Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

Local right wing idiot responds to being blown the fuck out in a debate by using his cult of personality to make spiteful personal attacks against his opponent, story in a few hours.

It's really hard to swallow the idea that Jontron of all people is spouting shit about racial purity and protecting the white gene pool What the actual shit dude. I really hope he changes his tune when he gets a little more informed but he's definitely been disgustingly smug over this topic he knows jack shit about. I'm really starting to dislike him in general

As I said before, Ape is vile

All I'll say on this matter is that while I can't excuse the words JonTron has said, and while I definitely don't agree with them, I'm still going to watch his content because I still find it entertaining. There are a fair amount of artists and entertainers that have controversial opinions in one way or the other, but as long as their views don't bleed into their work (and it hasn't for JonTron outside of that slight mention in his recent Q&A video), then I'll continue to support their work. Once their agendas go into their work is when I decide to tune out. As for Destiny, can't say I'm a fan. I don't deny his ability to debate, but I would've at least preferred a more casual debate style instead of something akin to the chaotic debate style of a presidential primary. Not to mention he's had some controversial and even borderline "racist" thoughts on some topics in previous debates that I've watched as well. Perhaps both sides of the controversy coin just come from the heat of the moment, where one just isn't prepared enough or has enough time to fully articulate their opinion. As for what Jon can do, I'd say his best option is to just own up to it and apologize. Laying low won't help, and trying to defend his stance definitely won't help.

[QUOTE=Rahu X;51960641]All I'll say on this matter is that while I can't excuse the words JonTron has said, and while I definitely don't agree with them, I'm still going to watch his content because I still find it entertaining. There are a fair amount of artists and entertainers that have controversial opinions in one way or the other, but as long as their views don't bleed into their work (and it hasn't for JonTron outside of that slight mention in his recent Q&A video), then I'll continue to support their work. Once their agendas go into their work is when I decide to tune out. As for Destiny, can't say I'm a fan. I don't deny his ability to debate, but I would've at least preferred a more casual debate style instead of something akin to the chaotic debate style of a presidential primary. Not to mention he's had some controversial and even borderline "racist" thoughts on some topics in previous debates that I've watched as well. Perhaps both sides of the controversy coin just come from the heat of the moment, where one just isn't prepared enough or has enough time to fully articulate their opinion. As for what Jon can do, I'd say his best option is to just own up to it and apologize. Laying low won't help, and trying to defend his stance definitely won't help.[/QUOTE] What has Destiny said that's racist?

Destiny said that "blacks in general have lower iq and face more problems getting licenses" but taken out of context and spammed on reddit lol Seeing how the convo related to how it's because of the poor environments they've been moved into because of the past [editline]14th March 2017[/editline] Old Destiny used to be pretty bad tho long ago. But everyone grows up.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;51960455]When you're in the public eye (and with 3+ million subscribers, I'd say Jon is in the public eye), you have a responsibility to behave in a way that helps, rather than hinders, society. Expressing shitty opinions doesn't help. If his opinions are not fully formed or he's just uninformed or bad at explaining (which could be some or all of the issue, I don't know enough about this incident yet), then he should not be expressing them until he's thought about them longer and figured out to express them without sounding like he's being shitty.[/QUOTE] What you're forgetting here is perspective. No one views their own beliefs and opinions as "shitty", no one expresses opinions they themselves perceive as harmful to society, that sort of thing just doesn't happen or happens very rarely and in a specific sets of circumstances. There's, in fact, a very large chance that [i]they[/i] consider whichever opinion [i]you[/i] have or might have as shitty and harmful, and in the same way as you described, it becomes their responsibility to express their view to counter yours, at which point should you open your mouth you're immediately told to shut up and everyone's back to square one, more entrenched in their beliefs than before. So your idea about anyone with an influence having an obligation not to express shitty opinions flies right out the window and that's why it isn't the most popular view. I like the general intention behind it, but it's just not the sort of thing that works.

[QUOTE=Inspector N;51960436]Always knew Jontron was a down to earth fellow![/QUOTE] after digging such a massive hole I guess you could say that

[QUOTE=KillRay;51960650]Destiny said that "blacks in general have lower iq and face more problems getting licenses" but taken out of context and spammed on reddit lol Seeing how the convo related to how it's because of the poor environments they've been moved into because of the psst [editline]14th March 2017[/editline] Old Destiny used to be pretty bad tho long ago. But everyone grows up.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure he talks about that topic in this exact video. Like you would have to cherrypick pretty hard to not understand what he's saying.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51960591]hey remember when someone was posting this guy's videos [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/841757590405144576[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/841757930420637696[/media] what an enlightened intellectual[/QUOTE] wew [QUOTE=Tudd;51867746]I actually like Naked Ape though and want to share it with people. :v: [/QUOTE] It is sort of incredible that in a conversation about how colonialism benefited Africa and that immigration = white genocide someone could come out and look [B]even more[/B] like an asshole.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;51960873]That's absolutely no excuse. The idea that black people are genetically inferior isn't an unknown quantity, it's demonstrably false and has been proven so several times. Thinking that immigration could be tightened or loosened is an opinion, believing in white genocide, flat earth theory or climate change denial is being a reality denying fucktard.[/QUOTE] Well, first of all, I wasn't providing any excuse for anyone, last thing I would defend is overt racism, fuck that. Second of all, that's not even the point I was making, if there's a thought "I don't know enough facts about this, I should read more" going though a person's mind - then it's unlikely they're going to express their views. Hell, then it arguably can't even be called "views" or "beliefs". I'm not saying that there're no wrong opinions, make no mistake, I'm saying that you can't really expect someone to know that their opinion is wrong and they're doing shitty things.

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51956727]He deserves the "abuse". His thoughts are unacceptable, and the only reason I could see him coming out so open about them all of a sudden, is because he want to try to "redpill" his fans. Clearly that has backfired in a big way.[/QUOTE] People with differing ideas and opinions is unacceptable. -wafflemonstr 2017

To me, it's always the matter of not slipping down a slope. It's the matter of keeping empathy and that everyone is a human deserving of some matter of humanity in mind when considering matters of human conflict such as international relations or internal relations. When one slips away their empathy or forgets that they're made of the same materials as everyone else, they fall down that slope and it can be a challenge to go back up. If one is willing to change their preconceived notions to improve how they approach topics, then perhaps they can climb back up. Only a couple years ago I had lacked empathy on some topics and was fairly ignorant on some truths that showed shades of grey in conflict, it took conflicts and developments to grow out of it. Maybe it's some naive empathy, but I can only hope that people can grow to become better, but I try to focus on my own conflicts first.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51960859]wew It is sort of incredible that in a conversation about how colonialism benefited Africa and that immigration = white genocide someone could come out and look [B]even more[/B] like an asshole.[/QUOTE] But Colonialism did help out Africa, it turned to shit only when the Europeans were forced out.

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;51960961]But Colonialism did help out Africa, it turned to shit only when the Europeans were forced out.[/QUOTE] Please look up King Leopold the II of Brussels.

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;51960943]People with differing ideas and opinions is unacceptable. -wafflemonstr 2017[/QUOTE] When that opinion is "whites are superior to blacks", yes, fucking absolutely.

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;51960961]But Colonialism did help out Africa, it turned to shit only when the Europeans were forced out.[/QUOTE] Oh sweet merciful jesus you don't actually believe this do you? You only need to look at the Congo under Belgium to understand how terrible and awful colonialism is. Or hell, the whole of Africa. You want non African examples? Look at India under Britain. You want an example of how colonialism fucked an European country for centuries? You need only look at Ireland.

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;51960943]People with differing ideas and opinions is unacceptable. -wafflemonstr 2017[/QUOTE] Weren't you the guy who wanted to put mines across the mexican border

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51960988]Weren't you the guy who wanted to put mines across the mexican border[/QUOTE] And attack helicopters

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;51960961]But Colonialism did help out [B]europeans living in[/B] Africa, it turned to shit only when the Europeans [B]who ran the countries as borderline slave colonies[/B] were forced out.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;51960947]Yes I absolutely CAN expect someone to know their opinion is wrong, anyone who lives in the developed world from Jon Tron to you or me has near infinite access to information. No one is perfect, but I think it's not unreasonable at all that a fucking grown adult, especially one with a massive following who'll keep supporting him racist or not actually googles the incredibly important and touchy shit he to talks about. His job is the fucking internet, him having access to it as a matter of necessity and spewing racist pseudoscience biotruths is like a pilot claiming the sky isn't blue.[/QUOTE] Come on now, it's like you intentionally avoid my point. Maloof?'s post I was responding to was about responsibility to specifically [b]not express[/b] beliefs and views that are harmful, not about how or why these beliefs formed. Doing at least a minimum amount of research on a subject you're going to talk about is a given, it's a responsibility not only for people with some following, but just in general.

This thread is a wild ride start to finish. From "Jon just can't articulate points properly" to "Jon is literally a nazi I hope his career is dead" in a few short pages. I'm not defending or attacking either Destiny or Jon but man, most people here flipped opinions fast as hell.

[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51957296]18 minutes later, 9th beer. this dude's gone off the deep end. he's going to become ghost. [t]http://i.imgur.com/p1O4BE8.png[/t][/QUOTE] That reminds me of something - [URL=http://cubeupload.com/im/mKS0ud.png][IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/mKS0ud.png[/IMG][/URL]

I want badly to believe that his mistake was associating the current dominant US culture with the current majority race he says something along the lines of if, for example, blacks slowly became the majority over whites that it wouldn't diminish current US culture, but that a shock of immigration from other countries (mainly countries with majorities of US minorities) would have a very real impact on US culture I would get where he's coming from if he were talking about Ireland, Australia or the UK, countries with very high percentages of whites that have been majority white for pretty much their entire modern history (since rapid travel and communication), but I think it's a whole different thing when it comes to the US, which was founded on immigration I think he's half right, in that, in some imaginary scenario where we were to suddenly absorb the entire populations of, let's say, Egypt, South Korea, and Brazil, the US as a whole would be COMPLETELY unrecognizable overnight and I would argue that that would be a bad thing but trying to tie it to race is a pretty horrific argument

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51960985]When that opinion is "whites are superior to blacks", yes, fucking absolutely.[/QUOTE] So, what I think is funny about this is how Jon said "these are just fbi statistics" when referring to black crime vs white crime. I looked them up and of all reported crimes by nearly 12,000 (edit, originally said 300,000 as I was mis-remembering this part) agencies that provided information to the FBI in 2015, 70% of all arrests were white and around 26% were black. This is out of a sample size of about 295 million people. This is just arrests, and does not account for things like police calls or investigations or detaining in jail, confirmed arrests after reasonable investigation for a variety of crimes from robbery to rape and white collar crimes like fraud. In fact even the white collar crimes aka "what rich people would do", the reported statistics have whites in the lead. This is all directly from the FBI, it's publicly posted. Just Google it. I can understand thinking blacks are predisposed to crime considering that's all we ever hear about in the media, but what it really comes down to are socioeconomics. Whether it's true or not that blacks are predisposed due to their socioeconomic stature is up in the air. I wish I could find statistics on # of people detained (e.g. "I have probable cause, come down to the station with me), not arrested (e.g. "we have no doubts you committed this crime, you're going to jail), because I'd like to see ethnicity statistics on that. I think there have been some circumstances where African Americans have been painted in some pretty awful light, but well-deserved. Ferguson being a great example. I hated that situation because I don't like seeing people act like animals, and even if the overwhelming majority of people involved in Ferguson were white I'd still be pissed off about it. Ferguson didn't make me hate black people, but in the grand scheme of things I doubt it has helped them. The problem is this is what the world sees and if someone like Jon never bothered to really look into it but speaks as if it's fact, it's concerning. [URL="https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43"] link to statistics [/URL]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C63LbggU8AEPvae.jpg:large[/img]

[QUOTE=kittykaty;51961090][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C63LbggU8AEPvae.jpg:large[/img][/QUOTE] wot.

[QUOTE=kittykaty;51961090][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C63LbggU8AEPvae.jpg:large[/img][/QUOTE] as far as I know no one can find the actual source for this data

Its amazing what you can put on a .jpg and people will just go along with. (disclaimer; I have no horse in this race. I just find that we're up to page 23 wonderful.)

[QUOTE=kittykaty;51961125]Its amazing what you can put on a .jpg and people will just go along with. (disclaimer; I have no horse in this race. I just find that we're up to page 23 wonderful.)[/QUOTE] it probably isn't a good idea to go around spreading completely unverified information that purports itself to be fact