Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51976669] One last godwin before he finally stops for now. God damn, this guy seemed cool at first but he's managed to bury himself [B]deeper than anyone else thus far.[/B] (Naked Ape doesn't count, he was already at rock bottom)[/QUOTE] I do want to say that arguing with animators doesn't seem like as deep of a hole as the white nationalism one but [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51976773]Let me jog your memory if you don't remember much Anyway let's not derail the thread with broteam vids lol[/QUOTE] I've never seen this video

[QUOTE=KillRay;51976780]I do want to say that arguing with animators doesn't seem like as deep of a hole as the white nationalism one but[/QUOTE] Arguing with animators may not be as low a starting point as white nationalism but he sure as hell made up for it with what followed Jontron actually had the decency to step away from social media and has yet to reappear.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51976780]I do want to say that arguing with animators doesn't seem like as deep of a hole as the white nationalism one but[/QUOTE] He's talking about how childish and infantile he acted during all of this, yes Jontron's opinions was really too far but he knew when to shut up and realize the absolute mistake he did. On the other hand if you go through the entire thread you'll see how absolutely childish destiny acted, almost like a temper tantrum. The moment he started going on about personal issues such as source of income is the moment he stopped arguing and went down into this massive spiral of childish tweet posts and being incredibly angry on his stream. if you sort of want a little sample of his childness, well [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tGQeXSZ.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51976818]Arguing with animators may not be as low a starting point as white nationalism but he sure as hell made up for it with what followed Jontron actually had the decency to step away from social media and has yet to reappear.[/QUOTE] Shitposting on Twitter is as bad to you as speaking white nationalist views? Like shit dude is rather deal with some argumentative dude then someone who thinks browns ruin the gene pool [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51976841]He's talking about how childish and infantile he acted during all of this, yes Jontron's opinions was really too far but he knew when to shut up and realize the absolute mistake he did. On the other hand if you go through the entire thread you'll see how absolutely childish destiny acted, almost like a temper tantrum. The moment he started going on about personal issues such as source of income is the moment he stopped arguing and went down into this massive spiral of childish tweet posts and being incredibly angry on his stream. if you sort of want a little sample of his childness, well [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tGQeXSZ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] I follow him on Twitter I already saw a lot of it. Being snarky and shitposting. Nothing I don't see on this forum already.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51976842]Shitposting on Twitter is as bad to you as speaking white nationalist views?[/QUOTE] Literally the opposite of what I said.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51976842] I follow him on Twitter I already saw a lot of it. Being snarky and shitposting. Nothing I don't see on this forum already.[/QUOTE] If someone shitposted as bad as Destiny on Facepunch they would have been banned by flaming and shitposting with no second thought.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51976852]Literally the opposite of what I said.[/QUOTE] "Made up for it" seemed to me like you put them on equal levels

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51976796]funny how everyone involved in this is a huge cunt[/QUOTE] I still don't see how Sargon is at fault here, unless you weren't including him in your statement. So far all I have so far against him is: [QUOTE=rilez;51975436][QUOTE=Tudd;51975398]I mean surely you can recognize that the guy is way more cordial than both Destiny or Naked Ape?[/QUOTE] He's slightly more composed but that doesn't make him good. Some of his videos are okay??? I still see him shitpost on Twitter just like the rest.[/QUOTE] Which is not an argument against him given that just about everyone on the internet shitposts. Sargon makes an effort to seperate his shitposts from his actual presentations of his views, and so we can seperate the two. His debate with Destiny not only was cordial, but it seems Sargon actually managed to facilitate the discussion so as to draw out the key important aspects. The other thing people object to is Sargon's point about there being a correlation between marriage and financial success to the point that it is a practice that, if encouraged, would benefit social groups which have problems with poverty and single-parenthood. That in of itself is a difficult discussion, but it isn't clearly batshit in any way.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51976864]If someone shitposted as bad as Destiny on Facepunch they would have been banned by flaming and shitposting with no second thought.[/QUOTE] If someone posted what Jon said, they'd be permaed. Like I said, shitposting and being snarky doesn't make someone an awful human being in my eyes. Being a racist does.

I don't understand why so much attention is being given to Destiny right now. Like sure, he's arguing with animators and being an ass, but these type of arguments are happening all the time on Twitter and people are always making asses of themselves... If the controversial debate between Destiny and Jon hadn't happened, we wouldn't be having this huge discussion on silly Destiny twitter arguments.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51976867]"Made up for it" seemed to me like you put them on equal levels[/QUOTE] No I'm saying Destiny made a worse outcome out of a pettier situation.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51976881]No I'm saying Destiny made a worse outcome out of a pettier situation.[/QUOTE] It didn't help that he was trying to make the discussion about YT content in general, but the animators continued to focus solely on animation as content.

[QUOTE=shadow_oap;51976877]I don't understand why so much attention is being given to Destiny right now. Like sure, he's arguing with animators and being an ass, but these type of arguments are happening all the time on Twitter and people are always making asses of themselves... If the controversial debate between Destiny and Jon hadn't happened, we wouldn't be having this huge discussion on silly Destiny twitter arguments.[/QUOTE] because being told art and animation isn't a real job is fucking infuriating and happens way too much, and when you dedicate yourself to that shit it makes those claims only worse, so obviously artists and animators are going to be pretty sensitive to pretty much anybody saying stuff like destiny's saying, especially if they're on the spotlight like he is right now.

christ can they all just shut the fuck up on all outlets of social media, I unfollowed literally all of the sleepycabin crew besides Stamper because he's the only one not fucking ruining my twitter feed with this nonsensical fucking dumpster fire. Holy hell. Stop already.

[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51976887]It didn't help that he was trying to make the discussion about YT content in general, but the animators continued to focus solely on animation as content.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm having some doubts getting that from some of his last tweets ie this shit [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842907459450814468[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842902924615438336[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842900822216400896[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842898481509470208[/media] I'm not seeing the "let's talk about the whole of YT instead" part. He didn't try to acknowledge his mistake, or any faults in his logic. He didn't even try to correct himself. He just dug deeper and resorted to namecalling, strawmanning and pointless buffoonery. He just couldn't find an easy way out of a legitimate fuckup without admitting having made a mistake so he just resorted to rancid shitposting. This is what a child does when they lose an argument, it's the twitter equivalent of repeating words with a sillier voice. He even went ahead and [url=https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842877527576248320]weaponized a tweet by Arin Hanson[/url] in which he was not directly cited, digging around the dirt to randomly belittle people that had so very little to do with the conversation.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51976903]because being told art and animation isn't a real job is fucking infuriating and happens way too much, and when you dedicate yourself to that shit it makes those claims only worse, so obviously artists and animators are going to be pretty sensitive to pretty much anybody saying stuff like destiny's saying, especially if they're on the spotlight like he is right now.[/QUOTE] I never said the people arguing with him on Twitter were wrong. I completely understand their point of view.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51976876]If someone posted what Jon said, they'd be permaed. Like I said, shitposting and being snarky doesn't make someone an awful human being in my eyes. Being a racist does.[/QUOTE] I don't know if I wanna agree with you. Jontron has an awful shitty opinion, yes. But you know, Destiny has showed us that he was responsible for someone's suicide and has leaked a girl's nudes before (along with this [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/299785-removing-destiny-from-featured[/url]). So I ask, who do you consider to be most awful human being, an idiot with a badly-structured racist opinion or someone responsible for a suicide while simultaneously having multiple cases of abusing woman?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51976930]Yeah I'm having some doubts getting that from some of his last tweets ie this shit *Tweet shitposts* I'm not seeing the "let's talk about the whole of YT" instead. He didn't try to acknowledge his mistake, or any faults in his logic. He didn't even try to correct himself. He just dug deeper and resorted to namecalling, strawmanning and pointless buffoonery. He just couldn't find an easy way out of a legitimate fuckup without admitting having made a mistake so he just resorted to rancid shitposting. This is what a child does when they lose an argument, it's the twitter equivalent of repeating words with a sillier voice.[/QUOTE] He did somewhere in the chain say that he was talking about YT content creation. The animators were trying to make the case that YT isn't viable for animation as a source of income because of the time, work and creativity required for producing an end product of that medium. That wasn't his point. He was trying to make the case that from a business perspective, given he was talking about YT content creation (not specifically about animation), that it would make sense to make content outside of animation in the interim to make a channel viable. This isn't him saying "lazy animators, why do you only make 4 videos a year?" His outburst is childish, but I can empathise given that the animators tried to make the issue about animation, and that he was attacking that - so, he went on to ironic shitpost about animators. Kind of hard to discuss something when the other party won't actually discuss it. He looks like an idiot for taking it so far, but it wasn't entirely without prompt from others.

Well a part of professionalism is knowing when to stop, and that point is [I]way[/I] before you start editing pictures of graphs on paint to strawman the shit out of an opposing opinion. The problem is that his childish outbursts just fucks up his credibility to a significant degree, and it makes it difficult to respond to a point regarding someone's livelihood and occupation when they're busy awkwardly laughing it off with dank twitter memes and half-assed bantz. It's difficult to even take it seriously, like why would you even listen to someone talk about money and professions when they're acting this way. If you can't handle being able to discuss with someone who disagrees without going into turbo-shitposting mode as soon as you can't get a point across, then you're better off taking the Total Biscuit route and completely sever yourself from social media, because clearly you don't have the maturity and professionalism to handle it without becoming an angry, bitter laughing stock.

[QUOTE=Asaratha;51976915]when did he state its not a real job?[/QUOTE] alright you got me on that, but he did downplay what being an animator is like and ignored the more serious effects, the negatives of the lifestyle, and just how hard it is to make a living off of it, because we don't break our bones or some stupid shit. [QUOTE=shadow_oap;51976935]I never said the people arguing with him on Twitter were wrong. I completely understand their point of view.[/QUOTE] i know, i was mostly just explaining why this is getting so much more attention rather than the jontron stuff.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51976962]Well a part of professionalism is knowing when to stop, and that point is [I]way[/I] before you start editing pictures of graphs on paint to strawman the shit out of an opposing opinion. If you can't handle being able to discuss with someone who disagrees without going into turbo-shitposting mode as soon as you can't get a point across, then you're better off taking the Total Biscuit route and completely sever yourself from social media, because clearly you don't have the maturity and professionalism to handle it without becoming an angry, bitter laughing stock.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but the animator tirade brought up Destiny's personal story about his friend's suicide that he disclosed with his community. Professionalism isn't in the court of either party here.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51976949]I don't know if I wanna agree with you. Jontron has an awful shitty opinion, yes. But you know, Destiny has showed us that he was responsible for someone's suicide and has leaked a girl's nudes before (along with this [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/299785-removing-destiny-from-featured[/url]). So I ask, who do you consider to be most awful human being, an idiot with a badly-structured racist opinion or someone responsible for a suicide while simultaneously having multiple cases of abusing woman?[/QUOTE] That teamliquid thread is a classic. I'm even in it thank you for reminding me of it

Don't think I posted this here: [video=youtube;t6PX4jX22zg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6PX4jX22zg[/video] I'll be making a short sequel in reference to Destiny's latest comments soon.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51976972]alright you got me on that, but he did downplay what being an animator is like and ignored the more serious effects, the negatives of the lifestyle, and just how hard it is to make a living off of it, because we don't break our bones or some stupid shit.[/QUOTE] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842850917036650501[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842853142404521984[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842853199698673664[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/OmniDestiny/status/842853293432877056[/media]

Jeez I've been busy his week and suddenly destiny is shitposting like crazy on his twitter and animators hate him or something? I always enjoy watching these kinds of shit storms as a reminder to never get into one myself personally, or at least approach it with the idea of learning and self criticizing based on responses. Something everyone involved in it right seems to be lacking.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51976903]because being told art and animation isn't a real job is fucking infuriating and happens way too much, and when you dedicate yourself to that shit it makes those claims only worse, so obviously artists and animators are going to be pretty sensitive to pretty much anybody saying stuff like destiny's saying, especially if they're on the spotlight like he is right now.[/QUOTE] Yeah but come on man. People were saying shit like the only difference between manual labor and art is that one is "physically demanding" and the other is "mentally demanding". Like that's just straight up delusional. The thing is, yeah, making money doing animation on youtube is hard. But if Psychicpebbles [I]really[/I] wanted to, there're a shitton of ways he could turn his massive audience into easy money. He isn't at risk of ever being forced into hard labor to survive. He isn't at the bottom of society with no easy way up. So when his response to Destiny saying "I want to grow the economy so that more people have a chance to move out of these shit jobs to higher paying positions" is "well my family loved doing blue collar work, plenty of people love doing manual labor for their entire lives", of course destiny gets mad. It's easy to say the opportunity for advancement isn't that important when you aren't FORCED to work laying bricks for the rest of your foreseeable life. It's easy to say that increased purchasing power doesn't matter when you're not up against the wall and struggling to get by.

[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51976976]Yeah, but the animator tirade brought up Destiny's personal story about his friend's suicide that he disclosed with his community. Professionalism isn't in the court of either party here.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/w1dzv/i_am_steven_bonnell_ii_amaa/[/url] He mentioned his personal story on an AMAA on his own subreddit. It's pretty much not personal anymore, rather public if you ask me. Also physicpebbles brought that up as a point, Destiny often calls others to kill themselves in their streams to this day, including a 16 year old Romanian boy. Which seems really shitty because his own friend killed himself because of that, and he just doesn't really care.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51976949]I don't know if I wanna agree with you. Jontron has an awful shitty opinion, yes. But you know, Destiny has showed us that he was responsible for someone's suicide and has leaked a girl's nudes before (along with this [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/299785-removing-destiny-from-featured[/url]). So I ask, who do you consider to be most awful human being, an idiot with a badly-structured racist opinion or someone responsible for a suicide while simultaneously having multiple cases of abusing woman?[/QUOTE] Anyway yeah Destiny is a commie man hater who kills white men and leaks nudes etc etc He shared those nudes with 2 friends (still not right but it's overblown), he's drunk in that TL thread pic, like hammered as shit, and I literally don't remember the suicide one. Refresh my memory.

[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51976976]Yeah, but the animator tirade brought up Destiny's personal story about his friend's suicide that he disclosed with his community. Professionalism isn't in the court of either party here.[/QUOTE] They brought it up to establish Destiny's own hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection. It only came up after PsychicPebbles was told to [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticReliableSamosaKappaRoss]kill himself[/url]. They didn't randomly bring it up in the middle of the conversation like "hey btw Destiny I heard you caused your friend to die isn't that some shit", it was brought up for a reason, after Destiny went ballistic on him. It basically furthered showed that Destiny was being a hypocritical baby.

meanwhile jon hasn't said a single thing since the debate. crazy how these things spread