I'm thinking about joining Christianity, should I? - General

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19169047]You are scooping up crumbs. Please stop pointing out every little speck of incorrect text I post. There are millions of Christians who are 10 times worse than the people I mentioned.[/QUOTE] To be fair you called millions of people comparable to murderous imbeciles with no perspective. And you do so, because you call us insulting and rude.... Not too small of a mistake.

[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;19169063]Not necessarily, Even if both were wrong they would be doing the same detriment to society.[/QUOTE] That's agreeable. Hell, this whole argument really isn't contributing to society either...

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169056]There are plenty of farmers. You may or may not have noticed, but the nation I live in, the USA, generally has enough food. I believe I can contribute more to society by convincing others to go and stop wasting their Sunday morning, and do something else, paint a painting, write a story, do charity work, something.[/QUOTE] You really think that? Well, that's your choice then. Me? As you just pointed out, there's more than enough food. I might as well go to Mass and feel good about myself. You go on ahead and covince people who don't want to be convinced.

[QUOTE=Archy;19169059][img]http://xore.ca/missingthepoint.png[/img][/QUOTE] Image macros. How intelligent. Anyway, I made my point that what I'm doing, has the potential to be more beneficial to society statistically, then what going to church on Sundays does.

[QUOTE=Archy;19169059][img]http://xore.ca/missingthepoint.png[/img][/QUOTE] Actually he adressed the point quite well.

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19169074]You really think that? Well, that's your choice then. Me? As you just pointed out, there's more than enough food. I might as well go to Mass and feel good about myself. You go on ahead and covince people who don't want to be convinced.[/QUOTE] I'm merely pointing out that there are a lot of other things you could be doing that Sunday morning.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169082]I'm merely pointing out that there are a lot of other things you could be doing that Sunday morning.[/QUOTE] That's beside the point, it's exercising one's beliefs. If you think it's a waste of time, so be it. I don't.

[QUOTE=Archy;19169071]That's agreeable. [B]Hell, this whole argument really isn't contributing to society either...[/B][/QUOTE] I don't think we can really judge this objectively from our current positions.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169056]There are plenty of farmers. You may or may not have noticed, but the nation I live in, the USA, generally has enough food. I believe I can contribute more to society by convincing others to go and stop wasting their Sunday morning, and do something else, paint a painting, write a story, [b]do charity work[/b], something.[/QUOTE] Here you go, I hope this contributes to society: [url]https://secure.crs.org/site/Donation2?df_id=3140&3140.donation=form1&gclid=CJC5sLfL7p4CFRPxDAodPkiTMA[/url]

[QUOTE=Archy;19169093]That's beside the point, it's exercising one's beliefs. If you think it's a waste of time, so be it. I don't.[/QUOTE] Well, what do those beliefs contribute to society?

[QUOTE=Archy;19169093]That's beside the point, it's exercising one's beliefs. If you think it's a waste of time, so be it. I don't.[/QUOTE] He pointed out that it may be a detriment to society, should the belief be faulted and the task unnecessary.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169056]There are plenty of farmers. You may or may not have noticed, but the nation I live in, the USA, generally has enough food. I believe I can contribute more to society by convincing others to go and stop wasting their Sunday morning, and do something else, paint a painting, write a story, do charity work, something.[/QUOTE] actually the opportunity cost is pretty debatable here because you can foster fairly good communal connections in a church aka which means more to you painting a painting or becoming more ingrained in your community personally I hate church communities (they're just not my thing) and I don't think they're needed any longer but you definitely get a stronger connection in a church community than a traditional city/town community

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;19168996] I certainly agree with you here in modern context. But we're not talking about you and I, here, we're talking about humanity in the past. They weren't graced with the technology that's been developed before our births. they believed that religion was testable and repeatable.[/quote] Yes, and that helped religion to grow. But they were just using their fractured understanding of the scientific process to attempt to understand religion, so it still sounds to me that religion is a product of science and not the other way around. [QUOTE=BrickInHead;19168996]I mean shit if you want to get even deeper here (considering you're a smart guy you should know this) science doesn't [B]prove[/B] anything[/quote] Your opinion of me changed rather quickly. Yeah, I know that science doesn't prove anything 100%. But the only thing that can discount a current scientific theory is better science. [QUOTE=BrickInHead;19168996](if you make me explain this I'm just fucking leaving, because you're just proving my point if you don't know the basic tenets of science).[/quote] Wasn't necessary. [QUOTE=BrickInHead;19168996]They didn't have the instruments or the concepts to prove other reasons certain things happened and other models. aka the reason the geocentric model was constructed (influenced quite heavily by both science and by religion)[/QUOTE] Yes, but they were still using the best science they had at the time. The geocentric model came about because their observations seemed to indicate that the Earth is sitting still and everything else is flying around it. I wouldn't say that it was influenced heavily by religion, however. Religion simply permitted it because it didn't go against anything they believed. Better science later showed up to replace it.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169103]Well, what do those beliefs contribute to society?[/QUOTE] A lot. Have you seen how many church sponsored charities, schools and sport events there are? By going to church, one is helping these things happen. Of course, other religious places do this too, but I'm just giving an example. So, even if they're wrong, my beliefs still did something to help, no?

[QUOTE=Archy;19168959]You know what? How. How does believing in a god affect other people in a negative way? How does going to church every Sunday and supporting my views affect other people in a negative way?[/QUOTE] Let me paint you a picture. I live in a suburb in an okay part of Lakewood, a little ways south of LA. Not too far from here, there's a quaint little building run by a wife and husband. It's a school. But not just any school. The man who runs most of it is a kind, older gentleman with receding hair and wide, squarish glasses. He listens to you when you want to talk to him, he does things when he says he'll do them, and he's an overall trustworthy person. His wife is about as old as he is. She has long rusty orange hair and a slight overbite. She's also kind, understanding and trustworthy. But, there's a catch. It's a Christian science school. All of the material is flawed bullshit interpreted from genesis. All the teachers are half retarded middle aged whales who have the same attitude towards curiosity as deer to forest fires. It's a fucking brainwashing camp where parents send their kids to be turned into fucking drones with no inquisitiveness or intelligence. And the proprietors are just as kind as always. It's just that they're sick fucks who rape the minds of little boys and girls. And how does that connect to you in any way? In a very simple one. Your unwavering, dogmatic, naive, vicious fucking belief, that your possible salvation is more important than the effects of your beliefs, is exactly what enables the nice old married couple to rape children's minds. And you support them and their fucked up theology. You're a number in a vast pool and you with your thoughts shift the paradigm, ever so slightly, in their favor. If you don't question, then other people will question less. If you don't think, other people will think less. And that may sound tough, but guess what? Life is fucking tough.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;19169109]actually the opportunity cost is pretty debatable here because you can foster fairly good communal connections in a church aka which means more to you painting a painting or becoming more ingrained in your community personally I hate church communities (they're just not my thing) and I don't think they're needed any longer but you definitely get a stronger connection in a church community than a traditional city/town community[/QUOTE] That delves very readily into the theoretical psychology of the person, and is really not quantifiable unless tested. Church is not the only way to become ingrained in your community, and it is certainly not the best.

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19169100]Here you go, I hope this contributes to society: [url]https://secure.crs.org/site/Donation2?df_id=3140&3140.donation=form1&gclid=CJC5sLfL7p4CFRPxDAodPkiTMA[/url][/QUOTE] What's tragic is that they talk about aids prevention while some slothomly celibate ex-nazi tells the people that condoms will make you go to hell.

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19169008]I don't get it. Violence is never pardonable, and even though it's only words, there have been many many many people posting intelligently and without anger or insults.[/QUOTE] I'm not proud of it but I can see where the anger is coming from.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;19169109]actually the opportunity cost is pretty debatable here because you can foster fairly good communal connections in a church aka which means more to you painting a painting or becoming more ingrained in your community personally I hate church communities (they're just not my thing) and I don't think they're needed any longer but you definitely get a stronger connection in a church community than a traditional city/town community[/QUOTE] Well, painting a painting, is contributing cultural wealth. I'm sure that a lot of artworks have greatly influenced people, so while painting a painting may seem of a lesser thing, it doesn't have to be. And as for the community, you could start up a charity or whatever without church connections.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;19169127]I'm not proud of it but I can see where the anger is coming from.[/QUOTE] I'll agree, you have a right to be angry. But if you want to look intelligent and if you WANT PEOPLE TO STOP HATING YOU, play nice please.

[QUOTE=Kukuzi;19169123]That delves very readily into the theoretical psychology of the person, and is really not quantifiable unless tested. Church is not the only way to become ingrained in your community, and it is certainly not the best.[/QUOTE] actually it's taken entirely from an economic standpoint which are you going to get more "value" out of, fostering a connection with a bigwig in your church like a first selectman that you can use in the future (leading to more opportunities), or painting a painting that you can sell etc

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19169144]I'll agree, you have a right to be angry. But if you want to look intelligent and if you WANT PEOPLE TO STOP HATING YOU, play nice please.[/QUOTE] I've been playing nice.

[QUOTE=Majache;19169121]Let me paint you a picture. I live in a suburb in an okay part of Lakewood, a little ways south of LA. Not too far from here, there's a quaint little building run by a wife and husband. It's a school. But not just any school. The man who runs most of it is a kind, older gentleman with receding hair and wide, squarish glasses. He listens to you when you want to talk to him, he does things when he says he'll do them, and he's an overall trustworthy person. His wife is about as old as he is. She has long rusty orange hair and a slight overbite. She's also kind, understanding and trustworthy. But, there's a catch. It's a Christian science school. All of the material is flawed bullshit interpreted from genesis. All the teachers are half retarded middle aged whales who have the same attitude towards curiosity as deer to forest fires. It's a fucking brainwashing camp where parents send their kids to be turned into fucking drones with no inquisitiveness or intelligence. And the proprietors are just as kind as always. It's just that they're sick fucks who rape the minds of little boys and girls. And how does that connect to you in any way? In a very simple one. Your unwavering, dogmatic, naive, vicious fucking belief, that your possible salvation is more important than the effects of your beliefs, is exactly what enables the nice old married couple to rape children's minds. And you support them and their fucked up theology. You're a number in a vast pool and you with your thoughts shift the paradigm, ever so slightly, in their favor. If you don't question, then other people will question less. If you don't think, other people will think less. And that may sound tough, but guess what? Life is fucking tough.[/QUOTE] Again, you're stereotyping. Christian schools don't brainwash. Where I live, there's no such thing as a christian school. Only catholic ones. And even then, the kids there still bully, play, fight, laugh; they're [B]normal people, with independent views.[/B] There's also public schools here, so you don't have to have a religion. In no way by believing in a god am I a bad person. Perhaps it's about time you realized that.

[QUOTE=Archy;19169118]A lot. Have you seen how many church sponsored charities, schools and sport events there are? By going to church, one is helping these things happen. Of course, other religious places do this too, but I'm just giving an example. So, even if they're wrong, my beliefs still did something to help, no?[/QUOTE] I can't help but think that there's something ironic about doing charities or whatever simply because they are church sponsored. You don't need a church, for all the good that does, you do not see the hidden cost. The cost of how many people have died because of a belief, how many people have gone on to waste their lives in the service of a church, what those people could have accomplished otherwise... you don't see that. So while a church sponsored charity seems great, you can have a charity without a church.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169132]Well, painting a painting, is contributing cultural wealth. I'm sure that a lot of artworks have greatly influenced people, so while painting a painting may seem of a lesser thing, it doesn't have to be. And as for the community, you could start up a charity or whatever without church connections.[/QUOTE] ehhh I don't have the time to factor in externalities

[QUOTE=Zeke129;19169157]I've been playing nice.[/QUOTE] You have been. Many have not been.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;19169150]actually it's taken entirely from an economic standpoint which are you going to get more "value" out of, fostering a connection with a bigwig in your church like a first selectman that you can use in the future (leading to more opportunities), or painting a painting that you can sell etc[/QUOTE] No, it is not. You are basing it off the given emotions of any person who walks into a church. Church is not the only constructive way to pass the time, and is certainly not the most productive.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169163]I can't help but think that there's something ironic about doing charities or whatever simply because they are church sponsored. You don't need a church, for all the good that does, you do not see the hidden cost. The cost of how many people have died because of a belief, how many people have gone on to waste their lives in the service of a church, what those people could have accomplished otherwise... you don't see that. So while a church sponsored charity seems great, you can have a charity without a church.[/QUOTE] quit being a dickface dud some people like having something to believe in

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;19169173]You have been. Many have not been.[/QUOTE] :respek: then

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19169163]I can't help but think that there's something ironic about doing charities or whatever simply because they are church sponsored. You don't need a church, for all the good that does, you do not see the hidden cost. The cost of how many people have died because of a belief, how many people have gone on to waste their lives in the service of a church, what those people could have accomplished otherwise... you don't see that. So while a church sponsored charity seems great, you can have a charity without a church.[/QUOTE] Yes, charities can go without. But a charity can go a long way if it has a sponsor. Since churches tend to sponsor charities, they do tag along nicely.