Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=RB33;51961739]Or he's not really sure that he believes it and has just been misled by the far-right? Should we assume he's a white nationalist at heart instead?[/QUOTE] he said multiple times that anyone who doesn't agree with him either doesn't go outside or is deluding themselves doesn't sound like the words of an unsure person to me

[QUOTE=RB33;51961739]Or he's not really sure that he believes in it and has just been misled by the far-right? Which I think is far more likely. Should we assume he's a white nationalist at heart instead?[/QUOTE] misled or not, I expect a 26 year old to be responsible for his own opinions

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961730]I'm sorry, all I remember is when he said non whites entering the US is still a problem even if they integrate because they'll enter the gene pool. Is there something I forgot?[/QUOTE] And he also said yes to the 100 million question, that tells me that he's unsure of what he is saying. The gene pool thing was terrible, regardless of he just read some racist theory on an alt-right website or tried to make a horribly inappropriate joke. We shouldn't only focus on the bad quotes, he said stuff that contradicted them as well. What we know for sure is that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961742]he said multiple times that anyone who doesn't agree with him either doesn't go outside or is deluding themselves doesn't sound like the words of an unsure person to me[/QUOTE] That is a problem. When one side of the argument is irrational, and pulling random bullshit out their ass, they're impossible to talk to.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51961751]misled or not, I expect a 26 year old to be responsible for his own opinions[/QUOTE] This is another thing people are so eager to defend him because they like him that they're actually excusing him and being like "No he doesn't mean it he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's just not good at articulating" Jon is not an innocent young bab, he's a 26 year old grown adult if he can't articulate his own fucking thoughts and opinions maybe he shouldn't be [I]thrusting himself in to the political sphere to begin with???[/I]

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;51960943]People with differing ideas and opinions is unacceptable. -wafflemonstr 2017[/QUOTE] Cinnamon "Geneva convention who needs that anyways" Bun Cinnamon "We should put attack helicoptors and mines across the border" Bun [QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;51959399]JonTron got on a talkshow about his political views and to many people came off as a racist. I'll try to summarize him as neutrally as possible, but it was a pretty long-winded and emotional debate full of side-tracking and etc etc you get the idea I tried my best: -summery-[/QUOTE] I have to say it looks like Jon is simply an unbelievably misinformed and misguided dude Don't know if I could consider him racist exactly but ignorant? Completely and tremendously

[QUOTE=LurkingKing;51961761]That is a problem. When one side of the argument is irrational, and pulling random bullshit out their ass, they're impossible to talk to.[/QUOTE] john's response to "if discrimination doesn't exist in america then what do you think about the south carolina voter ID laws that were struck down because it was found that they were designed to target black people" was "I don't want to hear it" His response to Destiny asking him "are poor black people more criminal than wealthy black people" was "did you know wealthy blacks are more criminal than poor whites? It's a fact. Look it up." I think it's pretty clear who's being irrational and pulling shit out of their ass in this discussion

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51961732]You're right people will disagree with you on this. I haven't called Jon a white nationalist but now that you mention it that's a pretty good word to describe him. Nobody is cherry picking Jon's quotes of that I can assure you. I really don't know why it's necessary to mention all the times Jon said "Minorities are fine...." when those same statements may as well be followed by "As long as they don't enter the gene pool"[/QUOTE] So you're using the bad quotes to reinforce your view that he's terrible without seeing the person behind it. He makes mistakes, everyone does. Anyone can at times be tricked into believing lies, maybe Jon more than most. We shouldn't assume the absolute worst of him, as some of you in this thread are doing.

[QUOTE=RB33;51961758]And he also said yes to the 100 million question, that tells me that he's unsure of what he is saying. The gene pool thing was terrible, regardless of he just read some racist theory on an alt-right website or tried to make a horribly inappropriate joke. We shouldn't only focus on the bad quotes, he said stuff that contradicted them as well. What we know for sure is that he doesn't know what he's talking about.[/QUOTE] you are thinking yourself into a pretzel trying to justify why he doesn't mean precisely what he said [editline]15th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51961779]So you're using the bad quotes to reinforce your view that he's terrible without seeing the person behind it. He makes mistakes, everyone does. Anyone can at times be tricked into believing lies, maybe Jon more than most. We shouldn't assume the absolute worst of him, as some of you in this thread are doing.[/QUOTE] so he DOES believe that blacks pollute the white gene pool

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961776]john's response to "if discrimination doesn't exist in america then what do you think about the south carolina voter ID laws that were struck down because it was found that they were designed to target black people" was "I don't want to hear it" His response to Destiny asking him "are poor black people more criminal than wealthy black people" was "did you know wealthy blacks are more criminal than poor whites? It's a fact. Look it up." I think it's pretty clear who's being irrational and pulling shit out of their ass in this discussion[/QUOTE] Yes, I'm aware. I was agreeing with you.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51961771]This is another thing people are so eager to defend him because they like him that they're actually excusing him and being like "No he doesn't mean it he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's just not good at articulating" Jon is not an innocent young bab, he's a 26 year old grown adult if he can't articulate his own fucking thoughts and opinions maybe he shouldn't be [I]thrusting himself in to the political sphere to begin with???[/I][/QUOTE] Didn't he state that he overestimated himself in how ready he was to enter that kind of environment ?

[QUOTE=LurkingKing;51961788]Yes, I'm aware. I was agreeing with you.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry man, I'm jumping at shadows now. This whole situation is really fucking with me.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961742]he said multiple times that anyone who doesn't agree with him either doesn't go outside or is deluding themselves doesn't sound like the words of an unsure person to me[/QUOTE] He wants to believe that he's right and still he can't argue why he is. Going back and forth between beliefs, I welcome him to clarify where he really stands without the alt-right arguments he's taken from other people. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51961751]misled or not, I expect a 26 year old to be responsible for his own opinions[/QUOTE] He is, I also expect people to not assume the absolute worst of others until proven without a doubt.

I have to wonder how people define racism if this kind of shit is merely 'misguided'. Racism is inherently misguided. Doesn't make it not racism.

[QUOTE=RB33;51961779]So you're using the bad quotes to reinforce your view that he's terrible without seeing the person behind it. He makes mistakes, everyone does. Anyone can at times be tricked into believing lies, maybe Jon more than most. We shouldn't assume the absolute worst of him, as some of you in this thread are doing.[/QUOTE] Racism itself is misinformation, dude. There is no racist in the world that hasn't been misled I don't think they should be coddled because of it and I don't think Jon should either. Understanding why people flock to these things is key to getting through to them, you're right. But your attitude comes off as dismissing responsibility entirely

[QUOTE=Rufia;51961804]I have to wonder how people define racism if this kind of shit is merely 'misguided'. Racism is inherently misguided. Doesn't make it not racism.[/QUOTE] A lot of people don't think racism is anything short of shouting nigger at a black person while setting a cross on fire in their front lawn.

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51961732]You're right people will disagree with you on this. I haven't called Jon a white nationalist but now that you mention it that's a pretty good word to describe him. Nobody is cherry picking Jon's quotes of that I can assure you. I really don't know why it's necessary to mention all the times Jon said "Minorities are fine...." when those same statements may as well be followed by "As long as they don't enter the gene pool"[/QUOTE] Just wanted to add that it's not really "may as well be followed by" when Jontron really said "but then they would enter the gene pool eventually..." Direct quote. :disappoint:

giving your political opinion online will pretty much always lead to discourse, no matter how "bad" or "good" your opinion is, you'll guaranteed split your audience because of it

[QUOTE=RB33;51961800]He wants to believe that he's right and still he can't argue why he is. Going back and forth between beliefs, I welcome him to clarify where he really stands without the alt-right arguments he's taken from other people. He is, I also expect people to not assume the absolute worst of others until proven without a doubt.[/QUOTE] do you think it's reasonable to conclude from this thread that I think what jon said is racist

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961782]you are thinking yourself into a pretzel trying to justify why he doesn't mean precisely what he said[/QUOTE] If he thinks really hard about if he thinks black people are inferior, what do you think his response will be? Hopefully, he realise that he has put too much trust into alt-right rhetoric. [QUOTE]so he DOES believe that blacks pollute the white gene pool[/QUOTE] He should clarify himself on that, he said too little for me to assume the worst of him.

[QUOTE=RB33;51961852]If he thinks really hard about if he thinks black people are inferior, what do you think his response will be? Hopefully, he realise he has put too much trust in alt-right rhetoric. He should clarify himself on that, he said too little for me to assume the worst of him.[/QUOTE] what more does he have to say to convince you that he thinks what he says he thinks

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51961815]Racism itself is misinformation, dude. There is no racist in the world that hasn't been misled I don't think they should be coddled because of it and I don't think Jon should either. Understanding why people flock to these things is key to getting through to them, you're right. But your attitude comes off as dismissing responsibility entirely[/QUOTE] He's responsible, there's no denying that. Assuming that he might be a white nationalist at heart is overdoing it. He isn't innocent, he isn't advocating for a white-only country either. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961850]do you think it's reasonable to conclude from this thread that I think what jon said is racist[/QUOTE] He did

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51961643][...] [...] It's the equivalent of saying that the world isn't "black and white" so you pick gray all the time. [...][/QUOTE] That's a pretty good summary, but as carcarcargo maybe pointed out it's probably not as much a matter of Boogie not being able to argue as much as him not [I]wanting[/I] to argue. I don't watch much of his content, but the impression I get is that not only is he so nice that he doesn't want to hurt people, he's so 'nice' that he doesn't even want to disagree with people whatsoever (even if that's sorely necessary). I remember some people (here or on Twitter, not sure) thought he had been 'redpilled' because he was on a stream with (among others) Sargon and apparently veered pretty far from his default position by just going along with everything uncritically.

[QUOTE=RB33;51961876]He's responsible, there's no denying that. Assuming that he might be a white nationalist at heart is overdoing it. He isn't innocent, he isn't advocating for a white-only country either.[/QUOTE] just a mostly white one [editline]15th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51961876]He did[/QUOTE] what I'm trying to get at here is that you're clearly accepting that I mean what I'm saying right now I don't see why you aren't willing to accept that jon meant what he said too

As much as Jon has fucked this up, I don't think people should feel bad about consuming his content. Lovecraft was 100% a horrible racist and people love his stuff.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;51961901]As much as Jon has fucked this up, I don't think people should feel bad about consuming his content. Lovecraft was 100% a horrible racist and people love his stuff.[/QUOTE] I mean it kinda simplifies things that his content only became popular after he died alone and in poverty

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961859]what more does he have to say to convince you that he thinks what he says he thinks[/QUOTE] Being coherent in his arguing, not laughing it off or agreeing that non-whites are fine at times. I want him to be clear when he says it. Not by seeming to be an uninformed person who got into alt-right circles and suddenly got to know the truth about the world. And is telling it without really thinking about it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51961905]I mean it kinda simplifies things that his content only became popular after he died alone and in poverty[/QUOTE] That's true but his beliefs still aren't exactly unknown

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51961691]I would say I'm pretty sure his mother must have been drinking heavily whilst pregnant with him. But that'd be offensive to the poor souls who do suffer from FAS. I do genuinely wonder how these guys have any friends sometimes.[/QUOTE] Well Sargon doesn't usually act hostile to his audience (emphasis on usually), be they a viewer or someone in his stream, so if you've deeply entrenched yourself in anti-SJW hysteria then you probably aren't going to notice anything wrong.

[QUOTE=RB33;51961908]Being coherent in his arguing, not laughing it off or agreeing that non-whites are fine at times. I want him to be clear when he says it. Not by seeming to be an uninformed person who got into alt-right circles and suddenly got to know the truth about the world. And is telling it without really thinking about it.[/QUOTE] why would he have to stop saying "non-whites are fine at times"? plenty of neo nazis who want to create a fucking white ethno state utopia would say the exact same thing, saying that doesn't mean anything