Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51952312] Now I'm just waiting for Arin Hansen to come out and say "JonTron was being a massive dick and thats why we split up"[/QUOTE] I really dont think thats the case. Theres a difference between having uninformed, wrong views, and being an asshole. I had a friend in highschool who was anti-gay (something he got from his parents, despite him going against their religious views), i questioned him about it one day and we had a calm discussion about it, no real change of opinions but we understood eachothers reasoning and let bygones be bygones because he wasnt a dick about it and never brought it up besides the one time. Especially with a guy like JonTron, that kind of dirt would've come out by now.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952310]Yeah, it honestly sounds like something he was told was true, not something he himself, in his heart of hearts, thinks is true. Its kind of hard to describe exactly what i hear when i listen to him talk about it, the easiest way i can think of to describe what i mean is theres this underlying lack of confidence in what he's saying that sticks out to me like a sore thumb. Subtle frustration and an inability to properly express his thoughts, too.[/QUOTE] I know exactly what you mean though. I feel the same way. It doesn't feel like he fully, hardcore believes this. It seems like he's not sure? Or like, just saying what he's heard. I also can't put it into words but I just wanted to say I feel the same thing from what Jon has said.

Sky Williams was on Destiny's stream trying to defend JonTron, and he was sticking by him up until the very end when he saw the, "Wealthy blacks also commit more crime than poor whites. That's a fact," clip. That took the wind right out of his sails.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952347]One of his key points during the first, didnt he go back on it after someone calmly argued with him on twitter with some good arguments and articles/evidence?[/QUOTE] Dunno, I've heard most of this stuff second hand. I think he did though.

[QUOTE=Slim Charles;51952296]Why's he need to shut up though? irregardless of if his points are good or even correct I think everyone has a right to voice their political opinion.[/QUOTE] Because it's completely pointless. All he does at this point is harm his own image. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but in some cases you won't get anything out of it. Jon joins these debates but isn't really prepared for them. He's making an ass of himself, and for no reward.

[QUOTE=kariko;51952358]I know exactly what you mean though. I feel the same way. It doesn't feel like he fully, hardcore believes this. It seems like he's not sure? Or like, just saying what he's heard. I also can't put it into words but I just wanted to say I feel the same thing from what Jon has said.[/QUOTE] I think he hesitates because if he just came out and actually said "black people are inherently more criminal" his business and social life would fucking implode.

[QUOTE=dai;51952303]it really does sound like he's talking about things like they're common knowledge, it's almost guaranteed it's something he grew up around. Approaching it from an "I heard", "I thought", "you know... doesn't X mean Y?", etc conversational input is definitely not as bad as aggressively preaching that something is a fact, but he's still approaching the conversation expressing his opinion/view on these things. Maybe he's a victim of shitty upbringing but that doesn't mean the statements shouldn't be called out and yeah I agree with the 'he should shut up' thing to an extent, like I said before. He should have learned by now that talking politically gets him serious backlash and does nothing but harm his image and ultimately can destroy his source of income if youtube/his contract holder decide they don't want to be associated with his controversial views[/QUOTE] Definitely due to what he's been exposed to, but almost guaranteed to be a recent phenomenon rather than upbringing. Sounds like stock standard /pol/ shit and not hard to trace that to friends made post-GG. This entire thing reeks of someone who "took the red pill" having never had any strong opinions prior and thinks a flood of infographics are enough to do a live debate. Embarrassing, but I don't think Jon is a shitty person, just doing stupid things.

[QUOTE=dai;51952303]it really does sound like he's talking about things like they're common knowledge, it's almost guaranteed it's something he grew up around. Approaching it from an "I heard", "I thought", "you know... doesn't X mean Y?", etc conversational input is definitely not as bad as aggressively preaching that something is a fact, but he's still approaching the conversation expressing his opinion/view on these things. Maybe he's a victim of shitty upbringing but that doesn't mean the statements shouldn't be called out and yeah I agree with the 'he should shut up' thing to an extent, like I said before. He should have learned by now that talking politically gets him serious backlash and does nothing but harm his image and ultimately can destroy his source of income if youtube/his contract holder decide they don't want to be associated with his controversial views[/QUOTE] The biggest thing Jon has taught me is that if I ever become famous for something, keep my political views for myself. Whether you consider him a rational, nice person or not this has done nothing good for him. I know someone who expressed they can no longer watch his content because they can't separate the guy from the politics. Now that I've seen this I would rather run a show isolated entirely from politics rather than tainting what I just want to be a good show with political bullshit.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51952368]I think he hesitates because if he just came out and actually said "black people are inherently more criminal" his business and social life would fucking implode.[/QUOTE] Given the fact that he's already talking about this shit, i dont think thats the case. People already raised a giant shitstorm for the mundane things he said, he even mentioned it and joked about how he was burning his career down. [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51952374]The biggest thing Jon has taught me is that if I ever become famous for something, keep my political views for myself. Whether you consider him a rational, nice person or not this has done nothing good for him. I know someone who expressed they can no longer watch his content because they can't separate the guy from the politics. Now that I've seen this I would rather run a show isolated entirely from politics rather than tainting what I just want to be a good show with political bullshit.[/QUOTE] Family member gave me good advice once. There are two things you never talk about unless you want to start a fight: Religion and politics.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51952338]preserving the racial purity of the country by barring entry to people of different races is a pretty fucked up thing to support[/QUOTE] I want to say that most young people that are afraid of loosing their "Identity" aren't the type that want to bar immigration over things like the color of your skin and aren't genocidal extremists in the making, I don't think they even really have any concrete idea on what would even be the solution to their turmoil. But that's just how I feel honestly, I like to think most people irregardless of whatever political niche they are apart of aren't terrible people. I think in these pretty turbulent times politically people are afraid and confused and are half-heartily jumping to conclusions; I feel this applies to JonTron too.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952376]Given the fact that he's already talking about this shit, i dont think thats the case. People already raised a giant shitstorm for thee mundane things he said, he even mentioned it and joked about how he was burning his career down.[/QUOTE] idk, he seems like the kinda person who's just too fucking retarded to realize how racist they are like he'd say all this shit and then blame destiny for trying to trick him with his "flowery words" like I just think the guy is dealing with hardcore cognitive dissonance

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952376]Family member gave me good advice once. There are two things you never talk about unless you want to start a fight: Religion and politics.[/QUOTE] Well if someone ever becomes famous, almost always their opinions on these things will come to light due to getting egged on or expressing themselves without thinking, and everything goes to shit. The difference is how much damage control you can do and how earnest you can be about it.

Poor Jon, it kinda feels like he was in some very raunchy conversations with his friends about race issues, but couldn't bring himself to put it into a cohesive argument. It seems that lot of what he says is based on anecdotal and straight up untrue information, and he does come of bigoted. Although one thing super fucking annoying here is this destiny dude trying to get him to explain every single word he uses, not giving him enough time to form an argument, which makes Jon look more bad than I hope he is. And then Jontrono digs himself even a bigger hole by shrugging it off with laughter.

[QUOTE=Populus89;51952392]Although one thing super fucking annoying here is this destiny dude trying to get him to explain every single word he uses, not giving him enough time to form an argument, which makes Jon look more bad than I hope he is.[/QUOTE] Jon's fault for getting himself into a debate unprepared against someone who's clearly used to debate.

[QUOTE=Populus89;51952392]Poor Jon, it kinda feels like he was in some very raunchy conversations with his friends about race issues, but couldn't bring himself to put it into a cohesive argument. It seems that lot of what he says is based on anecdotal and straight up untrue information, and he does come of bigoted. Although one thing super fucking annoying here is this destiny dude trying to get him to explain every single word he uses, not giving him enough time to form an argument, which makes Jon look more bad than I hope he is. And then Jontrono digs himself even a bigger hole by shrugging it off with laughter.[/QUOTE] I actually dont think the laughter is him shrugging it off, at least not all of it. Some of it comes off as a defensive reflex type response. He even does it after some shit he says thats noticeably more confident-sounding than normal.

Anyone find any source on this? I doubt it's true. [quote][url=https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSavoryTroutLitty]"Wealthy blacks commit more crime than poor whites. That's a fact, look it up"[/url][/QUOTE]

i thought this thread would be about jontron ranting about the game destiny, turns out it's this clusterfuck again

[QUOTE=artDecor;51952418]i thought this thread would be about jontron ranting about the game destiny, turns out it's this clusterfuck again[/QUOTE] Thank god it isnt. Im fine (in principle) with him venting political beliefs on his own time, im glad he's keeping it out of his work.

Wow what a strange thing to wake up to, Jon Tron being total dick about race...

When Jon mentions non-white majority voters and welfare in the same breath while talking about red states leeching on the federal budget you can just see what he really wants to say.

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51952410]Anyone find any source on this? I doubt it's true.[/QUOTE] Only thing I found was articles about [URL="http://www.infostormer.com/rich-blacks-end-up-in-jail-more-often-than-poor-whites/"]"Wealthy blacks end up in jail more often than poor whites".[/URL] Which seems like a great source of information [QUOTE]Of course, the Jewish media will claim that this is part of some “racist” conspiracy by White cops who hate Blacks because they have a different skin color.[/QUOTE] Oh wait

I've kept telling myself lately that JonTron's just generally ignorant and vastly overestimates his own political knowledge, but here he is spitting alt-right bio-truths about blacks committing more crime solely on the basis of their race. He's an actual racist, holy shit.

why does a guy who makes videos about old janky video games need to express his political views lol, why is there a sudden burst of interest in it.

[QUOTE=massaki;51952468]why does a guy who makes videos about old janky video games need to express his political views lol, why is there a sudden burst of interest in it.[/QUOTE] Theres no need for him to really justify it, but he just said its pretty much out of frustration in the first Sargon stream.

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51952410]Anyone find any source on this? I doubt it's true.[/QUOTE] [url]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf[/url] This is an actual statistic from the god damn FBI about race and crime, take it as you will

[QUOTE=massaki;51952468]why does a guy who makes videos about old janky video games need to express his political views lol, why is there a sudden burst of interest in it.[/QUOTE] Far as I can tell he just sorta randomly hashed out some opinions on Twitter without thinking, a massive shitstorm was evoked because people react to everything, he tried to revoke his opinions when legitimate counterarguments were made, and now he's just sort of being brought into things without a good, firm opinion of his own. [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] this is why you don't follow jaque's example and parrot things, jon

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51952479][url]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf[/url] This is an actual statistic from the god damn FBI about race and crime, take it as you will[/QUOTE] There's nothing about wealth in it though.

[QUOTE=kariko;51952490]There's nothing about wealth in it though.[/QUOTE] I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that the claim Jon made is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=kariko;51952490]There's nothing about wealth in it though.[/QUOTE] There's no statistic about wealth, a lot of the statistics in regards to that are usually very shoddy and vague and don't have much research put into them

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51952330]It gets even fuckin weirder once you find out that he apparently voted for bernie in the primaries[/QUOTE] I made this post earlier in the Sargon thread earlier on this phenomenon but I think it's too aggressive in the context of this thread, so here's a more toned down in-depth analysis. JonTron voted like a lot of Bernie or Bust people: Selfishly. Bernie was appealing to people like JonTron because Bernie was promising to give back to the middle class, especially to middle class young adults (18-30). The Bernie or Bust movement didn't care about Bernie's social policies, or at worst, absoultely hated his social policies. They only cared about his economic policies: putting more, well deserved, money into the middle class and the poor. In and of itself, there's nothing wrong with supporting such ideals. The reasoning though, is the problem. When Bernie was cheated out of the race, a lot of people like JonTron and Sargon of Akkad looked to Trump. Trump promised the moon for middle class voters. Trump told them everything they wanted to hear and more. Hillary Clinton promised a boost for the middle class but the most you've heard from her is her scandals and her social policies (Related: One was an excuse not to vote for her over Trump, one was the reason not to vote for her over Trump). Not convinced? It was touted after election day that people who voted Obama voted for Trump. It was an outrageous topic because you'd reflect back on Obama's social progress and think that they're absoultely incompatible with each other, but upon reflection investigation Obama and Trump promised quite a lot of economic benefit to the middle class, and really that's the only thing voters cared about because honestly why would another person give a shit about some refugee's welfare when they're dealing with their own problems? Want to know the real reason(s) why Trump won? - Hillary Clinton focused too much on the minority (social justice), too little on the majority (economic issues). - Donald Trump focused less on the minority (social justice), focused more on the majority (economic issues). It has nothing to do with Liberals. It has nothing to do with scandals. It has nothing to do with meme magic.