Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51955392]Precisely. GG gave the alt-right an opening to expose their communities to pissed off gamers looking for answers. The ultimate in easy-mode for cult-like ideology. Nobody actively hunted these dudes down because they followed GG, but by following GG they had a reasonable chance of coming across these communities after The Miloing.[/QUOTE] That was what I was afraid of from the beginning. One side more or less kept their idiots, while the other got a whole lot of new ones.

[QUOTE=jonu67;51955379]I defended him before because he just seemed a little ignorant of certain aspects but otherwise seemed like he had ok opinions, but this pretty much proves I was wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt. :disappoint:[/QUOTE] Giving someone the benefit of the doubt isn't wrong. But maybe it would behoove you to be a bit more open to the idea that someone actually might hold these views in the future.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51955260]I wish I could work out more as to [I]why[/I] it was GG. Why not any other movement? Why that one specific thing wherein a bunch of us nerds finally realised "hey that's weird" about a otherwise innocuous thing in gaming. Nobody in the alt-right until that point gave a fuck about interactive media, particularly video games. It was "beta cuck" stuff. Milo changed that. He found them a target and they followed in perfect lock-step.[/QUOTE] Probably because it was the first group who actually stood up against the subversion of their hobby and the mass shaming by the media. And to be honest, it ran way deeper than anyone expected at the start, even national newspapers here ran small articles about ''those evil misogynist gamergaters''. While those articles were clearly from some American newspaper which were thrown through Google Translate, given what glaring grammatical mistakes were in that article. No wonder that a lot of people who followed that scandal became really mistrusting of the media after that. Man, I still remember how Julian Assange early on during Gamergate said that corruption in games journalism was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of media corruption and cronyism. Turned out that he wasn't kidding a single bit about that.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51955316]You could really write a [B]very[/B] long thesis of the influence of gamergate.[/QUOTE] The Pvt. Martin Chronicles

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51955392]Precisely. GG gave the alt-right an opening to expose their communities to pissed off gamers looking for answers. The ultimate in easy-mode for cult-like ideology. Nobody actively hunted these dudes down because they followed GG, but by following GG they had a reasonable chance of coming across these communities after The Miloing.[/QUOTE] pretty much this, a bunch of young people who felt upset and disenfranchised found someone that they felt like spoke to them and began to follow him to the proverbial ends of the earth and spread out from there.

[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;51955362]i was being sarcastic by embellishing the cheering on of him losing subscribers. i don't want him to actually lose all his subscribers it was a shitty lapse in judgment on my part, sorry[/QUOTE] It's all cool. I just get fired about about people being so quick to rip Jon apart. Guy has a hard time forming opinions of his own so he takes them from other sources. I don't think he's a bad guy, far from it, but some of his political ideals are a bit concerning. As long as it doesn't affect his work I'm staying subscribed to him.

[QUOTE=Jordax;51955406]Man, I still remember how Julian Assange early on during Gamergate said that corruption in games journalism was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of media corruption and cronyism. Turned out that he wasn't kidding a single bit about that.[/QUOTE] Pfffft. Fuck Assange. The dude is a collosal piece of shit. He's been doing anything and everything he can for attention for so long now that it's impossible to take anything he says at face value. The whole "corruption and crony-ism" thing is particularly rich considering his project helped one of the most corrupt "politicians" on the planet get the presidency via some selective "leaking". The "corruption" in video games journalism was nowhere near as far reaching as people made it out to be, until people made a fucking scene about it. Nobody in the mainstream knew (or really even now cares about) people like Sarkesian. If nobody had blown up over it and instead calmly worked out how to combat it, she'd still be a fucking nobody with a Twitter account and a drinking problem.

[QUOTE=Jordax;51955406]Probably because it was the first group who actually stood up against the subversion of their hobby and the mass shaming by the media. And to be honest, it ran way deeper than anyone expected at the start, even national newspapers here ran small articles about ''those evil misogynist gamergaters''. While those articles were clearly from some American newspaper which were thrown through Google Translate, given what glaring grammatical mistakes were in that article. No wonder that a lot of people who followed that scandal became really mistrusting of the media after that. Man, I still remember how Julian Assange early on during Gamergate said that corruption in games journalism was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of media corruption and cronyism. Turned out that he wasn't kidding a single bit about that.[/QUOTE] that's like saying the skinflint shopkeep down the street who charges too much for bread is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of corporate exploitation of the poor like how could you possibly think those two things are related

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51955196]Also correct me if I'm somehow horribly mistaken but it seems to me that the extreme left/sjw's don't have nearly the same amount of actual influence and power in governing bodies and media compared to the extreme right/alt-right.[/QUOTE] Anita and Zoe Quinn made it to the UN with their bullshit

[QUOTE=Corndog Ninja;51955192]I still recall back in the day when Jon left Game Grumps everyone assumed that Arin was the bad egg in the scenario and drove off Jon, but as the years go on people keep reappraising that... [i]🤔[/i][/QUOTE] I still think it was just because of creative differences and they were never telling anyone why just to fuck with people. After all, GG talk about Jon all the time and Arin even appeared on the last Star Wars vidya review.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;51955446]Anita and Zoe Quinn made it to the UN with their bullshit[/QUOTE] Sure, but they achieved nothing

The alt right's (and other similar groups) main targets are lonely, disenfranchised, easily impressionable people who want answers/a solution to their problems. They try to be friends with these people to lure them in and after their targets become attatched, THEN they start ranting about how Jews (and other minorities) control everything because by then their recruits will be willing to listen to their madness. In other words, the alt-right and similar groups gain members and by proxy power by convincing people that minorities and the left wing in general are violent hypocrites.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51955383]gg has sweet fa to do with the "far left" (who are busy asking for the redistribution of wealth and the return of the ownership of the means of production to the proletariat) and everything to do with opportunists who realised they can make some good cash under the guise of progressive ideals. Notice how they only really started getting aggressive with their push back once people attacked their advertising deals? Before that it was mostly just whining on Twitter and being dicks. Communities "censoring" and joining in is just a part of manipulation. Do not confuse the genuine far left with loonies on the Internet who manipulate others for income.[/QUOTE] Far left is definitely not the right descriptor for those people, but I don't think they should be disqualified from any political affiliation simply for being insincere. We would be disqualifying a lot of politicians if we go by that metric. Like it or not, they pushed leftist ideals. Regressive left maybe, buy left wing none the less and to make matters worse there were more genuine left wing folks who fell for their act. This creates a very easy to exploit narrative. Not that this justifies the recent alt right wing swing. Even if the attitudes pushed by such publications were common place in actual government, and by and large they aren't, Trump and Breitbart and some of the shit coming out of fucking Jontron of all people's mouth would be a massive fuckoff kneejerk reaction. If recent years have accomplished anything for me, it was putting shit like GG into perspective.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51955431]The "corruption" in video games journalism was nowhere near as far reaching as people made it out to be, until people made a fucking scene about it. Nobody in the mainstream knew (or really even now cares about) people like Sarkesian. If nobody had blown up over it and instead calmly worked out how to combat it, she'd still be a fucking nobody with a Twitter account and a drinking problem.[/QUOTE] gamergate is a perfect microcosm in the modern age of what having a movement with directionless, uncoordinated rage can accomplish and become. when people actually were tactical, like going after advertisers, they actually had a measurable effect and accomplished something. when it was just meaningless grumbling and bitching about shit when surrounded by people who agreed with them, which is what it had throughout but finally crumbled into only being that, it turned into something it shouldn't have been and those who were level-headed jumped out and those who stayed grew more extreme

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51955385][...] when i was involved, i exclusively kept to facepunch with it which honestly was the best way. i distrusted milo from the beginning and knew he was just using GG for his own means.[/QUOTE] Depending on where you look on Twitter it's sane there too, but that's because there are a lot of culturally liberal left-wingers who were/are part of the GG community on there. I think 'GG' and 'alt-right' have pretty much split at this point on Twitter, with 'alt-right' echo-chambering up and spewing intolerant politics all the time while what's left of GG mostly cares about games (and integrity when it becomes an issue, which it doesn't a lot at this point) and laughs about stupid stuff people who intolerantly try to impose their ideals on the genre as a whole do.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;51955446]Anita and Zoe Quinn made it to the UN with their bullshit[/QUOTE] Online harrassment is bullshit?

I really think Jon just needs to take a nice break from the internet for a bit and think about what he's said. I understand that things from the far-left can be really nerve-racking at times but I don't think that means you have to go jump all the way to the far-right. There's much better ways to go about that

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51955510]Online harrassment is bullshit?[/QUOTE] I mean yeah, in a way, kinda? This is sort of a whole other discussion in and of itself though.

[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;51955284]let's hope he loses all of them /s[/QUOTE] I hope anyone that has a serious issue with what he's saying unsubscribes from him. I just don't see how I can laugh along with this dude when he has such vile views.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51955510]Online harrassment is bullshit?[/QUOTE] It's not, [I]but[/I] that's not what they in practice work against, [I]at all[/I]. [editline]edit[/editline] I think when someone says 'bullshit' about them, it's usually along the lines of them being terrible to others while pretending it's the other way around.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51955196]Also correct me if I'm somehow horribly mistaken but it seems to me that the extreme left/sjw's don't have nearly the same amount of actual influence and power in governing bodies and media compared to the extreme right/alt-right.[/QUOTE] Maybe not in the US but I think they got a decent amount of power here in Sweden. And at the same time, extreme right influence is minimal in mainstream politics and media.

honestly gamergate is why i am wary of the direction some more far-left groups are going. some are doing good and actually organizing and using tactics but there's a lot of people who just seem angry who i am afraid just need a catalyst to become far more extreme. gamergate in itself was fairly safe from becoming something dangerous because it was about something that, on a relative scale, was pretty fucking unimportant. when it comes to politics, which matters greatly, and people begin to feel they are truly in danger, they're far more likely to take extreme action. some bad shit is brewing and i think it would just take a figure like milo for those people for shit to come to a boil. i saw what happened with gamergate and it can easily happen again. i follow a good number of far-left people on twitter, and yeah i know how "people on twitter" sounds, but there's definitely an undercurrent of violent action in their posts

[QUOTE=RB33;51955527]Maybe not in the US but I think they got a decent amount of power here in Sweden. And at the same time, extreme right influence is minimal in mainstream politics and media.[/QUOTE] Yeah Swedens got a pretty long history of being governed by the left, which we've seen the perks of throughout the 1900s, but the whole SJW thing isn't very big even here.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51955510]Online harrassment is bullshit?[/QUOTE] Zoe Quinn is a harasser though, Anita not so much.

I really hope he was just drunk or something, he sounded off at times during the debate.

[QUOTE=Amakir;51955564]Zoe Quinn is a harasser though, Anita not so much.[/QUOTE] While she doesn't do it herself, Sarkeesian regularly does kick off waves of harassment against her critics by defaming them.

[QUOTE=Amakir;51955564]Zoe Quinn is a harasser though, Anita not so much.[/QUOTE] what has zoe quinn issued death threats against people

Honestly I say be wary of anyone who identifies closely with a "side." Our politics have turned from civil debate to verbal warfare. We no longer see people with different opinions but rather enemies instead. Jon is an example of this, a well meaning person who got wrapped up in joining a side rather than forming his own idea. Guy needs to take a break and look at all sides of these things he has argued for and against, just like a lot of people of Facepunch probably need to do as well.

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51955597]Honestly I say be wary of anyone who identifies closely with a "side." Our politics have turned from civil debate to verbal warfare. We no longer see people with different opinions but rather enemies instead. Jon is an example of this, a well meaning person who got wrapped up in joining a side rather than forming his own idea. Guy needs to take a break and look at all sides of these things he has argued for and against, just like a lot of people of Facepunch probably need to do as well.[/QUOTE] This, people get so caught up in the sides and the left-right spectrum (without even understanding it and applying it properly) it becomes less about real politics and more about some individualistic social game.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6uTKPwVnNI[/media] Donsly posted this a year ago. He was right.