What I wanted Doom 4 to be - General

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/j7TrU0M.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Nvbvkwb.png[/IMG] Sound pack + color correction could get you a bit closer to a more original Doom'ish game.

Well if they didn't want criticism they shouldn't have showed what they had in E3. What else was the point. If it had received universal acclaim no one would be going "No no no pick up your jaws and keep them in place, the game isn't out yet". We are free to rip whatever the devs show us to shreds just as they are free to listen to us, to the people who like the way it is now or no one in particular. I didn't like the E3 video. For the record I haven't played Doom 3 either. I don't care if it was for the demo or whatever, I do not like associating slowness with Doom. Whether it is movement speed, firing speed or useless execution animations. I want to be able to glide over the floor, strafe, shoot almost constantly and jump ridiculously around. Obviously the game doesn't have to pander to my needs and wants but I do not have to just accept what we have been served. The video is almost like what I would want, but I wouldn't even care for the (sped up) melee attacks or even the very brief landing animation after a jump.

Replacing perfectly fine audio with classic Doom's audio is stupid, it just shows that there are people who won't be happy unless they get a total replica of the first two games.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;48097110]Replacing perfectly fine audio with classic Doom's audio is stupid, it just shows that there are people who won't be happy unless they get a total replica of the first two games.[/QUOTE] Well honestly, E1M1 - At Doom's Gate is probably the most recognizable music piece of the entire franchise so i never got why they add it in 3 and why not make the trailer 10x more awesome by adding a new version of it in Doom 4? It would add at least something from the old doom. Edit: As pointed below they did the song.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;48097143]Well honestly, E1M1 - At Doom's Gate is probably the most recognizable music piece of the entire franchise so i never got why they add it in 3 and why not make the trailer 10x more awesome by adding a new version of it in Doom 4? It would add at least something from the old doom.[/QUOTE] They did, though. [video=youtube;NteAPGprDJk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteAPGprDJk[/video]

[QUOTE=GREN EYGS N HAM;48094972]I agree completely. Why did mainstream fps games have to get so sluggish.[/QUOTE]You know that "saying" that goes something like "gamers have reaction time of a fighter jet pilot", while exaggerated, it's true to a degree. Not everyone can handle fast paced action like that. Since games are pretty much mainstream now and their production fees are rising, end goal is to cover as many people as possible. Combine that with a controller and having fast paced gameplay is a very risky choice for a big studio that wants to profit.

The nitpick is hilarious [editline]1st July 2015[/editline] Also this video is so fucking ststupid if you actually go back and watch doom gameplay the shotgun fires just as slow as the doom 4 one and no one is flying around that fast. Get your heads out of your asses

[QUOTE=darth-veger;48097046][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/j7TrU0M.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Nvbvkwb.png[/IMG] Sound pack + color correction could get you a bit closer to a more original Doom'ish game.[/QUOTE] Although this is a bit too garish, I do think they need to add more contrast to make the enemies and setting really pop.

[QUOTE=Corndog Ninja;48097485]Although this is a bit too garish, I do think they need to add more contrast to make the enemies and setting really pop.[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/itDq04j.png[/t]

Beth FPS Cycle since wolfenstien : 1) Game is unveiled, looks horrible. if theres a showfloor demo, it is also horrible. 2) Game goes silent for a few months as the devs fix it up 3) Game gets another trailer and more gameplay impressions from people, looks way too good 4) Game released, goty, etc. hoping the cycle isnt broken.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;48097046][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/j7TrU0M.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Nvbvkwb.png[/IMG] Sound pack + color correction could get you a bit closer to a more original Doom'ish game.[/QUOTE] because Doom was a very colorful game and demons and Hell are supposed to be as colorful as the rainbow :rolleyes:

DOOM 1/2: Fast paced, always on the run style gameplay DOOM 3: Horror based, slow paced FPS with most of the work put into the environment/atmosphere DOOM 4: DOOM and DOOM 3 bastard child, adopted and trained by Brutal Doom

[QUOTE=kweh;48097619]because Doom was a very colorful game and demons and Hell are supposed to be as colorful as the rainbow :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] I don't remember Doom being completely brown either.

[QUOTE=FullofCunts;48097620]DOOM 1/2: Fast paced, always on the run style gameplay DOOM 3: Horror based, slow paced FPS with most of the work put into the environment/atmosphere DOOM 4: DOOM and DOOM 3 bastard child, adopted and trained by Brutal Doom[/QUOTE] Do we really need the new Doom to be the exact same thing as the old ones? Also, as said, Doom 3 actually could be played fast. [editline]1st July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=darth-veger;48097636]I don't remember Doom being completely brown either.[/QUOTE] Well then that sounds like you're nitpicking a particular spot, because I remember quite well the demo not being "completely brown" Plus, its about 6 minutes or something of gameplay. Who's to say it will be completely brown lol

[QUOTE=kweh;48097637]Do we really need the new Doom to be the exact same thing as the old ones? Also, as said, Doom 3 actually could be played fast. [editline]1st July 2015[/editline] Well then that sounds like you're nitpicking a particular spot, because I remember quite well the demo not being "completely brown" Plus, its about 6 minutes or something of gameplay. Who's to say it will be completely brown lol[/QUOTE] No, what we (i) want is what they've done so far, but faster. It feels too slow, which results in boredom to flow in pretty quickly

[QUOTE=FullofCunts;48097663]No, what we (i) want is what they've done so far, but faster. It feels too slow, which results in boredom to flow in pretty quickly[/QUOTE] Well, it should be faster if you play it, since you wont be staring at the graphics and will be playing faster...

Did I just catch a wolfenstein 3d nazi saying "Mein Leben!" at 2:26?

Well on the bright side, Shadow Warrior 2 is coming out, so if Doom is a blunder, we still got that.

What people don't realize about doom is that it's not just another FPS game there's something pure and extremely intelligent about it's game design. There's a lot more depth to the game mechanics than what appears immediately. Some maps I play almost feel like puzzles of managing ammo and health while using your skill in dodging and aiming as well as fast paced intuition. This is why I think like things like brutal doom and Doom 4 miss the point completely, it's not just all about violence and shooting things. There's stuff in between the lines so to speak that you may not be able to realize right away but you automatically know it's a game that stands above most.

[QUOTE=BenJammin';48097810]What people don't realize about doom is that it's not just another FPS game there's something pure and extremely intelligent about it's game design. There's a lot more depth to the game mechanics than what appears immediately. Some maps I play almost feel like puzzles of managing ammo and health while using your skill in dodging and aiming as well as fast paced intuition.[/QUOTE]You're giving Doom a bit too much credit

I don't get why people say that the classic dooms are all about run and gun. I never played them like that and I've played through 1, 2 and most of ultimate as well as some of doom 64. I mean, from the footage of D4, it kinda looks like a similar pace to mine in the original dooms albeit a little slower.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48097853]You're giving Doom a bit too much credit[/QUOTE] Nope. Play a map like E4M2 or something in Ultimate Doom. The mechanics in place allows for mappers to be creative in which how players use their intuition and trial and error. Doom to me always feels like I am battling the mappers creativity and mind rather than an arbitrary amount of demons. And when I watch different people play different maps I notice how some players have their own style. Some save ammo for later and come back and get it for a tough fight, some use corners more, some use a lot of monster in-fighting etc. It's just one of those games you know. It's bigger than what it appears to be at a glance of maybe 7 hours or so. You play more than 200 hours and you start to realize why it remains to be fresh and still modded on after all these years. The doom engine is just such a baseline set of programming for so many more bigger things. So many other FPS games outline a specific path for the player not just through mapping but through what tools it presents for you to over come obstacles, it's mechanics are extremely constrictive compared to a game like doom. FPS games have become more about "the experience" rather than an open ended sort of thing where many variables are possible from a mapping standpoint and still work within the games mechanics. The more complicated a FPS game gets, the hard it is to organize it into a smooth experience, when Doom is something that is practically always polished and fun as long as the mapper isn't being a retard or trolling.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;48095274]like using a body as a pseudo-skateboard, making you harder to hit and vice versa[/QUOTE] Just make it possible to lift up bodies with one hand and shoot with the other, and then crack the thing's neck or throw it somewhere. If you picked up Berserk, then you get more brutal animations like crushing the enemy's head in your hand instead of cracking its neck, the ability to smash its body against a wall or the floor until it dies, etc. Would also mean you could pick up a revenant and use its shoulder cannons yourself. [editline]2nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Wii60;48097562]Beth FPS Cycle since wolfenstien : 1) Game is unveiled, looks horrible. if theres a showfloor demo, it is also horrible. 2) Game goes silent for a few months as the devs fix it up 3) Game gets another trailer and more gameplay impressions from people, looks way too good 4) Game released, goty, etc. hoping the cycle isnt broken.[/QUOTE] Problem is, we [I]already[/I] got the "game goes silent" thing - twice in fact, once with the leaked doom 4 footage that looked like a horrible resistance/call of duty rip off and another time with the gameplay demo that was only showed behind closed doors and was for some reason never shown to anyone else ever. Doom has been stuck in development hell (no pun intended) for a really long time and due to outright horrible management the game was rebooted, reworked from scratch and otherwise severely cut down a lot of times until Bethesda/Zenimax stepped in, fired the management and replaced it with a competent team. When a game goes through that much shit, it's not a good sign at all.

[QUOTE=BenJammin';48097810]What people don't realize about doom is that it's not just another FPS game there's something pure and extremely intelligent about it's game design. There's a lot more depth to the game mechanics than what appears immediately. Some maps I play almost feel like puzzles of managing ammo and health while using your skill in dodging and aiming as well as fast paced intuition. This is why I think like things like brutal doom and Doom 4 miss the point completely, it's not just all about violence and shooting things. There's stuff in between the lines so to speak that you may not be able to realize right away but you automatically know it's a game that stands above most.[/QUOTE] Uhm... Doom 3 sort of does this....

I dunno if it's just me, but I don't think Doom is as fast as everyone remembers. Thinking back to the first time playing it or anyone playing it back then it was more like a horror game than a hell yeah time to chew ass game. It's still quick compared to certain games, but it's not as fast as Quake or Unreal either. That being said the new demo did look like it didn't know what it was trying to appeal to. You get the fanservicey bit but it still feels like it's calling to the mainstream Destiny-style crowd. [QUOTE=GREN EYGS N HAM;48094972]I agree completely. Why did mainstream fps games have to get so sluggish.[/QUOTE] Also I'm surprised no one has answered this question but imo it's consoles. Don't get me wrong. I love Halo, but that seems to be a sort of turning point in between arena shooters and call of duties. Halo begat the 'run and gun' genre. Imagine playing Quake on thumbsticks.

Anyone who says Doom is hyper-speed fast paced should download Chocolate Doom and play without mouse controls. It's a much slower and creepier game when you don't have mouselook like most people who played it back when it was new had. [editline]1st July 2015[/editline] You can still sprint around at light speed, but you'll get torn to shreds really fast on anything higher then "Hey, Not Too Rough" (The second difficulty level, basically Easy mode).

[QUOTE=BenJammin';48097916]Nope. Play a map like E4M2 or something in Ultimate Doom. The mechanics in place allows for mappers to be creative in which how players use their intuition and trial and error. Doom to me always feels like I am battling the mappers creativity and mind rather than an arbitrary amount of demons. And when I watch different people play different maps I notice how some players have their own style. Some save ammo for later and come back and get it for a tough fight, some use corners more, some use a lot of monster in-fighting etc. It's just one of those games you know. It's bigger than what it appears to be at a glance of maybe 7 hours or so. You play more than 200 hours and you start to realize why it remains to be fresh and still modded on after all these years. The doom engine is just such a baseline set of programming for so many more bigger things. So many other FPS games outline a specific path for the player not just through mapping but through what tools it presents for you to over come obstacles, it's mechanics are extremely constrictive compared to a game like doom. FPS games have become more about "the experience" rather than an open ended sort of thing where many variables are possible from a mapping standpoint and still work within the games mechanics. The more complicated a FPS game gets, the hard it is to organize it into a smooth experience, when Doom is something that is practically always polished and fun as long as the mapper isn't being a retard or trolling.[/QUOTE] That just means you're playing the wrong FPS games, and really are giving way too much credit to Doom. The whole part about saving up ammo for example, is something I imagine lots of people do in games that give you more than one kind of weapon. I've been doing that for years, in any game that does it, for example, saving the BFG and the rockets for bosses, if I want an easy clean fight. Corners have been used for a while now in multiplayer games because of how you can ambush people right as they go through. Hell, Doom 3 has that, since demons are kind of pretty fucking dumb and chase after you for a fight. Honestly, one of the only games that actually delivered more variables, was FEAR. The enemy AI, baring a few shitty moves, will actually give you a challenge, lying in wait, rushing you, flushing you out, peek around corners, retreat, and even topple objects to use them as cover. There even are enemies that stealth their way through to you for a couple of hits, and then stealth away from you. Honestly, Doom is kind of pretty simple. [editline]2nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister_Jack;48098015]Also I'm surprised no one has answered this question but imo it's consoles. Don't get me wrong. I love Halo, but that seems to be a sort of turning point in between arena shooters and call of duties. Halo begat the 'run and gun' genre. Imagine playing Quake on thumbsticks.[/QUOTE] Remember how some dev wanted to do cross platform multiplayer on some FPS, ran the experiment, and then called it all off when he saw that gamepad players (console) got decimated by keyboard and mouse PC players? Theres also the thing with aim assist in consoles, to help out. Still, I have no idea how can anyone play an FPS game like BF3 on a console. It's hard as fuck.

[QUOTE=kweh;48098066] Honestly, one of the only games that actually delivered more variables, was FEAR. The enemy AI, baring a few shitty moves, will actually give you a challenge, lying in wait, rushing you, flushing you out, peek around corners, retreat, and even topple objects to use them as cover. There even are enemies that stealth their way through to you for a couple of hits, and then stealth away from you.[/QUOTE] Honestly no one will ever know how sad I am that the F.E.A.R. formula was never moved forward. There really is no other game like it in how interactive the environments are and how the AI uses it. It does what it does with so much finesse and going back for a playthrough right now is the best time ever if you want to see how much the market truly has stagnated. That game came out a whole decade ago. It still looks good and it's so much fun to play. I'm tempted to say no FPS has bested its interpretation of shooting since, but there are games like Battlefield, Red Orchestra 2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and ARMA that have great shooting mechanics. Still it took years and F.E.A.R.'s unique style is hard to touch. Another opinion of mine, Killing Floor 2 looks/feels more Doom than this new Doom.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;48097636]I don't remember Doom being completely brown either.[/QUOTE] From what I remember, Doom 2 in particular was a very brown/bland looking game, despite that it added all of the greatest stuff to the franchise.

[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;48098015]I dunno if it's just me, but I don't think Doom is as fast as everyone remembers. Thinking back to the first time playing it or anyone playing it back then it was more like a horror game than a hell yeah time to chew ass game. It's still quick compared to certain games, but it's not as fast as Quake or Unreal either. [/QUOTE] You do [I]move[/I] very fast (Doomguy runs at about 57 mph) but the gameplay is more thoughtful - exploration is necessary to find keycards, backtracking is often necessary, and finding hidden areas is rewarded with bonus items.