Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977011]Anyway yeah Destiny is a commie man hater who kills white men and leaks nudes etc etc He shared those nudes with 2 friends (still not right but it's overblown), he's drunk in that TL thread pic, like hammered as shit, and I literally don't remember the suicide one. Refresh my memory.[/QUOTE] Any of those things don't excuse the other. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7KVvHwU8AMgQwu.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51977009][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/w1dzv/i_am_steven_bonnell_ii_amaa/[/url] He mentioned his personal story on an AMAA on his own subreddit. It's pretty much not personal anymore, rather public if you ask me. Also physicpebbles brought that up as a point, Destiny often calls others to kill themselves in their streams to this day, including a 16 year old Romanian boy. Which seems really shitty because his own friend killed himself because of that, and he just doesn't really care.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]He was busted by the police for possession of marijuana. He was kind of a bum; he had no car, wasn't going to school, had no job and was still living with his parents. When he got hit for the ticket, he had no way to pay it and did a serious re-evaluation of where he was in life. He decided he wasn't going anywhere and that he'd just commit suicide to end it all. I remember we talked a bit about it, but at the end of all of the conversations I told him that it was his choice and that I wouldn't call anyone or tell anyone else about it because he should have had the final say in what he wanted to do with his[/QUOTE] How's he fucking responsible for this Suicide? What the fuck [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] Like he's not wrong it is his friends choice.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977011]Anyway yeah Destiny is a commie man hater who kills white men and leaks nudes etc etc[/quote] Also hard to take you seriously when you go directly into strawmen but what else is new [QUOTE=KillRay;51977011]He shared those nudes with 2 friends (still not right but it's overblown), he's drunk in that TL thread pic, like hammered as shit, and I literally don't remember the suicide one. Refresh my memory.[/QUOTE] [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7KVvHwU8AMgQwu.jpg:large[/img] TL;DR he enabled a friend of his to have suicide instead of trying to talk him out of it, claims to have regretted it, but then tells a stranger to kill themselves on live stream. [QUOTE=KillRay;51977019]How's he fucking responsible for this Suicide? What the fuck [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] Like he's not wrong it is his friends choice.[/QUOTE] I don't know the decent thing to do when someone's trying to fucking kill themselves on an irrational thought is to try and talk them out of it instead of further enabling them ?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977023]Also hard to take you seriously when you go directly into strawmen but what else is new [/QUOTE] Actually that's me quoting a tweet Destiny put out. I posted it earlier in the thread. It's what he said when someone @ him calling him a friend killer and a pedo [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977023] I don't know the decent thing to do when someone's trying to fucking kill themselves on an irrational thought is to try and talk them out of it instead of further enabling them ?[/QUOTE] You seriously don't think there was no other conversational build up with his best friend that led to the final conversation?

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977026]Actually that's me quoting a tweet Destiny put out. I posted it earlier in the thread. It's what he said when someone @ him calling him a friend killer and a pedo[/QUOTE] Okay so you're parroting a guy who's acting like a shitposting moron without citing, using quotation marks, or putting any form of indication that these words aren't yours. What did you think would happen ?

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51977009][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/w1dzv/i_am_steven_bonnell_ii_amaa/[/url] He mentioned his personal story on an AMAA on his own subreddit. It's pretty much not personal anymore, rather public if you ask me. Also physicpebbles brought that up as a point, Destiny often calls others to kill themselves in their streams to this day, including a 16 year old Romanian boy. Which seems really shitty because his own friend killed himself because of that, and he just doesn't really care.[/QUOTE] There's a big difference between disclosing a personal story with your own community, and someone bringing it up in the far more public domain of Twitter for purpose of a gotcha. As far as telling people to kill themselves, I feel this is very much a matter of subjectivity. Being personally targeted is understandably terrible, but if anyone has seen his content, he has said that to plenty of people in his chat. He continues to say it when people spout abuse at him or write deliberately baity or poor argued statements. It's been said enough times that it doesn't hold much weight. For me personally, I hear things that are quite common place in speech that should be interpreted as terrible, but I don't take offence. Phrases like "That nearly gave me a heart attack," or "wow, that gave me an aneurysm." I've had family members who have nearly died of both, and maybe because they haven't died I don't feel so bad about these phrases being used, but I see a parallel with the "kill yourself" thing.

Even Destiny feels he is responsible for his friends suicide. Someone telling you they are going to kill themselves is a cry for help, so get him help. Don't tell him it's okay to kill himself.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977026]You seriously don't think there was no other conversational build up with his best friend that led to the final conversation?[/QUOTE] They don't matter when the last thing he said and decided to disclose with everyone else is how he promised his friend he would do absolutely nothing to prevent him from killing himself. He literally, explicitly stated that he would let it happen - and he let it happen.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51977040]Even Destiny feels he is responsible for his friends suicide. Someone telling you they are going to kill themselves is a cry for help, so get him help. Don't tell him it's okay to kill himself.[/QUOTE] There's a big difference in telling his friend to kill himself and " I told him that it was his choice and that I wouldn't call anyone or tell anyone else" Because in the end, it was his friends choice. I've had a friend who had all the outreach from others in the world still kill themselves, because in the end it's what they decided they wanted to do.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977019]How's he fucking responsible for this Suicide? What the fuck [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] Like he's not wrong it is his friends choice.[/QUOTE] Legally in the U.S. I don't think destiny would be liable for the suicide unless there were specific circumstances. But because he was told by a friend that he was going to commit suicide, he was morally responsible to call for help which he failed to do.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977052]There's a big difference in telling his friend to kill himself and " I told him that it was his choice and that I wouldn't call anyone or tell anyone else" Because in the end, it was his friends choice. I've had a friend who had all the outreach from others in the world still kill themselves, because in the end it's what they decided they wanted to do.[/QUOTE] He's still responsible. His friend could have been very sick mentally and had he got the help he needed he could still be here.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977050]They don't matter when the last thing he said and decided to disclose with everyone else is how he promised his friend he would do absolutely nothing to prevent him from killing himself. He literally, explicitly stated that he would let it happen - and he let it happen.[/QUOTE] Again, there could have been prevention done before that. We don't know the whole history of the situation

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977050]They don't matter when the last thing he said and decided to disclose with everyone else is how he promised his friend he would do absolutely nothing to prevent him from killing himself. He literally, explicitly stated that he would let it happen - and he let it happen.[/QUOTE] People make dumb fucking choices sometimes. I don't think he shared this story with everyone with the intent to show how he's a cold motherfucker who lets people kill themselves like a boss.

[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51976998]tweets[/QUOTE] that's not really what i'm talking about. like no shit you'll have to get other jobs (assuming you're[I] just[/I] being supported by youtube alone), but the way income from youtube works is so obviously flawed that it's more youtube's fault then the artist for not making enough money to provide a stable income, and they sure as hell shouldn't be berated for complaining about an absolutely shit system, which is the impression i'm getting from him. the point isn't really that they have to do another job (in fact, quite a few of them do, either that or they go to patreon), it's just that youtube's system is so needlessly stupid and impacts a lot of people.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51977063]People make dumb fucking choices sometimes. I don't think he shared this story with everyone with the intent to show how he's a cold motherfucker who lets people kill themselves like a boss.[/QUOTE] The point of people bringing this up is, despite letting this happening and regretting it, he's still telling others to kill themselves, sometimes in oddly specific, aggressive detail.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977019]How's he fucking responsible for this Suicide? What the fuck [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] Like he's not wrong it is his friends choice.[/QUOTE] You're kinda fucked up. You do realize he enabled someone into suicide? if a loved one came for you crying and wanting to kill himself, would you rather help them throughout or decide they should think for themselves, that it's their choice and that they can kill themselves? It's basically giving a greenlight to your suicidal friend to actually do it, and he did. It's something cold and shitty to do and even Destiny agrees, despite still telling others to kill themselves on the stream. Makes me depressed that people die because of this awful shitty mindset.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51977052]There's a big difference in telling his friend to kill himself and " I told him that it was his choice and that I wouldn't call anyone or tell anyone else" Because in the end, it was his friends choice. I've had a friend who had all the outreach from others in the world still kill themselves, because in the end it's what they decided they wanted to do.[/QUOTE] Do you understand how irrational suicidal thoughts can be ? Do you understand the point of confirmation bias ? If you're irrational and think "hey I should kill myself it's the only way out" and some bloke tells you "it's your decision I won't get in your way" then chances are you'll just be entrenched in your irrationality and go for it. He [I]is[/I] responsible. He [I]acknowledged[/I] he is responsible. There is no doubt he is. The problem is with how hypocritical he is with the story, as demonstrated by his prominent use of "kill yourself" as an insult.

This is like if David Duke debated Valerie Solanas, and for some reason everyone is picking a side one way or the other. Like... maybe they're both actually super shitty people?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51977063]People make dumb fucking choices sometimes. I don't think he shared this story with everyone with the intent to show how he's a cold motherfucker who lets people kill themselves like a boss.[/QUOTE] I doubt he did, but it's fucking stupid to try and claim he totally wasn't responsible when even he accepted how responsible he was, directly or indirectly. This is barely above arguing semantics. The point that he's hypocritical as fuck is still there.

tbh I understand regretting telling a suicidal "That its their choice" and people make mistakes, he isn't less human for making a mistake and I respect that but to deal with that and then turn around and tell someone to kill themselves shows that you are a cold mother fucker and deserve to be bashed 100% for it That's not even slightly OK in any context. If you're going to complain about people bringing that fact up then why the fuck did you tell someone to kill themselves out of no where in the first place.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51977074]The point of people bringing this up is, despite letting this happening and regretting it, he's still telling others to kill themselves, sometimes in oddly specific, aggressive detail.[/QUOTE] you're not going to find me arguing that destiny isn't an asshole I just don't think it's necessarily contradictory to both think you fucked up by not intervening in your best friends' suicide and tell people to kill themselves when you're trading insults over the internet

Maybe Destiny tells people to off themselves as a defense/coping mechanism of some sort? I dunno this is just me playing armchair psychiatrist. If someone knows more about this then please correct me.

This is so dumb. It's clearly a thing that he regrets incredibly deeply and guilt-tripping him for it is absolutely pathetic. Whether he is or isnt responsible for his friends death is impossible to know for sure and it doesnt fucking matter.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51977094]This is so dumb. It's clearly a thing that he regrets incredibly deeply and guilt-tripping him for it is absolutely pathetic. Whether he is or isnt responsible for his friends death is impossible to know for sure and it doesnt fucking matter.[/QUOTE] Its not that what he did back then is wrong its that that happened and he still told someone to 'kill themself' Yeah, kind of fair to remind him why he shouldn't be the one to say that. It makes it seem like he doesn't actually care at all.

I started watching destiny about 4 months ago, mostly for the political memes, but also with basically anything non game related (I don't like LoL). One of the more interesting things he talks about is money and leveraging what you have to earn you more. My position here is that yeah Destiny is kind of a dick and goes too far with the insults. The core argument he's making is that you can't really complain about money when you choose to not expand your brand. When you choose to only make a few videos a year, yeah the "algorithm" won't favor you. Sure it seems unfair that playing games will earn you more money than animating an original video. While Destiny was being condescending he probably actually would help someone make more money if they asked him. I've only been watching for 4 months and I like to think I have a wider picture of destiny than someone who's only vaguely heard of him. I'm trying not to be a whiteknight dicksucker here, but other than him going full autism triggered mode his points are essentially correct.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51977088]you're not going to find me arguing that destiny isn't an asshole I just don't think it's necessarily contradictory to both think you fucked up by not intervening in your best friends' suicide and tell people to kill themselves when you're trading insults over the internet[/QUOTE] If any of us here have raged in chat in a computer game online, I doubt many of us have put any real vitriol into anything we've said. It's very easy to get an emotional release from just saying something without thinking. I highly doubt he puts a genuine threat into his saying "kill yourself."

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51977094]This is so dumb. It's clearly a thing that he regrets incredibly deeply and guilt-tripping him for it is absolutely pathetic. Whether he is or isnt responsible for his friends death is impossible to know for sure and it doesnt fucking matter.[/QUOTE] It's not guilt-tripping, it's calling him out on literal raw hypocrisy. For someone who had to learn the lesson about handling the subject of suicide the [I]very[/I] hard way, he's way too liberal in telling people to kill themselves.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51977096]Its not that what he did back then is wrong its that that happened and he still told someone to 'kill themself' Yeah, kind of fair to remind him why he shouldn't be the one to say that.[/QUOTE] That's fine but people are clearly bringing this up as a stand-alone thing and are attacking him solely on this basis. And I don't want to excuse him for it or anything because I really do think that any sort of "kys" message is incredibly awful and I intentionally stray away from it, but it is difficult to drop language habits that you developed over years of stuff like gaming for instance. I developed a really bad habit of saying that things are "gay" or "retarded" and as someone in the LGBT community I can see that it's really harmful and have strived to fix it. What KillRay has told me (as someone who watches way more Destiny than I do, I cant watch league) is that he's cut back on using that phrase a lot which tells me that he is working to get rid of it from his vernacular. This whole character assassination over this is by far the lowest this thread has fallen.

If someone became president and accidentally started a war, and then afterwards told everyone about their mistake and how wrong they were would it be ok if they made a joke afterwards about starting a war? [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Duck M.;51977109]That's fine but people are clearly bringing this up as a stand-alone thing and are attacking him solely on this basis. [/QUOTE] People make mistakes, but people also don't care that people make mistakes, so they shit all over people for making mistakes even though they too, make mistakes its awful and should stop, no doubt

[QUOTE=Destroyox;51977089]Maybe Destiny tells people to off themselves as a defense/coping mechanism of some sort? I dunno this is just me playing armchair psychiatrist. If someone knows more about this then please correct me.[/QUOTE] anything's possible, but usually when anger is involved in coping, it involves blame and not really what you're describing.