Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=paul simon;51971884]I don't entirely like the idea of him just going "I'm sorry", because what are the chances that's even genuine? He'd likely just say that to defend his image, not because his views have actually changed. I say he should just carry on making content, and instead learn from his mistake of being so vocal about his not-very-popular views.[/QUOTE] He would have to make a big donation to aclu or something, words wouldn't be enough.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51972138]He would have to make a big donation to aclu or something, words wouldn't be enough.[/QUOTE] Wow money can buy everything.

[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51972106]a lot of people are getting angry at the general public because they see sensationalistic headlines similar to pewdiepie's debacle, and stand with jontron because they've been under similar fire before. the problem is they aren't seeing the words he's actually fucking said.[/QUOTE] I've seen a lot of people just dismissing what Jon said as "the extreme left bullying another youtuber" and then their friends see that and less people watch it, but still move in to defend Jon

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51972138]He would have to make a big donation to aclu or something, words wouldn't be enough.[/QUOTE] Rather not go back to indulgences.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51971911]I'm honestly really concerned by high-profile people just going "Hey it's Jontron, he's still our friend why bully?" Sky had the best response, in essence "I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and stick by him for now because he's my buddy but if he's actually hardline on this shit, I can't in all good conscience keep being friends with him" Ignoring someone spreading shit like this, especially someone as respected amongst younger people as Jon has the effect of normalizing it, and thoughts like keeping mexicans out of the genepool and implications that black people are inherently more predisposed to crime while hiding behind "hey it's just facts" can't be allowed to become normal.[/QUOTE] Didn't sky talk with destiny and in that talk it's apparent sky didn't hear everything jontron said. His opinion might have changed since then

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51970093]The Ethiopia thing was Zach trying to defend Jon by throwing out a gotcha question. Him saying "would you be okay with Ethiopian culture being preserved if Ethiopia became 100 percent white". It was a dumb question that upon further explanation on the parameters by Zach implied that white people would basically go to Ethiopia and have lots of sex till the population was majority white. Basically breeding out black people while still retaining Ethiopian culture.[/QUOTE] So it's the same argument that Jon was trying to make. Like here's what they are harping on. [I]"Whites in the US are on the path to becoming a minority. When a white person has something bad to say about this they are called a racist. Meanwhile nobody expects Japan to become less Japanese and say majorly white and not speak a single word against it. And if you are fine with whites becoming the minority in America because non-whites are having more babies than whites while also assimilating/integrating you must be okay with Ethiopia becoming 100% white assuming Ethiopian culture is preserved or else it's HYPOCRISY! DOUBLE STANDARD! WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEIR SELF INTEREST WHILE OTHERS CAN!" [/I]Or something like that. I don't know why it's such a super major issue for him. [QUOTE=Primigenes;51970093]The gene pool comment is vague I'll admit. But like I said it's the context in which Jon was talking in which all the assumptions are being made right now. If he's fine with breeding between people of different skin colors then whats the point of Jon even mentioning gene pools. There are no positive associations that can be garnered from "Yeah, [B]but[/B] if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually and then, you know". Like what can be extrapolated from that statement with positive connotations from Jon's side of the argument? Then you have to consider the inevitable endgame of Jon's argument which because of the dumb shit he said makes everyone see further into the gene pool comment. Jon at like the 30 minute mark compares what is basically a result of legal migration to an invasion. He then states that when whites become a minority that people will not vote in the interest of white american interest. Basically scaring himself shitless about some kind of white genocide. He even tried to ask Destiny a gotcha question about African colonization. Saying white people are encroaching on African land. Like yeah the gene pool comment is vague but Jon's arguments create no positive or even neutral association that can be made. The end game that I spoke of earlier for an argument like Jon's would be to basically have America be a white ethnostate. Honestly I don't know what more to say. The gene pool comment is vague but it doesn't lend itself that can be considered to be positive.[/QUOTE] Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he's not a racist. He clearly associates ideas/standards/behavior with race. There's no argument there. The only argument I'm making is that he's not against "racemixing" and that we should be fair, lets not make shit up. And now to the argument itself. You are taking all the other repugnant shit he said as context to vaguely using the word "genepool" and based on that context you're assuming it couldn't have been used in any other way as to say it's a bad thing. However if you look at what he says after using the word "genepool" [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&feature=youtu.be&t=3731[/URL] he says that people would be free to marry "between races" like it's no problem. Based on this I'm assuming that when he used the word "genepool" he wasn't talking about "polluting the genepool" or something. I think (just like Destiny thought) that Jon was about to make an argument that the "brown people" would assimilate then in turn enter the genepool and become "less brown" or some other abhorrent thing that he even couldn't utter out because he knew it was a terrible thing to say. Now again I'm not saying it would be an okay thing to say. I'm not saying he's not a racist. I'm simply saying he's not against "racemixing".

[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;51971798]i'm beginning to think he's worse than leafy tbh[/QUOTE] NakedApe is closer to Keemstar than Leafy in terms of the kind of shit he's willing to pull to trashtalk someone. Leafy is just some rancid, childish cunt who likes to pretend he's the master of burns and sick bantz. For all the stupidity and garbage he's spewed I don't think he's ever legitimately jumped at someone's throat as hard as keemstar or nakedape have.

I don't see how keeping america white keeps the culture tho, American culture isn't just white culture, right?

[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;51973376]I don't see how keeping america white keeps the culture tho, American culture isn't just white culture, right?[/QUOTE] I don't understand how can you keep American culture when there isn't one. Jokes aside, the culture has been mostly influenced by whites coming from europe. It's not just white, but the biggest part of it is.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51972732]NakedApe is closer to Keemstar than Leafy in terms of the kind of shit he's willing to pull to trashtalk someone. Leafy is just some rancid, childish cunt who likes to pretend he's the master of burns and sick bantz. For all the stupidity and garbage he's spewed I don't think he's ever legitimately jumped at someone's throat as hard as keemstar or nakedape have.[/QUOTE] I'll say Naked Ape could be worse. Keem can at least be respectful and mature in interviews like in his H3H3 one. Keem's still awful but at least he's able to switch off dickhead mode when he wants to.

almost unrelated but destiny is about to bring Sargon on for another discussion if anyone is interested: [url]https://www.twitch.tv/destiny[/url] he's talking about NakedApe right now

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51973389]I don't understand how can you keep American culture when there isn't one. Jokes aside, the culture has been mostly influenced by whites coming from europe. It's not just white, but the biggest part of it is.[/QUOTE] This is not directed at you, just in general. This thing that culture is racial, it isn't. Even if people doesn't mean it, they shouldn't say it. It's not culture coming from whites, it's coming from Europeans. Not every European have been considered "white" through history, especially when they came to the US. Usually more peoples than Europeans are considred white too (Arabs among some others). The end result is that white is a meaningless term unless speaking about US-specific culture. So since white can refer to other peoples as well, so if you're specifically talking about Ango-Saxon whatever, that will be confusing. European culture och Western culture would be better names with a more narrow definition.

When was the time that arabs were referred to as whites?

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51973545]When was the time that arabs were referred to as whites?[/QUOTE] They are listed as white on the US population census, if I recall correctly.

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51973904]Sargon is an idiot. Nobody wants to be a fucking construction worker.[/QUOTE] Working class people probably do, if they don't think that higher educated jobs fit them.

Sargon and Destiny debate [video]https://youtu.be/j_y7ZZmYVPA[/video]

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51973904]Sargon is an idiot. Nobody wants to be a fucking construction worker.[/QUOTE] You really should go and ask people their opinion who actually work these jobs. I once shadowed a Four Seasons for a university project and we talked to the groundskeepers about what they thought about their work, and from their position of being recent immigrants, they were very satisfied with their job and what future it offered their children by having a steady income they didn't have before. I mean really, you might not believe it, but go watch Dirty Jobs or other documentaries on trade workers. People can thoroughly enjoy a trade job that you wouldn't enjoy because their background/situation is nothing like yours.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51973931] I once shadowed a Four Seasons for university project and we talked to the groundskeepers about what they thought about their work, and from their position of being recent [b]immigrants[/b], they were [/QUOTE] thats it im triggered

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51973941]thats it im triggered[/QUOTE] Nothing wrong with legal immigrants.

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51973904]Sargon is an idiot. Nobody wants to be a fucking construction worker.[/QUOTE] Destiny's pretty fucking retarded and misunderstands points constantly this stream. Sargon is not saying "poor people" so destiny keeps thinking sargon is talking about the rich. Why isn't destiny using the study he had yesterday?

I've met plenty of people that enjoy being farmers. Not everyone hates working with their hands.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51973931]You really should go and ask people their opinion who actually work these jobs. I once shadowed a Four Seasons for a university project and we talked to the groundskeepers about what they thought about their work, and from their position of being recent immigrants, they were very satisfied with their job and what future it offered their children by having a steady income they didn't have before. I mean really, you might not believe it, but go watch Dirty Jobs or other documentaries on trade workers. People can thoroughly enjoy a trade job that you wouldn't enjoy because their background/situation is nothing like yours.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm sure tons of people want to work and actively wish to stay in debilitating jobs that causes their bodies to physically break down, and not having enough to make their family truly happy, but just survive I'm sure many of them enjoy it even more when they work overtime without pay. Dirty Jobs isn't really representative of reality in entirety. It's an optimistic view of the better dirty jobs. [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51974075]I've met plenty of people that enjoy being farmers. Not everyone hates working with their hands.[/QUOTE] Someone in my family makes a solid hunk of money fixing locomotives and cast metal Enjoys the travel and work, hates the company he works for

Destiny defending sweatshops being an improvement for the third world...

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51974063]Yes I too am happy to have a Job as a janitor which gives me money to provide for my family. Just like my Dad was happy upon immigration to at least be capable of working as a security guard to provide for us. People are happy that they can fucking survive. Nobody ASPIRES, HENCE THE WORD "WANTS" TO ACTUALLY BE A CONSTRUCTION WORKER. I can enjoy a trade job it doesn't mean I want a trade job. I don't wake up in the morning look at my prospects and decide amongst all of them that I want to be a construction worker.[/QUOTE] Good to know you speak for every construction worker lol. Plenty of people want trade jobs or physical jobs in general. Hell most of my friends unload fish from boats for 12+ hours a day and they love it. [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] Got friends that are carpenters as well and they absolutely love it, it's something they've wanted to do since they can remember

Ive been enjoying Destiny and all but he's being a total fucking prick to Psychicpebbles, jesus christ.

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51973904]Sargon is an idiot. Nobody wants to be a fucking construction worker.[/QUOTE] You never meant my dad and grandpa then

I don't know why I got boxes for that other post. Destiny had a fundamental misunderstanding when sargon told him that neo liberalism or whatever led to donald trump and interpreted it as sargon saying destiny supported trump's policies. Then he said things like "net benefit" where he meant "net benefit that yes, improves the conditions of the poor"

[QUOTE=RB33;51974113]Destiny defending sweatshops being an improvement for the third world...[/QUOTE] I'm not watching the debate or whatever it is but often times sweatshops are an upgrade from the barely subsistence levels of farming that people in third world countries partake in.

Like destiny had something with the china part and he just let it go. The rising and expanding chinese middle class could've been a great example of the economic benefits and redistribution and reskilling/retooling of a social class but instead destiny went on about something else while Sargon only talked about sweatshops.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51974279]I'm not watching the debate or whatever it is but often times sweatshops are an upgrade from the barely subsistence levels of farming that people in third world countries partake in.[/QUOTE] Fair point. Just wish Destiny was consistent and more comprehensive with his statements. Going from "Nobody wants to be a construction worker!!" to sweatshops being a positive thing in 3rd world countries. Sargon has really taken him through the ringer.