Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

Even if the wealth stat was true, what point is he trying to make? That it's genetic? I mean theres so many factors anyways that knowing the wealth statistic isn't enough to make a conclusion.

[QUOTE=Cold Finger;51952497]I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that the claim Jon made is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] You think he got wealth mixed up with poor somehow? Like at some point he was talking to someone and it got switched and it stuck. His statement would make a little more sense that way, though not in the racial way but more poverty and crime correlation type of way. Though i suppose that still ties back into wealth inequality.

[QUOTE=Cold Finger;51952497]I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that the claim Jon made is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Well yes, I agree. I just meant that FlandersNed was asking about his claim of wealthy black people committing more crimes and that link doesn't show wealth. That's pretty awful though. Obviously I can't be sure but it sounds like Jontron was trying to say that black people commit more crimes because they're black, but he didn't want to say it. I don't know what else "Wealthy blacks commit more crime than poor whites" would imply.

[QUOTE=kariko;51952529]Well yes, I agree. I just meant that FlandersNed was asking about his claim of wealthy black people committing more crimes and that link doesn't show wealth. That's pretty awful though. Obviously I can't be sure but it sounds like Jontron was trying to say that black people commit more crimes because they're black, but he didn't want to say it. I don't know what else "Wealthy blacks commit more crime than poor whites" would imply.[/QUOTE] Its a very poorly worded statement.

[QUOTE=Cold Finger;51952497]I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that the claim Jon made is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] It's probably something one of his alt-right followers tweeted at him, to be honest. What's happened is he's pissed off and alienated his more reasonable fans, meanwhile the conservative, alt-right and fascist elements of his fan-base (and undoubtedly a lot of opportunists who until recently never engaged with him) coddle him and re-affirm that he's actually right about everything and that the people getting (rightfully) angry with him are just cultural Marxist SJWs trying to take away his free speech.

"irish people were treated like they were sub human" "that's a myth" ??????????????????????????????

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51952479][url]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf[/url] This is an actual statistic from the god damn FBI about race and crime, take it as you will[/QUOTE] Not trying to deny this but a lot of statistics there also seem to be pretty close between white and black people (while certain others seem to be higher for white people) so it just gives more of a picture of shitty people exist regardless of race. It's disingenous to construct an argument against a single group of people using something like this because it does ignore more nuanced factors like background, education, location etc. Making arguments to peg one group of people into a certain stereotype are always bound to be very misunderstood because statistics are not really a true in depth look at the causes of these problems, they usually just give us the symptoms. It's a classic example for missing the forest for the trees, just because you think that oh these individuals are more likely doesn't mean that they are also the cause but it means we have to question what in society as a whole as caused these issues. We need to actually dispell this myth that statistics are the end all be all of logical rational arguments because they are just data points to interpret.

[QUOTE=shadow_oap;51952517]Even if the wealth stat was true, what point is he trying to make? That it's genetic? I mean theres so many factors anyways that knowing the wealth statistic isn't enough to make a conclusion.[/QUOTE] My guess is he was trying to make a cultural point of some kind. I know a lot of people on both sides of the fence, and some of the conservatives I know will bring up culture. Specifically, American culture vs. inner city culture, or gang culture, or however they refer to it as. I'm not going to really make a point with this cuz it's like 6 in the morning, just wanted to add some food for thought to the debate.

[QUOTE=Cyanlime;51952533]people getting (rightfully) angry with him[/QUOTE] Maybe for these statements, but if it werent for the complete metric pants shitting from that first stream i dont think he would've started leaning more towards those opportunists to begin with. Though still uninformed, his statements during that first stream were really mundane, but people lost their fucking minds, and he even conceited an argument to a major point he discussed in the stream on twitter later.

[QUOTE=Camdude90;51952545]"irish people were treated like they were sub human" "that's a myth" ??????????????????????????????[/QUOTE] He might be confusing the "No Irish Need Apply" signs, which are hotly debated, with anti-irish sentiment in general?

[QUOTE=Camdude90;51952545]"irish people were treated like they were sub human" "that's a myth" ??????????????????????????????[/QUOTE] I think he was saying that them not being considered white is the myth. Which Destiny shot down bringing up the "white negro" and "inside out negro" etc (i.e. not pure like whites) stuff.

[QUOTE=Camdude90;51952545]"irish people were treated like they were sub human" "that's a myth" ??????????????????????????????[/QUOTE] And then he says "Maybe they had some undesirable traits"... quite disgusting. Hope he loses subscribers over this.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51952479][url]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf[/url] This is an actual statistic from the god damn FBI about race and crime, take it as you will[/QUOTE] Did they lump White and Hispanic together

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952524]You think he got wealth mixed up with poor somehow? Like at some point he was talking to someone and it got switched and it stuck. His statement would make a little more sense that way, though not in the racial way but more poverty and crime correlation type of way. Though i suppose that still ties back into wealth inequality.[/QUOTE] I don't think it works for poor vs poor either. From the [URL="https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137"]Bureau of Justice Statistics:[/URL] [quote]Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).[/quote]

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51952573]And then he says "Maybe they had some undesirable traits"... quite disgusting. Hope he loses subscribers over this.[/QUOTE] ara jasus fecking now i'll call up the lads, we'll plant... a tree near jon tron's house and sure he'll get hit by it.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51952573]And then he says "Maybe they had some undesirable traits"... quite disgusting. Hope he loses subscribers over this.[/QUOTE] Got a clip of that? When does he say this?

if you don't have the time to watch i have created a short and concise summary [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WkNL8jj.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51952598]Got a clip of that? When does he say this?[/QUOTE] Just listened to the stream - if I'm wrong my mind's playing tricks on me. That said, I'm paraphrasing, should've probably pointed out. Kinda edit: Okay, I was about to point to where he said "Maybe they were a bunch of dicks" (around the 31 minute mark), and while he clearly deflected, it was also said jokingly, so maybe I had been unfair. But then he actually goes on to say (at 31.15) "Maybe they had some traits that were undesirable", so really I almost got his quote right.

Someone should do an edit where they show all of JonTrons bad claims and then prove it wrong with pics of stats. He said he was open to being proven wrong.

PBG was right all along.

This is why internet personalities shouldn't get involved with politics.

What are you doing JonTron, The thing with Sargon wasn't that bad, just different opinions, but this, this, in the words of JonTron, "Fucking retarded"

What is Jontron fucking doing? Why did he get involved into politics at all? What is he thinking? It wouldn't even matter that much if he could articulate what he's saying but he's shit at that too so he looks completely stupid when he isn't circlejerking with Sargon or some other alt-right dick. Why is he even sticking to the white supremacist shit when he's fucking Persian?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952524]You think he got wealth mixed up with poor somehow? Like at some point he was talking to someone and it got switched and it stuck. His statement would make a little more sense that way, though not in the racial way but more poverty and crime correlation type of way. Though i suppose that still ties back into wealth inequality.[/QUOTE] If he got wealthy and poor mixed up, and the statement was supposed to be 'poor blacks commit more crime than wealthy whites', then that's not much better. It's just a basic fact of wealth inequality, turned into a racial argument Sorry man but I think you're projecting a lot of nuance onto Jon's views that just isn't there

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51952301]Im more saying he needs to shut up because he's completely uninformed and he's only hurting himself.[/QUOTE] Lmfao you just argued against me for saying the exact same thing about jontron in another thread, you're such a hypocrite dude.

he really shot himself in the foot this time huh

a lot of you in this thread are doing some pretty intense mental gymnastics trying to reconcile the fact that you like jontron's content with the fact that he's coming very close to sounding like a bigot the guy obviously has some pretty shitty opinions, i like his videos but damn dude he's really fucking ignorant/bordering on malicious here.

Jontron, could you not do this?

Wait, why is he taking an anti-immigration stance if his father (iirc) was foreign?

[QUOTE=ChickenMan99;51952912]Wait, why is he taking an anti-immigration stance if his father (iirc) was foreign?[/QUOTE] he's a fucking idiot is why [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] both his parents are iranian immigrants, this shit blows my mind