Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51955987]He's still funny. Yal'l are crazy if you are unsubbing just because he has uninformed opinions. If he unnecessarily shoehorns his beliefs into his videos then sure.[/QUOTE] I sorta agree but I also think not wanting to support someone because of their views and opinions is a valid reason to avoid content by someone.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51955987]He's still funny. Yal'l are crazy if you are unsubbing just because he has uninformed opinions. If he unnecessarily shoehorns his beliefs into his videos then sure.[/QUOTE] Well at some point you have to consider whether or not you want to (financially or otherwise) support someone with these beliefs and want to elevate their platform by giving them views and subscribers. You could argue that by supporting him in any fashion, whether by subscribing, giving him views (even with adblock off), or otherwise could spread these views to less educated individuals that take Jon's views at face value because of who he is and the influence he has. His audience, I'd imagine, is quite young and impressionable. I don't support directors in movies that push terrible shit, why should I do any different when it comes to youtube, ESPECIALLY when it could end up being even more damaging in the long run?

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51955940]Thinking being gay is a sin is homophobic, you don't have to do anything to be homophobic, simply maintaining the idea that gay people are evil is enough and damaging in its own way.[/QUOTE] You can't force people to accept others for their differences. People have a right to their opinions, even if those opinions are disagreeable. They aren't hurting anyone anyways so there really isn't anything else someone can do.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51956010]Well at some point you have to consider whether or not you want to (financially or otherwise) support someone with these beliefs and want to elevate their platform by giving them views and subscribers. You could argue that by supporting him in any fashion, whether by subscribing, giving him views (even with adblock off), or otherwise could spread these views to less educated individuals that take Jon's views at face value because of who he is and the influence he has. His audience, I'd imagine, is quite young and impressionable. I don't support directors in movies that push terrible shit, why should I do any different when it comes to youtube?[/QUOTE] That's only if he brings his political opinions into his content, which he doesn't.

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51956014]You can't force people to accept others for their differences. People have a right to their opinions, even if those opinions are disagreeable. They aren't hurting anyone anyways so there really isn't anything else someone can do.[/QUOTE] The opinion that the white race majority must be preserved to prevent the country from being overthrown by foreign invaders doesn't harm anyone?

What is this thread about? I've read it and am still confused.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51956004]I sorta agree but I also think not wanting to support someone because of their views and opinions is a valid reason to avoid content by someone.[/QUOTE] But don't call people who do still watch his content bigots by association. One can enjoy a content creator's stuff and disagree with their political opinions/beliefs. (Note I am not saying you did this. I'm saying this as more of a general statement)

I guess someone had to put the "Ech" in "Reich"

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51954043]Of course japan is in crisis because they have too many old people, not enough people having babies and not enough immigration.[/QUOTE] its pretty much the natural course of action when a country has a death rate higher than its birth rate.only thing you can do is provide incentives for having kids or something, Like lower taxes or less of a stigma about stay at home parents. It's pretty nuanced and thats why i think anything complex over twitter is bound to end up in a clusterfuck, 140 characters isn't suited for it. the video is a whole can of worms being opened. Its gonna be a crazy couple of weeks and i well expect to see news about JonTron being X or Y.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956022]The opinion that the white race majority must be preserved to prevent the country from being overthrown by foreign invaders doesn't harm anyone?[/QUOTE] Eh, it may but it also may not

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51956020]That's only if he brings his political opinions into his content, which he doesn't.[/QUOTE] But you cannot deny that he has a bigger platform for his beliefs because of his unrelated fame that he gained from gaming videos on youtube. He would be just another dime-a-dozen, entry level white nationalist, but he's a massive personality with a massive following and thus his debate on these issues has gained 13 pages of discussion on this thread [I]alone.[/I] He doesn't need to put politics in his videos to put politics into his sphere of influence, if that makes sense.

[QUOTE=zizzleplix;51956029]But don't call people who do still watch his content bigots by association. One can enjoy a content creator's stuff and disagree with their political opinions/beliefs. (Note I am not saying you did this. I'm saying this as more of a general statement)[/QUOTE] Oh yeh, no I get ya, I'm still gonna watch his stuff myself, I'm just saying I don't think less of people who choose not to.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956022]The opinion that the white race majority must be preserved to prevent the country from being overthrown by foreign invaders doesn't harm anyone?[/QUOTE] You can educate people but you can't force them to think the same as you. How fucked up would it be if we locked up every person that didn't agree with what the majority thought was right?

Really makes you think [video=youtube;Vwl9ivxldjc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwl9ivxldjc[/video] [video=youtube;1QOLy_N0jIU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QOLy_N0jIU[/video]

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51956035]Eh, it may but it also may not[/QUOTE] I feel like a guy with almost 2 million followers on twitter retweeting and defending nationalists and neonazis can be extremely harmful

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51956039]Oh yeh, no I get ya, I'm still gonna watch his stuff myself, I'm just saying I don't think less of people who choose not to.[/QUOTE] I mean I suppose I cannot stop you from watching his content if you enjoy it, but I would consider that you might be elevating his platform by a few millimeters when you do so. [sp]this sounds really fucking guilt-trippy lol[/sp]

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51955987]He's still funny. Yal'l are crazy if you are unsubbing just because he has uninformed opinions. If he unnecessarily shoehorns his beliefs into his videos then sure.[/QUOTE] I don't intend on supporting a racist's livelihood, especially if he plans on propagating those ideas into the world, as he seems to be doing with his recent tweets.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51956004]I sorta agree but I also think not wanting to support someone because of their views and opinions is a valid reason to avoid content by someone.[/QUOTE] No not really, as long as it doesn't affect their content or if the beliefs aren't absolutely despicable.

he debated that naked ape guy that gets posted here sometimes too it went pretty well [url]https://clips.twitch.tv/OriginalRockyAntTooSpicy[/url]

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51956040]You can educate people but you can't force them to think the same as you. How fucked up would it be if we locked up every person that didn't agree with what the majority thought was right?[/QUOTE] I would never, ever advocate that. The idea that people should be punished solely because they hold certain opinions is fucked up. At the same time, saying that holding fucked up racist beliefs and espousing those views publicly when you have a huge audience of people following you doesn't have any negative effects just seems delusional.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956057]No not really, as long as it doesn't affect their content or if the beliefs aren't absolutely despicable.[/QUOTE] His views are kinda despicable

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956057]No not really, as long as it doesn't affect their content [B]or if the beliefs aren't absolutely despicable.[/B][/QUOTE] they kinda are tho

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956057]No not really, as long as it doesn't affect their content or if the beliefs aren't absolutely despicable.[/QUOTE] They're pretty far out, my man.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;51956053]Who the fuck on facepunch actually says/believes this on such a regular basis that this argument get brought up at least once in every thread? :v:[/QUOTE] It seems to be the only way you can ensure dangerous thoughts don't get out without straight up killing someone for it. It's a hypothetical and most likely wouldn't happen, but it's important to highlight the fact that you can't just force people to comply without turning into a villain yourself. As I said before you can only inform and try to educate others. You can't force them to comply from a moral standpoint. It takes time and patience along with understanding why people hold these views.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51956063]His views are kinda despicable[/QUOTE] You know what I mean by despicable. I haven't heard him talk about the world being a better place if all Muslims were lined up against a wall and shot in the back of the had with a freedom pistol. His rants against multiculturalism are somewhat racist and very misinformed but I guess I just draw my line further than a lot of people.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956057]No not really, as long as it doesn't affect their content or if the beliefs aren't absolutely despicable.[/QUOTE] It's not about the content tho

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51956014]You can't force people to accept others for their differences. People have a right to their opinions, even if those opinions are disagreeable. They aren't hurting anyone anyways so there really isn't anything else someone can do.[/QUOTE] People are entitled to their opinion, and other people are entitled to call those people out for having shit opinions. You have freedom of speech not freedom from consequence.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956072]You know what I mean by despicable. I haven't heard him talk about the world being a better place if all Muslims were lined up against a wall and shot in the back of the had with a freedom pistol. His rants against multiculturalism are somewhat racist and very misinformed but I guess I just draw my line further than a lot of people.[/QUOTE] Why does it take "the world being a better place if all Muslims were lined up against a wall and shot in the back of the had with a freedom pistol" for you to take issue with someone's beliefs? You will probably not take issue with anyone short of David Duke if you only look for the most explicit endorsements of prejudice possible. We live in a landscape where problematic most views are found deep within layers of gaslighting, dogwhistles, and misrepresented statistics. Unless you actually put forth the effort to peel back those layers you're going to end up being tolerant to a [B]lot[/B] of despicable shit.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51956020]That's only if he brings his political opinions into his content, which he doesn't.[/QUOTE] Like I said, it's going to be hard not to think about it whenever you watch him, which is always going to kill the mood a little.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51955955]No I agree, I'm applying a very particular viewpoint that's admittedly a little heated to this issue. I'd be willing to have a more nuanced discussion to the best of my ability if anyone was up for it, though.[/QUOTE] We'd probably have to get a lot of (speaker-dependent) definitions out of the way first and/or look at the different ways words are used in practice that don't appear in the dictionary. I browse a few different communities (not actually extremists, just people from different general areas on the political whatever that in those groups have fairly similar perspectives) and as soon as the topic comes up it's practically like looking at different languages. I think it's particularly bad in English due to how polarised US politics are, and in part the various due to that disenfranchised groups that don't usually appear in the public eye and tend to keep to themselves. I'd be up for dissecting this mess too (and I'm certain I'm missing at least some stuff due to my own political biases and the fact that I'm not 'local' to the issue), though a fast-moving thread like this one is most likely not a good place for that.