video of Civilians killed in Baghdad. - General

How should they know? If you were the chopper gunner, you won't know at all too. It's hard to say it's their fault Imagine if the soldier disobeyed the orders.

[QUOTE=BCell;21209214]How should they know? If you were the chopper gunner, you won't know at all too[/QUOTE] If they didn't know, they shouldn't have shot. Shooting fish in a barrel.

[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;21196378]Because they had guns, even an RPG, they could've killed lots of people.[/QUOTE] Are you retarded? This whole thread is retarded! THEY ARE FUCKING CAMERAS!!!! Why would journalists have fucking RPGs.

It's funny how everyone is saying "Why the fuck do they bring their children to a warzone?". Well, maybe because they fucking live there? If bet you guys wouldn't act so cool if where you lived was a warzone. And it's not their fault. EDIT: It's also sad how people in this thread believe the civilians in the car are terrorists.

When he engaged that massive group, I kinda went "Damn." but I understood. As soon as he shot that van I went "what the fuck?" They clearly saw the guys getting out and HELPING him, and in war, no soldiers are allowed to shoot medics. Yeah, they weren't actual medics, but they're doing a medics job and were trying to save a life. That guy that was crawling on the ground wasn't even holding anything before he got shot the first time.

Wow, these guys are just LOOKING for reasons to shoot something. Well done America, you have a place in worlds history. Just wait 30 years until all the facts have come public and everyone has a "well, we were really stupid back then but this will never happen again" additude and people will talk about iraq just like vietnam. Why is america so focused on retelling world war 2 with bad nazis being defeated by good americans over and over again? Propably because every war since then was just a big fucking slaughter in developing coutrys with heavy civilian casulties

[QUOTE=H4ngman;21213547]Wow, these guys are just LOOKING for reasons to shoot something. Well done America, you have a place in worlds history. Just wait 30 years until all the facts have come public and everyone has a "well, we were really stupid back then but this will never happen again" additude and people will talk about iraq just like vietnam. Why is america so focused on retelling world war 2 with bad nazis being defeated by good americans over and over again? Propably because every war since then was just a big fucking slaughter in developing coutrys with heavy civilian casulties[/QUOTE] :siren: BREAKING NEWS :siren: : Soldiers want the other guys dead!

eh snip not relevant

[QUOTE=Doctor-Mask;21189721]"Come on, let us shoot!" I don't get it, why would they want to take a life?[/QUOTE] because they were about to take the lives of others. who knows how many! Fuck them anyway. the desert sucks

[QUOTE=SeamanStaines;21190271]They were carrying shopping bags, and the journalists were carrying cameras. Apparently a bag is an AK and a camera is an RPG now.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure they found AKs at the scene when they arrived afterwards. The RPG was actually just a camera but still, those journalists were hanging out with armed insurgents without notifying the military that they were there. That's a fucking retarded idea.

That was awesome. Better the bad guys than friendly forces. And quit bitching about them having fun or whatever. It's their job. I've worked with and met abunch of guys that do this shit, they aren't mentally messed up or "sick". When it comes to real shit like this, they're there to kick ass. And journalists my ass. Yeah, people with camera tripods usually crouch at the corner of buildings especially when when they have the vantage point on our tanks coming. And it's so blatantly obvious they were carrying AKs. Typical insurgents always have a couple of camera guys with them for propaganda videos. And purposely having kids around isn't surprising. Easy back up plan for if they get their ass pounded by the military. Because then they can say, "Wait, we had journalists and kids with us." They'll use their own kids as dummies in a heartbeat if it means killing coalition forces or making coalition forces look bad. It's easy for people that haven't personally experienced shit like this to be so fucking ignorant. Armchair activists, big surprise.

[QUOTE=MiKeV;21244212]That was awesome. Better the bad guys than friendly forces. And quit bitching about them having fun or whatever. It's their job. I've worked with and met abunch of guys that do this shit, they aren't mentally messed up or "sick". When it comes to real shit like this, they're there to kick ass. And journalists my ass. [/QUOTE] I understand that you yourself have gone to war, but for christ's sake, saying that it is just their job is missing the point. This gunner is taking pleasure from murdering these people and begging his officer to continue doing it. And begging is the appropriate word, watch the video. War is not about kicking ass, to degrade it to terms you would use in a video game is horrific. These are innocent people dying, they are real people. They were journalists. And this is not a topic for debate, these two journalists died there. Its not like they just disappeared and now the video is claiming they died in this incident. Also, can't you recognize the people from the pictures the video above me supplied, to that of the people in the video? Whether or not they were carrying weapons is debatable, but to me it looked pretty clear they were cameras. The large thick lenses that journalists often use COULD be mistaken for weapons, especially by someone who has limited visibility, scared and is eager to kill people. He got authority to fire very quickly, especially compared to many other apache clips I have viewed. It was unprofessional, saying it was his job does not justify his actions. Saying that "well its just war" doesn't justify them either, the point is that war is horrible and we should question why we continue to fight them vigourously. Maybe people don't realise the impact of this video, you are watching real people being killed on youtube. People should learn from these incidents, not just shrug them off and say "well thats how it works", its very easy to do that when your sitting safe in your homes miles away from war.

It looked like a camera and it [I]was [/I]a camera. The fat guy with the computer bag didn't look like a combatant to me either, for that matter. I don't really know what to make of this.

[QUOTE=combine487;21244368] saying that it is just their job is missing the point. [/QUOTE] lol, How is that missing the point? It IS his job. Oh, so on a deployment, we're supposed to just play Scrabble? [QUOTE=combine487;21244368] War is not about kicking ass [/QUOTE] Yes it is. And chewing bubblegum. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]These are innocent people dying, they are real people. They were journalists. And this is not a topic for debate, these two journalists died there.[/QUOTE] lol, They weren't journalists. You don't think outside of the box. Like you said yourself, you live miles away from war, and have never experienced it. Insurgents will play any role to gain advantage. When I was in Iraq they would get their hands on all types of uniforms, act as that person, make their way into our chow hall and blow themselves up. They'll play journalists too, just in case, if they die, their buddies can use the "omg he was a non-combatant, wtf America" excuse. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]Whether or not they were carrying weapons is debatable [/QUOTE] lol, Nah, it was pretty clear they were carrying weapons. They always can weapons nonchalantly. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]He got authority to fire very quickly [/QUOTE] Haha, so? Control centers need to be fast decision makers. If someone's in a position where they're asking for permission to engage, that's not the time to sit and think and have the Jeopardy theme playing in the background. These people know their job so if they hear what's going on and reasoning, they give the order. Not hard. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]It was unprofessional, saying it was his job does not justify his actions. [/QUOTE] LOL, wtf? That's the whole point! It's because it IS his job. If it WASN'T his job, THEN you'd have a point, lmfao. Yeah, it's so unprofessional of him doing what he's supposed to do in a deployed environment. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]Saying that "well its just war" doesn't justify them either [/QUOTE] Yeah it does. Again, if it wasn't WAR, you'd have a point. You're really slapping yourself with your own words now. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]Maybe people don't realise the impact of this video, you are watching real people being killed on youtube. [/QUOTE] Yeah, maybe people like you. Try seeing people die in person, not on YouTube. [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]People should learn from these incidents, not just shrug them off and say "well thats how it works", its very easy to do that when your sitting safe in your homes miles away from war.[/QUOTE] Yep, again, people like you. It is how it works. It's easy for you to think it's not because you know why: [QUOTE=combine487;21244368]its very easy to do that when your sitting safe in your homes miles away from war.[/QUOTE] You couldn't have said it better yourself. Well, maybe typing "you're" instead of "your". But either way, good job.

My friend was telling me about this, glad I found it.

[QUOTE=MiKeV;21244212]That was awesome. Better the bad guys than friendly forces. And quit bitching about them having fun or whatever. It's their job. I've worked with and met abunch of guys that do this shit, they aren't mentally messed up or "sick". When it comes to real shit like this, they're there to kick ass. And journalists my ass. Yeah, people with camera tripods usually crouch at the corner of buildings especially when when they have the vantage point on our tanks coming. And it's so blatantly obvious they were carrying AKs. Typical insurgents always have a couple of camera guys with them for propaganda videos. And purposely having kids around isn't surprising. Easy back up plan for if they get their ass pounded by the military. Because then they can say, "Wait, we had journalists and kids with us." They'll use their own kids as dummies in a heartbeat if it means killing coalition forces or making coalition forces look bad. It's easy for people that haven't personally experienced shit like this to be so fucking ignorant. Armchair activists, big surprise.[/QUOTE] You're one of those inhuman stereotypical Americans, aren't you?

The part with the Van was unjustified. If the driver had got out and run over to pick up weapons, it might be understandable, but the van's occupants were picking up a wounded man and trying to help him.

I don't know if anyone did this already, but I can't see any "weapons" so please provide a screenshot where you see weapons, which means the american soldiers were "under threat".

Incidentally, the fact that it's DEBATABLE that they were carrying guns means that they shouldn't have opened fire. I did not see what was a clearly defined gun at any stage in that video. There were a few "possibly a weapon" sightings, but it wasn't clear. I'm not denying that it could have been insurgents using a child as cover and with a journalist with a camera to record some footage for propaganda videos, but it was not at all clear. And then when they opened fire on a van... I appreciate that if this was world war 2, American soldiers would have shot a nazi trying to help the wound- OH WAIT NO THEY WOULDN'T, since it is a war crime to shoot an unarmed medic combatant intentionally. If there had been a medic with them, it would be collateral, but since they opened fire on the van that they didn't have any proof of there being weapons inside... And people wonder why insurgents hate America. The problem is that America is fighting against a Guerrilla army. For every insurgent they kill, a civilian dies, or sees his friends and family die, starts to hate America, and signs up to fight them to get revenge. In fighting like this, all the Americans are doing is provoking further conflict. For every person they kill, they inspire another to take his place. Oh, and with the "It's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle" argument, there's a few possible reasons for that. A:) Innocent journalists were bringing children with them in a non-combat area and were opened fire on - BAD B:) Insurgent troops were bringing children with them in a non-combat area and were opened fire on - BAD The point is, it's a non combat area. Before the Americans started opening fire, there was no evidence of armed conflict. For all we know, it could have been some kids asking a Journalist, or even an armed insurgent about something. Oh, and carrying an AK isn't illegal in this country, as it isn't illegal to carry a weapon in most countries. Oh, and to top it all off, the Army's blatant lying to the press reeks of deceit. "We did everything we could to help them" - After they sent them to a local hospital rather than treating them at the army base. "I don't know how the children were hurt" - After the gunner told the ground troops that they opened fire on them. "There were too many bodies and didn't want to drive over them." - After they quite clearly drive over several bodies, and dismembered pieces of flesh and bone.

they looked like weapons

[QUOTE=Carne;21246855]You're one of those inhuman stereotypical Americans, aren't you?[/QUOTE] Yup.

Why do they want to kill more people? They need help..

[QUOTE=MiKeV;21246590] Yeah, maybe people like you. Try seeing people die in person, not on YouTube. [/QUOTE] What? There is a lot to respond to from what you said but this I don't understand. Are you saying that I can't have an emotional response to watching real people being slaughtered on youtube, and that I should try and do it first hand? I'm sorry you're right, I have no understanding of the situation at all until I experience it up close, don't criticise until you've been in that exact position right? No. You are attacking me for not thinking outside the box, when it is you who has to do it. You have walked away from your experience of war with the warped perspective that any criticism placed upon it by people who haven't served in it themselves is worthless. You are the one who has no emotional connection to what is obviously a group of civilians being killed. They WERE journalists, this isn't debatable, I have said this multiple times. The bodies were confirmed, watch the video a few posts above, this isn't rocket science. Civilians were killed. Even if they were insurgents, the speed in which the apache gunner confirmed they were so was ridiculous. On close inspection, they were definently carrying cameras with large lens attachments. I can forgive the gunner for not having the time to really look at it closely, but he seemed to make the judgement as soon as he saw they were carrying large black objects on their backs. Also, the behaviour of the people is odd for insurgents. Look at the video again, they are just meeting up and talking, seriously if this is the kind of behaviour the military identifies as insurgents I'm suprised they don't just shoot hellfires into marketplaces. I know that insurgents act like civilians, but here's a thought, maybe they were acting like civilians was because they WERE civilians. The gunner's behaviour was scary, like I said before. He is pleading to shoot these people, and seemed to take enormous relish in watching the man crawl along the floor, wishing him to pick up a weapon so he could shoot him. He begged to fire on the van which had to children in it (which were visible) and he was laughing at the dead bodies that the humvees ran over. That is sadism if I have ever seen it, and if thats "just his job", then that job deserves no respect at all. And if you think that war is about kicking ass and enjoying it, you indeed have a monstrously warped perspective of the horrors of war. I don't think the civilians that were just murdered are enjoying it as much as the maniac in the helicopter.

[QUOTE=MiKeV;21247521]Yup.[/QUOTE] You also need help. They're acting like if it's a game. "OH LOOK, MORE PEOPLE! WHY CAN'T THEY DO SOMETHING SUCPICIOUS LIKE TRYING TO HELP WOUNDED FRIENDS SO I CAN SHOOT THEM!" This is sadism, and if that's a part of the job...

[QUOTE=paul simon;21247624]You also need help.[/QUOTE] Facepunch opinions. lol

MikeV has a point but at the end of the video, they watch 2 armed insurgences go into a building, and relay that they saw 6. when did 2=6? or am i missing the other 4 armed insurgences entering the building. Also I saw ak47s and a RPG, I don't know what other people saw when they say they saw cameras, even if they had cameras, DON'T point it at tanks in a combat zone, simple as that. also another morale of the story, STOP RUNNING TOWARDS the war, who the fuck is driving in a area thats under fire with there kids to save someone, who, thinks like that? "oh that guy needs help! come on everyone in the car, you too little jimmy"

It's war, both sides of the issue are wrong. Yes, they were cameras, no, the soldiers didn't know that. How do people expect soldiers to respond to a previously confirmed hostile carrying a previously confirmed weapon? Sure the confirmations were wrong, but soldiers are people too. Conclusion: the soldiers weren't evil or twisted by any definition at all, just mistaken, might sound dismissing but that's what it was. A very sad misunderstanding.

[QUOTE=paul simon;21247624]You also need help. They're acting like if it's a game. "OH LOOK, MORE PEOPLE! WHY CAN'T THEY DO SOMETHING SUCPICIOUS LIKE TRYING TO HELP WOUNDED FRIENDS SO I CAN SHOOT THEM!" This is sadism, and if that's a part of the job...[/QUOTE] More like "cmon, let's drive ho- HOLY SHIT EXPLOSION. LOOK THERE'S AN INJURED GUY! WE NEED TO HELP HIM! THEY WON'T FIRE ON US, WE'RE NON-COMBATA-" *Explosion*

[QUOTE=Doctor-Mask;21189721]"Come on, let us shoot!" I don't get it, why would they want to take a life?[/QUOTE] It's like FPS for them