempted to prove god's existence and ground their beliefs in their respective religions ended up finding conclusions that paved the way for modern science to evolve to a manageable concept with concrete ideas. guess what know that guy Darwin? Y'know, the one who conviced us about natural selection and shit? He studied Anglican Theory at university. He went around the world looking for key spots where life started to explain the distribution of life, but found out that ~GUESS WHAT~ he was wrong! don't be fucking stubborn and listen to someone who knows more about this shit than you I'm not one of those stupid fuckers who just reads directly into what he hears, I'm one of the atheists that everyone is supposed to be in order to be taken seriously. Try to be a skeptic, listen to the evidence given to you. don't be a zealot, a radical, whatever the fuck you want to call it. Because while you may be progressive, you're being a fucking dick about it and you're not going to get shit done plus it's just stupid stop that[/QUOTE] And you're just as bad as religious people by speculating without proof. All that would have came to be without religion. Prove me wrong.

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19168472]Cool! I can make a biased list too! [b]Science:[/b] Nuclear Weapons Chemical Weapons Biological Weapons Drugs [b]Religion:[/b] Charities Schools Hospitals Libraries/Records of the Past Orphanages[/QUOTE] I wasn't being biased. Charities, For the church of course Schools, To teach the religion of course Hospitals, For the religious to die of course Libraries, To record the religion of course Orphanages, To teach another generation of a single ideal, of course. Mother Teresa was a cruel cruel person. Oh and you should get off your computer if you think religion brought you it.

[QUOTE=Majache;19168488]Uh, so. We know that matter can't be destroyed. And we don't see matter ever not having existed. So why isn't it logical to assume it was always there.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it isn't. Just remember our ideas and knowledge changes. What we thought was impossible 100 years ago is possible today.

[QUOTE=Kukuzi;19168471]Lol Internet drama. People need to realize that the supernatural [B]is not quantifiable by any human's perception[/B]. That is why it's called, [b]super[/b]natural. Based on this, there is no way any religion on Earth has all their beliefs and theology perfectly in order. As many do, including I, dismiss a belief in a deity simply because it does not follow the laws of nature we have worked so hard to establish. Agnosticism seems like a very logical standpoint with that in mind,[/QUOTE] Therefore unicorns and leprechauns could really exist. Because they are supernatural, and not quantifiable by any human's perception. There isn't any evidence for their existence, therefore considering their existence is illogical, however, you don't know that there aren't. As many do, including I, dismiss a belief in unicorns and leprechauns simply because they do not follow the laws of nature, or logic. Agnosticism seems like a very logical standpoint with that in mind.

[QUOTE=Majache;19168465]uh, what if by consequences of your belief I get screwed over after you die. Cause then you would just be kind of a prick.[/QUOTE] Well, we don't know, do we? That's a large part of religion, not knowing. For me, I see religion as a shot in the dark. There's a chance you might be right, but there's a larger one that you won't. Think of it like this: you're in a thick fog, stuck in a thick mud. Someone is shooting at you. You don't know where the shots are coming from, and you only have a pistol with one bullet. You can either take a random but more or less educated shot, or you can not shoot at all. If you don't shoot, it's certain that you'll be killed. If you do shoot, there's a chance that you'll kill whoever's firing upon you, and survive. Essentially, it's better to do something, rather than nothing.

[QUOTE=Funcoot;19168535]I'm not saying it isn't. Just remember our ideas and knowledge changes. What we thought was impossible 100 years ago is possible today.[/QUOTE] So? Because what we know might be wrong we should assume that it is wrong? Everything is possible. Very, very few things are true.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;19168499]I read your entire post, and all I got from it is that 1) you're angry 2) you don't like me very much but most importantly 3) religion and science used to be more closely related than they are now but in no way did you prove that "science is a child of religion", as you said previously. The only thing remotely close to that in your post was about how many scientific discoveries were made for religious reasons, but this actually implies that religion is a child of science, not the other way around as you claim it.[/QUOTE] the way I see it is that religion came first, people wanted to codify their beliefs, so they started exploring the way the world worked people didn't come to religious conclusions from science are you trying to say that science came first? Because that's pretty wrong

[QUOTE=Archy;19168543] If you don't shoot, it's certain that you'll be killed. If you do shoot, there's a chance that you'll kill whoever's firing upon you, and survive. Essentially, it's better to do something, rather than nothing.[/QUOTE] What if that shot ends up hitting your friend.

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168528]I wasn't being biased. Charities, For the church of course Schools, To teach the religion of course Hospitals, For the religious to die of course Libraries, To record the religion of course Orphanages, To teach another generation of a single ideal, of course. Mother Teresa was a cruel cruel person. Oh and you should get off your computer if you think religion brought you it.[/QUOTE] Couldn't have said it better Carbon! :D

[QUOTE=Majache;19168550]So? Because what we know might be wrong we should assume that it is wrong? Everything is possible. Very, very few things are true.[/QUOTE] So does that not make the idea of theism in some cases rational and logical?

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168528]I wasn't being biased. Charities, For the church of course Schools, To teach the religion of course Hospitals, For the religious to die of course Libraries, To record the religion of course Orphanages, To teach another generation of a single ideal, of course. Mother Teresa was a cruel cruel person. Oh and you should get off your computer if you think religion brought you it.[/QUOTE] Are you a moron, or am I just too dense to see a joke?

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168563]What if that shot ends up hitting your friend.[/QUOTE] You're missing the point. It's better to try and likely fail, than to do nothing and certainly fail.

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168528]I wasn't being biased. Charities, For the church of course Schools, To teach the religion of course Hospitals, For the religious to die of course Libraries, To record the religion of course Orphanages, To teach another generation of a single ideal, of course. Mother Teresa was a cruel cruel person. Oh and you should get off your computer if you think religion brought you it.[/QUOTE] Wow. You are so naive. The church isn't some evil conglomerate out to get you. How about no hospitals at all. Great job! No schools, cool! Nobody learns any science at all! On the libraries and orphanages, you're just being a huge moron.

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;19168525]And you're just as bad as religious people by speculating without proof. All that would have came to be without religion. Prove me wrong.[/QUOTE] it could have but that's not the way it played out I mean I don't really see how the development of morals could've begun without religion as a starting point what else is going to get you to straighten up besides some big jackass in the sky telling you that you'll burn for eternity (or if you're a non judeochristian religion, say, come back as an eggplant in your next life)

[QUOTE=Kukuzi;19168570]Are you a moron, or am I just too dense to see a joke?[/QUOTE] Those hospitals Mother Teresa worked at were more about keeping people in pain and watching them die. The only healing there was "spiritual".

[QUOTE=Archy;19168543]Well, we don't know, do we? That's a large part of religion, not knowing. For me, I see religion as a shot in the dark. There's a chance you might be right, but there's a larger one that you won't. Think of it like this: you're in a thick fog, stuck in a thick mud. Someone is shooting at you. You don't know where the shots are coming from, and you only have a pistol with one bullet. You can either take a random but more or less educated shot, or you can not shoot at all. If you don't shoot, it's certain that you'll be killed. If you do shoot, there's a chance that you'll kill whoever's firing upon you, and survive. Essentially, it's better to do something, rather than nothing.[/QUOTE] Not really. It's more like if you were in an office building and someone reaches into their coat. You can either assume it's business as usual or that he has a gun and fill him full of holes with your conveniently placed tommy gun. I'm the man right behind the man in the coat. And he's just a coat with a scarf hanging out of it.

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;19168525]And you're just as bad as religious people by speculating without proof. All that would have came to be without religion. Prove me wrong.[/QUOTE] Early societies were settled and populated by people believing in the same thing. If they didn't believe they weren't allowed in the cool society. Anyway without the early society and collaboration of these groups having a common belief (religion), science wouldn't have taken place. The individuals would have found the basic facts themselves but it took a collaboration of society to put it all together .

[QUOTE=Funcoot;19168568]So does that not make the idea of theism in some cases rational and logical?[/QUOTE] In the same way that unicorns, Odin, witchcraft, and Glenn Beck are rational.

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19168574]Wow. You are so naive. The church isn't some evil conglomerate out to get you. How about no hospitals at all. Great job! No schools, cool! Nobody learns any science at all! On the libraries and orphanages, you're just being a huge moron.[/QUOTE] Yeah all schools and hospitals are made by a religion. You do know science made the medicine for those hospitals and the books for the schools.

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168582]Those hospitals Mother Teresa worked at were more about keeping people in pain and watching them die. The only healing there was "spiritual".[/QUOTE] You are an idiot. Who ever mentioned Mother Teresa? How about all the Christian hospitals nowadays? OPEN TO EVERYONE.

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168605]Yeah all schools and hospitals are made by a religion. You do know science made the medicine for those hospitals and the books for the schools.[/QUOTE] without science we would be cave men

[QUOTE=Majache;19168600]In the same way that unicorns, Odin, witchcraft, and Glenn Beck are rational.[/QUOTE] I'll take that for tonight, it was pretty funny. I'm tired. Thanks for the good debates people.

[QUOTE=Archy;19168543]Well, we don't know, do we? That's a large part of religion, not knowing. For me, I see religion as a shot in the dark. There's a chance you might be right, but there's a larger one that you won't. Think of it like this: you're in a thick fog, stuck in a thick mud. Someone is shooting at you. You don't know where the shots are coming from, and you only have a pistol with one bullet. You can either take a random but more or less educated shot, or you can not shoot at all. If you don't shoot, it's certain that you'll be killed. If you do shoot, there's a chance that you'll kill whoever's firing upon you, and survive. Essentially, it's better to do something, rather than nothing.[/QUOTE] That is one of the worst analogies for pascal's wager I have ever heard. by Pascal's Wager or what I would call the "better safe then sorry approach", you would have a better chance at winning the lottery, every day, for the rest of your life (You can't even possibly begin to comprehend how impossibly small these odds are.), then to have the correct belief to not going to hell, by chance, out of every possible conceivable god, many gods haven't even been thought of yet, hell, the FSM was a very recent god. And yet, you take those chances, despite evidence pointing to the inevitable conclusion that you will just die, and that will be it. So you corrupt your single time at existence, by taking a silly gamble. (I say corrupt, because having beliefs like that can't really make your life better, unless you get off of being hated by people for being an irrational bigot.) As for your analogy, you miss, and you end up shooting the person who was trying to help you. The person in this case would be science or something like that, as science generally strives toward a better understanding of the universe, which in turn gives us a better and longer life.

[QUOTE=Archy;19168573]You're missing the point. It's better to try and likely fail, than to do nothing and certainly fail.[/QUOTE] Unless you're just being a paranoid git and you get someone else hurt due to your vast incompetence. I like you less and less the more I talk to you.

without religion......we would be better off

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19168582]Those hospitals Mother Teresa worked at were more about keeping people in pain and watching them die. The only healing there was "spiritual".[/QUOTE] I'll be a son-of-a-bitch, you're serious. Religion is rarely taught in schools, and is certainly not a part of our society in the sense that it builds to it. Hospitals, well that is just too damn easy. Wallow in your ignorance. Science is the reason you are on a computer spreading your bullshit now, science is the reason the Bible was able to be printed on paper. God didn't hand it to us, respect human innovation.