Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956516]They really don't though. When legit racists are like "haha let's gas the kikes(no but really mexicans are subhuman mongrels who rape our women)" how is anyone supposed to tell what's legit and what isn't? Like you just made a joke, but fucking Pvt. Martin did that exact same shit but for real. So how is anyone even supposed to know anymore?[/QUOTE] The Poe's Law challenge.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51956514]Yes, you should judge on what is said, not what you think it infers. It doesn't do anything.[/QUOTE] that's absolutely asinine you're telling me that if someone told you "you know kids are ready for sexual intercourse at 5 years old" multiple times you wouldn't infer that they were endorsing pedophilia? You'd just say "well he hasn't said it should be legal to fuck kids and he hasn't said he'd do it so I can't say he's a pedophile"?

[QUOTE=RB33;51956515]Because he doesn't think they should. He never gave a more detailed answer for it despite being asked that 5+ times. Must he be wrong though? Isn't it possible to believe that without being racist? Becoming a minority, that is.[/QUOTE] can you give me a single reason why whites becoming a minority would be bad even under the assumption that all the non whites are integrated into american culture

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51956512]I was with destiny until he started implying decreasing wages is a good thing. Like yeah you geta cheaper ps4, except only middle class people can afford it while everyone else is on 20p a day.[/QUOTE] I found the stream pretty entertaining because I feel partially these two debating are very similar in mannerisms but have polar opposite views That being said I agreed with most of destinys points except like you said decreasing wages for the working class generally doesn't benefit the working class, and the outcome of higher up managering roles becoming open to them doesn't always come come to pass.

JonTron v 2.0: Racial SuperiECHTity.

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51956533]I love when people try to be funny and cool by making sarcastic posts like this. Maybe stop making posts that can be refuted by anyone with decent reasoning skills. Acting like everyone else is crazy for refusing to support someone with abhorrent beliefs. Lol. I guess if people aren't not unsubbing over this then what should they unsub for? :thinking: Maybe another dumb beef between two Youtube personalities is more deserving of an unsub then some guy talking about "Immigrants getting into the gene pool". I'm tired of this charade of obvious JonTron fans trying to deflect with such poorly thought out arguments. How attached do you have to be to JonTron's loins to even say some of the shit that's been said in this thread. It's like some people don't realize how obvious their motives are and think people can't see the bias on their sleeve. Anymore JonTron fan's here to attempt to diffuse the situation? Like jeez get off Youtube and breathe some fresh air, damn.[/QUOTE] JonTron is a racist. I still find his videos funny. I'll continuing watching his videos. I enjoy the content of a racist man. I am not a racist man. I just don't care. Am I supporting a racist? Technically yes, but at least I use ublock. Shit I said I'd stop on the top of page 16...

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956525]that's absolutely asinine you're telling me that if someone told you "you know kids are ready for sexual intercourse at 5 years old" multiple times you wouldn't infer that they were endorsing pedophilia? You'd just say "well he hasn't said it should be legal to fuck kids and he hasn't said he'd do it so I can't say he's a pedophile"?[/QUOTE] I would think he's a freak, but I wouldn't go around calling him a kidfucker just like I think Jon is being a racist but I'm not using that information to say he is a white supremacist.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51956504]I uh... Im not really arguing that? Im more referring to you saying his youtube is signal boosting when theres been no overlap so far between his content and his politics, and at least 43-44% of his audience arent even on his twitter. Like i get he's doing it on his twitter and theres 1.78 million people who see it there, but none of thats been on his youtube.[/QUOTE] What's your point? Theres a natural overlap that occurs when your identity is so pervasive nowadays. Jon's fame, and his influence is not something that just exists in a vacuum on YouTube.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51956512]I was with destiny until he started implying decreasing wages is a good thing. Like yeah you geta cheaper ps4, except only middle class people can afford it while everyone else is on 20p a day.[/QUOTE] that wasn't his point AT ALL His point is that while immigration is measurably a net benefit to the country, it negatively impacts specific subsets of society. The logical thing to do is institute government programs that help the people negatively affected using the extra resources generated by the immigrants. His point wasn't that PS3s are cheap so immigrants are good, his point was that increased labor lowers the overall cost of living, with electronics as an example of how increased labor directly benefits the end consumer with lower prices.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956550]JonTron is a racist. I still find his videos funny. I'll continuing watching his videos. I enjoy the content of a racist man. I am not a racist man. I just don't care. Am I supporting a racist? Technically yes, but at least I use ublock. Shit I said I'd stop on the top of page 16...[/QUOTE] I still read Lovecraft despite his rather untasteful remarks regarding black people and native americans in his work. Ofcourse he's dead, but I betcha I enjoy the art of so many racists without knowing it I don't really feel bothered. Good on all the ppl making an active decision not to tho.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956451]Yes, I do that a lot. I don't think. I just wanted an excuse to argue. I'll still watch his videos though, and as a recent convert to the alt right it feels good to be in the racist crowd now because this world is literally black and white anyway (no pun intended).[/QUOTE] this is bad. how do we fix this

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51956561]I still read Lovecraft despite his rather untasteful remarks regarding black people and native americans in his work. Ofcourse he's dead, but I betcha I enjoy the art of so many racists without knowing it I don't really feel bothered. Good on all the ppl making an active decision not to tho.[/QUOTE] Hell, even Abraham Lincoln believed Africans were innately less intelligent (nearly everyone did back then). These days it can be readily disproved so there really is no excuse, but the point still stands. Hate the man, enjoy his art.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956560]that wasn't his point AT ALL His point is that while immigration is measurably a net benefit to the country, it negatively impacts specific subsets of society. The logical thing to do is institute government programs that help the people negatively affected using the extra resources generated by the immigrants. His point wasn't that PS3s are cheap so immigrants are good, his point was that increased labor lowers the overall cost of living, with electronics as an example of how increased labor directly benefits the end consumer with lower prices.[/QUOTE] Yeah but we all know those government programs will never be created because the libertarians who pushed for cheaper labour will actively oppose it, so all it's doing it driving everyones wages down and leaving people unable to afford basic living costs. A wealthy few might get cheaper electronics, but it's at the expense of the working class living in China like conditions. I've heard this libertarian logic far too much and it's almost as bad (and often goes hand in hand) as altright thinking.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51956554]I would think he's a freak, just like I think Jon is being a racist but I'm not using that information to say he is a white supremacist.[/QUOTE] I can't believe that you're not being obtuse on purpose here like you're accepting that Jon said "1+1 = I won't say ;)" and refusing to accept that he was going to say 2

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956542]can you give me a single reason why whites becoming a minority would be bad even under the assumption that all the non whites are integrated into american culture[/QUOTE] You may not like people coming from the outside adopting your culture and want to reserve it for people born into it. (Which can mean varying degrees of racism.) There are plenty of cultures not wanting outsiders among them, they might be considered racist in that case.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51956584]Yeah but we all know those government programs will never be created because the libertarians who pushed for cheaper labour will actively oppose it, so all it's doing it driving everyones wages down and leaving people unable to afford basic living costs. A wealthy few might get cheaper electronics, but it's at the expense of the working class living in China like conditions. I've heard this libertarian logic far too much and it's almost as bad (and often goes hand in hand) as altright thinking.[/QUOTE] but this isn't a conversation about what's practically doable in the current political environment, it's a conversation about what the smartest thing to do would be And even then, an influx of immigrants doesn't collapse the job market. It depreciates wages for a specific group of people while opening up new job opportunities in others. There are papers on this shit you can read if you actually want to know the impact of immigration on the economy.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956575]Hell, even Abraham Lincoln believed Africans were innately less intelligent (nearly everyone did back then). These days it can be readily disproved so there really is no excuse, but the point still stands. Hate the man, enjoy his art.[/QUOTE] No the point doesn't stand, you literally said why Lincoln and Lovecraft were not analogous and went through with the comparison anyway. Knowing that someone is racist and that the spreading of their ignorance is problematic and supporting them anyway is pretty selfish imo

[QUOTE=RB33;51956588]You may not like people coming from the outside adopting your culture and want to reserve it for people born into it. (Which can mean varying degrees of racism.) There are plenty of cultures not wanting outsiders among them, they might be considered racist in that case.[/QUOTE] why do you want to reserve your culture only for people of your race like we aren't talking about "foreign people", we're talking about non whites

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956585]I can't believe that you're not being obtuse on purpose here like you're accepting that Jon said "1+1 = I won't say ;)" and refusing to accept that he was going to say 2[/QUOTE] Nah, I'm just refusing to assume, if that bothers you I'm sorry?

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51956607]Nah, I'm just refusing to assume, if that bothers you I'm sorry?[/QUOTE] hey I'm not going to demand you do what I want I just really don't understand where you're coming from

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51956603]No the point doesn't stand, you literally said why Lincoln and Lovecraft were not analogous and went through with the comparison anyway. Knowing that someone is racist and that the spreading of their ignorance is problematic and supporting them anyway is pretty selfish imo[/QUOTE] Shit you're right that's a bad comparison. I really don't know how to debate properly, it's not something I know how to do.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956628]Shit you're right that's a bad comparison. I really don't know how to debate properly, it's not something I know how to do.[/QUOTE] Then stop posting.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51956605]why do you want to reserve your culture only for people of your race like we aren't talking about "foreign people", we're talking about non whites[/QUOTE] Jon was talking about immigration, so I was going with that. To clarify, I don't actually believe this. For people who want that, I imagine it would be because those people doesn't look like they fit in. When your culture has traditionally only been one race, you may want to keep it that way. You don't like change, foreigners or whatever else.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51956634]Then stop posting.[/QUOTE] That post, admitting his fault, was better than not posting imo

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51956617]Did I call you a racist for watching JonTron's videos? I think the only thing I've alluded too is that you and JonTron share the same intellectual failings as evident from what you're doing now and what Jon did in the debate. [B]What are you so afraid of[/B] In the debate every now and then Jon has to pussy out and cower out of saying something for fear of being called racist (Didn't work) and now you're over here complaining as if someone beat the shit out of you. I don't care if you watch Jon's videos still and I doubt anyone does. What I care about is you posting a comment to berate everyone else for taking offense to what are inherently problematic statements. Especially taking into account we're talking about Youtube content creators, who for the most part live and die by audience participation. So why even bother trying to get at everyone else meanwhile trivializing the shit he says to "uninformed" or as others have said "different" opinions. Like ok? We get it you like JonTron and?? Go watch his videos and stop trying to diffuse the situation as if you're his mascot. In fact don't post in threads about your favorite content creators if all you're going to do is shamelessly play cheerleader. People do that shit every time a content creator they like and never met in real life is attacked. Give it a rest and go relax[/QUOTE] I'll admit I really don't know what I'm doing and I just wanted to "choose a side". When I say this I'm not trying to play victim or make an excuse anything but I do have a disability and I have a lot of stunted mental growth. I'm not sure what to do about that but I see what you mean. I just felt afraid because your replies actually kinda got to me.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51956639]That post, admitting his fault, was better than not posting imo[/QUOTE] Sure but let's not use that as an allowance to keep on in the same vein with pointless posts that don't make any sense and don't have any significance. Quit while you're ahead is all I'm sayin'!

[QUOTE=RB33;51956637]Jon was talking about immigration, so I was going with that. To clarify, I don't actually believe this. For people who want that, I imagine it would be because those people doesn't look like they fit in. When your culture has traditionally only been one race, you may want to keep that way. You don't like change, foreigners or whatever else.[/QUOTE] I'm trying to understand what possible interpretation of jontron's statements you could have that isn't racist, because you asked "isn't it possible to have these views and not be racist" and you're saying the not racist reason for keeping out brown people is "I don't like how brown people look"

[QUOTE=Pascall;51956634]Then stop posting.[/QUOTE] I want to learn though.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956628]Shit you're right that's a bad comparison. I really don't know how to debate properly, it's not something I know how to do.[/QUOTE] It's ok, admitting any sort of weakness in any area is a pretty great thing IMO and I admire that. It's better than Jon did at least. The only thing I'm trying to get you to realize is that by providing him with views and subscribers, you're contributing to the exposure of his views to a large amount of less informed and very impressionable people.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51956651]I'll admit I really don't know what I'm doing and I just wanted to "choose a side". When I say this I'm not trying to play victim or make an excuse anything but I do have a disability and I have a lot of stunted mental growth. I'm not sure what to do about that but I see what you mean. I just felt afraid because your replies actually kinda got to me.[/QUOTE] I think you're just fine dude, chill out