Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=J!NX;51977329]I can't disagree with that. It's not reasonable for HIM to be using that but I don't agree with waving it in his face over and over either. You know what I mean?[/QUOTE] I don't agree with how much of a shithead Destiny is being and has been in the past but dangling "lol remember when you mistakenly enabled your friend killing himself" in his face when the very source says he deeply regrets it in response to him saying something stupid in anger is a little bit disgusting

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;51977276]Uhh.... So that's dark. [media]https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/842955850394361859[/media][/QUOTE] Some context on this, [url]https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129423763?t=79m05s[/url] 1:19:05 - 1:20:55 It's pretty clear he was never actually planning to travel across the country and murder this kid and his father, he has always been hyperbolic and inflammatory when frustrated (see today's twitter shitpost melty)

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51977351]No shit is isn't specific enough because that isn't the context. "Kill yourself" is literally a comment meant as an insult especially in gaming communities which Destiny himself is part of. "Lol I hope someone accidentally falls into a Chinese shop and your store goes out of business so you become homeless" is the dumbest shit ever. Thats what an insult being common has to do with anything. People tend to use common insults because the meaning is heard with quickness due to it's commonality.[/QUOTE] I still don't see how common something an insult is makes it ok, merely because its common I'm more of a "Context matters" guy but I think personally that this is more of something that we'll just disagree with because that's how our brains work and that's ok too [editline]18th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Simplemac3;51977327]what the fuck is going on anymore, it seems like the worst possible thing is happening in anything political nowadays every single time everything's calming down and it seems like most people are begrudgingly accepting that Jon said something so messed up it can't just be let go, people are waiting for his response- and then Destiny has a full-fledged fucking meltdown insulting people and shitposting nonstop and now nobody gives a fuck about Jon anymore and I guarantee you there are people out there that have fallen back to Jon's side just because Destiny's being a moron in this separate argument I'm not sure this could have conceivably gone much worse[/QUOTE] It's a bus full of baby seals, and its crashing in slow motion in the end the baby seals will be somehow ok but it doesn't make it less painful to watch

It's seems like the only wining move in social media drama and politics is not to play. Unfortunately, it's seems that nobody part of the discussion can realize that and will desperately try to get that catchy zinger to one up their opponent though petty tactics in vain of having the last laugh. Honestly, it's sad to see from both sides to sink so low to win a shit flinging contest over the internet.

I just can't get over how Destiny being an abrasive idiot about a job is getting dogpiled much, [I]much[/I] harder than Jon throwing people of color under the bus. Destiny did some stupid shit, but less than a day later a bunch of big community names are just destroying him while with Jon they were just completely silent

[IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/b46c01c422631f6962cd2d10ab80c42c.png[/IMG] I wonder if Arin has been watching this whole mess

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51977387]I just can't get over how Destiny being an abrasive idiot about a job is getting dogpiled much, [I]much[/I] harder than Jon throwing people of color under the bus. Destiny did some stupid shit, but less than a day later a bunch of big community names are just destroying him while with Jon they were just completely silent[/QUOTE] It's all about how you react if you react explosively people will DESTROY you for it if you don't really react at all people will notice less Streisand effect basically, just a little different. If you forget about something its easier for it to go away. [editline]18th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=MasterKade;51977390][IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/4ef82b8ab2944e135b6ac64188ab375f.png[/IMG] I wonder if Arin has been watching this whole mess[/QUOTE] Tbh this seems like the best point on the matter of careers

[QUOTE=J!NX;51977392]It's all about how you react if you react explosively people will DESTROY you for it if you don't really react at all people will notice less Streisand effect basically, just a little different. If you forget about something its easier for it to go away.[/QUOTE] Here it's not right or fair, though. One guy is going on a stupid anger-fueled rant and is having his entire personae torn down, one guy was advocating for [B]white supremacist talking points[/B] and all of these people, who have to know that their voices reach loads of people, were all but silent. I think it's fucked up.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51977387]I just can't get over how Destiny being an abrasive idiot about a job is getting dogpiled much, [I]much[/I] harder than Jon throwing people of color under the bus. Destiny did some stupid shit, but less than a day later a bunch of big community names are just destroying him while with Jon they were just completely silent[/QUOTE] It's frustrating but predictable, Jon is an almost universally loved (prior to recent events at least) household name in the YouTube community, Destiny has always had a knack for making enemies and doesn't do himself any favors by being an excessively inflammatory dick on Twitter. People in general are already going to be coming at this at an angle in favor of Jon over Destiny for these reasons regardless of the context, and I can't say I wouldn't be on the same side were I not already a Destiny fanboy with all the context since this whole situation started.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51977406]Here it's not right or fair, though. One guy is going on a stupid anger-fueled rant and is having his entire personae torn down, one guy was advocating for [B]white supremacist talking points[/B] and all of these people, who have to know that their voices reach loads of people, were all but silent. I think it's fucked up.[/QUOTE] People don't want fair, they want entertainment. Which is why drama channels exist and live off of reactionary acts.

[QUOTE=patq911;51977280]*NOT DEFENDING THIS* but Destiny was getting harassed every day for months at that point. It's not like he just exploded at some idiot.[/QUOTE] Was that the same kid when he was playing StarCraft for ROOT? Pretty certain he just called the kid's dad in that case to get him to stop. There's that video of his call talking to the kid on his old archive channel, I can't remember anything from it. I think the whole "I was going to murder someone" thing is taken out of context if it is that same kid. I'm not sure, though.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51977419]People don't want fair, they want entertainment. Which is why drama channels exist and live off of reactionary acts.[/QUOTE] This is losing me respect for a staggering amount of people.

I imagine close friends of Jon if they did cut ties did it off "Camera" and privately so they don't have to deal with that This is a little different than racism, but I will agree that Jon's racism is more 'important' tbh. But at the same time he doesn't really use his channel to justify his position / argue it so I'm not sure if his channel should be involved.

[QUOTE=Deathgrunt;51977376]It's seems like the only wining move in social media drama and politics is not to play. Unfortunately, it's seems that nobody part of the discussion can realize that and will desperately try to get that catchy one up zinger in such a matter petty matter.[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/aEq1DAP.jpg[/t] 1000 hours in photoshop just for you. feel like it's relevant in this current discourse anyways.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51977425]I imagine close friends of Jon if they did cut ties did it off "Camera" and privately so they don't have to deal with that This is a little different than racism, but I will agree that Jon's racism is more 'important' tbh. But at the same time he doesn't really use his channel to justify his position / argue it so I'm not sure if his channel should be involved.[/QUOTE] But assuming that the people involved with the current smackdown were keeping up with Jon's words, they should at least have an [I]inkling[/I] of an idea of the effect destroying the guy that originally uploaded the debate while remaining silent about Jon might have.

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51977482]The only thing to take away from this is that these guys are idiots and hypocrites. I couldn't give a fuck about Destiny because I've never watched his content till JonTron but the entire Newgrounds crew can fuck off aswell. They got on this wagon so quick that you could tell they put this in a skype chat and all decided to tweet about it. I knew they were edgy as shit because I browsed Newgrounds a lot as a teen but I didn't know they were edgy and stupid. Such an obvious circle jerk, like goddamn These guys will complain about shit being taken out of context and the media only to use a NakedApe video disparaging some no name idiot like Destiny to shame him to their massively large fanbase. These people lack any self awareness at all and honestly disgust me. There are people with more integrity on a goddamn internet forum than the majority of these manchildren. The Youtube gaming community that decided to join in can eat a dick too. Lastly, I'll take solace in never watching shitty opinion piece youtube garbage like Shoeonhead, NakedApe, or Sargon. E-Celebs might be the worst type of celebs. If their weren't worse people in the world I'd seriously call them human trash. These are the same people who cry about "special snowflakes" all the time, goddamn. They're all just morons who never left that stupid teen phase.[/QUOTE] You sound incredibly mad throughout the whole thread, chill out.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51977163]I'm not sure about that video, it was on his subreddit and it was deleted, but there's still this [video=youtube;ebEqKC_Nw_I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebEqKC_Nw_I[/video][/QUOTE] Wow... He's so incredibly toxic. The guy makes a dumb comment and Destiny spends 10 minutes bullying the guy, including mocking him for being Romanian.

(I know I said, "just ignore politics," in a previous post. I stand by that. I'm not letting this impact my enjoyment or consumption of content in the slightest. However, I also, naturally, do have a point of view I'd like to express.) I want to give my perspective on Jon and Arin's relation, particularly [I]vis[/I] Jon's recent "racist outburst." A lot of people have jokingly (?) said that the reason Jon left GameGrumps has to be because he was actually an almost-nazi back then, and GG knew they were dodging a bullet. So many people seem to have said this that I can safely presume for at least a few, that's not a joke anymore. We have to remember [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFXpXVZ8ho"]Jon's famous recent roundtable.[/URL] (I'm assuming I fetched the right one, and not some other one. I really don't want to sit through it.) It's here that Jon said, publicly, he was, "red pilled." Prior to that, the most "conservative" views that Jon espoused were mostly ethical concerns, that is, [B]Gamergate.[/B] I'm not here to argue clemency or righteousness on behalf of Gamergate's current state, whatever it might be, but at that particular time there was a well documented and visible issue with ethics in gaming journalism. In it's ways, it was fundamentally a non-partisan issue, that was made partisinal by people trying to insulate themselves against public criticism. Jon, to his credit, after brief and vocal support of better accountability and transparency in Games Journalism, bowed out. Much like he has now after realizing his gaffe here, with Destiny. Prior, he had shown no real "vicious" beliefs, like the endorsement of "white genocide" or "blacks do more crime." Here in lies the issue. Jon, through contacts made during Gamergate, fundamentally discovered that there was something [I]wrong[/I] with the culture he was in. There are [I]real[/I] problems with, well, whatever you call them. SJW's, hard-leftists, "liberals." Typically, these issues are very quiet, have little controversy generated by their being, and are left critically unexamined. Things like [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men"]silence surrounding male domestic abuse,[/URL] or the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali"]no-platforming of "offensive" speakers.*[/URL] *That one might not be who you think it is. Jon was exposed to these things, arguably, for the first time. He wanted to do his due diligence in pursuing the truth, as we all do to one extent or another, and reached out to people who he thought might help. Where-in lies the problem. Some of these things are notoriously under-documented, if not outright ignored by what we typically consider to be "reputable" sources. In writing this post, I scrapped three different points about "men's rights," or, less controversially, men's civil protections, because I couldn't immediately google a source that I thought was acceptably neutral, and I didn't want to rely on mere anecdotal evidence because, [B]shock,[/B] some wit will come along and say, "anecdotes are not sufficient." So, like a particularly desperate alcoholic, he essentially turned to Anti-Freeze. When you reach in to these "difficult" topics, like the actual impact of illegal immigration on crime (human trafficking, in particular sex trafficking, for instance), you almost immediately punch through the thin sheet of credible facts, and have to root around in a bargain bin of used needles and toxic sludge. Doctoral essays and thoughtful theories give way to unsourced infographics, demagogic speakers, and "original research." Not that, "the left," for it's value is all too different in that respect. It's easy to find all sorts of absolute hog-wash from liberal resources, like "Solar Roads, Fuck Yeah!" or, my favorite, a much-passed around, genuinely offensive parable that claimed, for some reason, Russians are a very gender-progressive culture who do not call weak men "girls." (My fiance's family is Russian, and seeing that nonsense shared on Facebook (after a quick check with the family to see, "this is bullshit right?") was one of the only times I've sent an angry message to someone on that platform.) But of course here in lies the problem. No matter what side of the tracks you're on, when you drop the ball with Right-Wing Info that's fabricated, it's all too easy to get seal clubbed. Unlike the offensively simple "leftist" blurbs I pointed to, they are not, patently, capital O Offensive. People can easily plead ignorance and go about their day. But if you buy in to an infographic that shows the relative decline of the American white population, and the [B]explosion[/B] of the Black, Latino, Asian and other minority populations. Woah. Hold up motherfucker. You're a Nazi now. Never mind that infographic plays on things that may even be very acceptable, factually evident truths, like the claim that [URL="http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/05/07/childlessness-falls-family-size-grows-among-highly-educated-women/st_2015-05-07_childlessness-12/"]whites across the board have less children.[/URL] This is a very long way of saying, I don't believe Jon has a sinister and profoundly racist, or even "conservative" past. I think he is, for lack of a better term, "an alt-right stooge." Someone who, desiring to discover more, [B]which we all should want to do,[/B] bought in to some stuff that wasn't really true, which is something we all do some times. I think that's perfectly deserving of a measured and respectable clemency. If for some reason he goes off on racist, misogynistic diatribes, and continues to rely solely on nebulous claims made by infographics and youtube presenters like Thunderfoot or Sargon, then perhaps you might have some stock to claim that he is, truly, in his heart of hearts, somehow, a bad person, in some way. However, those self-same demagogues I named just prior did at least impress him by being able to do what Destiny dazzled so many people with. They spoke plainly, clearly, and simply whipped out "facts" and "sources" when they needed them most. They engaged him, and addressed his concerns. They provided explanations and narratives that supported the world, as he observed it. That is, they engaged in the fundamental steps of the education process that we all learn by. Left or right, white or black. They did not brainwash or play a mean trick on him. But they did deliver something that nobody else would, even if it was of questionable quality. Which is why it is, in my opinion, not wise to galvanize your views with a youtube video, regardless of who made it. After all, you might be endorsing someone who drove a person to suicide.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;51977503] Which is why it is, in my opinion, not wise to galvanize your views with a youtube video, regardless of who made it. After all, you might be endorsing someone who drove a person to suicide.[/QUOTE] I agree with just about everything you said, except that it seems you are lumping in Sargon with the racist alt-right that Jontron is leaning towards. What's so bad about him past the fact that he has shitposts as well as serious posts? I've never seen Thunderfoot so I don't know what he's like. It's not that I am endorsing him as perfect, obviously, I am just saying he seems very good at being level headed and facilitating discussions in a rational manner. I don't get all the hate for him.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51977406]Here it's not right or fair, though. One guy is going on a stupid anger-fueled rant and is having his entire personae torn down, one guy was advocating for [B]white supremacist talking points[/B] and all of these people, who have to know that their voices reach loads of people, were all but silent. I think it's fucked up.[/QUOTE] Yeah, Jontron has a lot of friends in the industry and, big surprise, friends will not throw each other under the bus for bad words and ever so brief twitter drama. I think it's ultimately more fucked up that people are actually saying that everyone who knows Jontron should throw him under the bus over some stupid shit he said. I also think it's idiotic to expect these people to have these discussions [I]publicly[/I]. If they have to speak to Jontron over his opinions, and I'm sure at least some of them have, they'll do so [I]in private[/I], where a serious discussion will not turn into drama with random shitwits like Naked Ape getting involved and throwing oil on the fire. No part of professional integrity compels you to shit on people you know, people you [I]work with[/I] on a regular basis, because of their opinions. If anything, a strong sense of professionalism compels you to not let that shit get in the way. It's why groups like DYKG have stated clearly that they do not and will not take a stance on the matter because it is not their business. Their profession, as is the profession of many other youtube channels, are not related to politics at all, and they're not designed to be beacons of ideals of any sort. They exist for entertainment, and entertainment they provide. Destiny's situation is different. He's not getting called out for having bad opinions or anything of the sort, he's being called out for kicking a hornet's nest, said nest being a fairly tightly knit group of people who know each other, have worked with each other, and have a fairly human tendency of not enjoying it when some random streamer decides to call them privileged and needy, and tells them to go kill themselves before melting down on twitter. He started by making this public, insisted on keeping it public with his asinine memes, and got exactly what anyone should expect to get by pulling this sort of retarded shit.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;51977573]I agree with just about everything you said, except that it seems you are lumping in Sargon with the racist alt-right that Jontron is leaning towards. What's so bad about him past the fact that he has shitposts as well as serious posts? I've never seen Thunderfoot so I don't know what he's like. It's not that I am endorsing him as perfect, obviously, I am just saying he seems very good at being level headed and facilitating discussions in a rational manner. I don't get all the hate for him.[/QUOTE] I think your issue has to do with how badly defined and broad the Alt-Right is. Just to quickly rattle off how broad a net the term catches, it grabs everyone from Sargon of Akkad to Milo Yannopolis (urbane, level headed provocateurs) to well, the nameless and shapeless Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists that roam the landscape. From the wild eyed Alex Jones, to the mildmannered White-Genocide-Believers like [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Correia"]Larry Correia.[/URL] (This page used to include a "Controversy" section that has since been redacted.) See also: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Day#Political_views"]Vox Day.[/URL] Edit: Also included under the Alt-Right umbrella are Men's Rights Activists, anti-Globalists, NeoReactionaries, Monarchists, Anti-Zionists (but not necessarily Anti-Semites) and really anyone who is not-quite liberal but doesn't adhere to the GOP in Washington. The fact of the matter is that it is hard to deny that Sargon [URL="https://www.youtube.com/user/SargonofAkkad100/videos"]at the very least, judging by thumbnails, pulls "right."[/URL] There are then sub-arguments about his sources, about the overall spirit and goal of his expressed beliefs. But on the whole, in the same way I might call JonTron an "alt-right stooge," unintentionally peddling and propping up the vast and undefined network of Alt-Right beliefs in a quest for truth, the same could more strongly be said of Sargon. The fact is that the term "Alt-Right" was fabricated just about a year ago, and still fundamentally means nothing short of well, short-hand for "racist, white supremacist." More nobly it might mean, "not adherent to the Institutional American Republican Party," which would then put a lot of Tea Party members squarely in the Alt-Right box, which seems sensible to me. But that would foil the narrative that the term is a catch-all for, quoting the talk page from Larry Correia's wikipedia article, [quote] To me (and perhaps a difficulty with this category is its subjective nature) the "alt-right" tag is reserved for crazy conspiracy theories, badly concealed racism (or indeed unconcealed), and the like. [/quote]

Alt-Right's closer to a buzzword than an umbrella term at this point, with how people use it.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;51977599]I think your issue has to do with how badly defined and broad the Alt-Right is. Just to quickly rattle off how broad a net the term catches, it grabs everyone from Sargon of Akkad to Milo Yannopolis (urbane, level headed provocateurs) to well, the nameless and shapeless Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists that roam the landscape. From the wild eyed Alex Jones, to the mildmannered White-Genocide-Believers like [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Correia"]Larry Correia.[/URL] (This page used to include a "Controversy" section that has since been redacted.) See also: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Day#Political_views"]Vox Day.[/URL] Edit: Also included under the Alt-Right umbrella are Men's Rights Activists, anti-Globalists, NeoReactionaries, Monarchists, Anti-Zionists (but not necessarily Anti-Semites) and really anyone who is not-quite liberal but doesn't adhere to the GOP in Washington. The fact of the matter is that it is hard to deny that Sargon [URL="https://www.youtube.com/user/SargonofAkkad100/videos"]at the very least, judging by thumbnails, pulls "right."[/URL] There are then sub-arguments about his sources, about the overall spirit and goal of his expressed beliefs. But on the whole, in the same way I might call JonTron an "alt-right stooge," unintentionally peddling and propping up the vast and undefined network of Alt-Right beliefs in a quest for truth, the same could more strongly be said of Sargon. The fact is that the term "Alt-Right" was fabricated just about a year ago, and still fundamentally means nothing short of well, short-hand for "racist, white supremacist." More nobly it might mean, "not adherent to the Institutional American Republican Party," which would then put a lot of Tea Party members squarely in the Alt-Right box, which seems sensible to me. But that would foil the narrative that the term is a catch-all for, quoting the talk page from Larry Correia's wikipedia article,[/QUOTE] Sargon, Armored Skeptic, and Shoe-on-Head identify as 'skeptics' for what it's worth. It seems they have denounced the alt-right insofar as it now is understood to be directly linked to racist views. They do not identify as it themselves, but that, I suppose, doesn't mean much. All I can say is that all the people you lumped in together do not really belong in a category together other than, perhaps as you mentioned, one which is meant to indicate a position that is right but not similar to the republicans. The term alt-right isn't really taken in that bare-bones clinical way though. Even then, Sargon is more liberal than right. He seems to mostly champion internal consistency, slowing down moral busy bodies, and opposing what he sees as a movement against freedom of speech which he sees as having many parallels to cultic or religious-right behaviour.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977592]Yeah, Jontron has a lot of friends in the industry and, big surprise, friends will not throw each other under the bus for bad words and ever so brief twitter drama. I think it's ultimately more fucked up that people are actually saying that everyone who knows Jontron should throw him under the bus over some stupid shit he said. I also think it's idiotic to expect these people to have these discussions [I]publicly[/I]. If they have to speak to Jontron over his opinions, and I'm sure at least some of them have, they'll do so [I]in private[/I], where a serious discussion will not turn into drama with random shitwits like Naked Ape getting involved and throwing oil on the fire. No part of professional integrity compels you to shit on people you know, people you [I]work with[/I] on a regular basis, because of their opinions. If anything, a strong sense of professionalism compels you to not let that shit get in the way. It's why groups like DYKG have stated clearly that they do not and will not take a stance on the matter because it is not their business. Their profession, as is the profession of many other youtube channels, are not related to politics at all, and they're not designed to be beacons of ideals of any sort. They exist for entertainment, and entertainment they provide. Destiny's situation is different. He's not getting called out for having bad opinions or anything of the sort, he's being called out for kicking a hornet's nest, said nest being a fairly tightly knit group of people who know each other, have worked with each other, and have a fairly human tendency of not enjoying it when some random streamer decides to call them privileged and needy, and tells them to go kill themselves before melting down on twitter. He started by making this public, insisted on keeping it public with his asinine memes, and got exactly what anyone should expect to get by pulling this sort of retarded shit.[/QUOTE] I think there's a point where that doesn't really work as an excuse anymore. If personal friends didn't want to say anything about Jontron [B]throwing an entire race of people under the bus,[/B] that's understandable. The part I'm disgusted with is that they did that and then as soon as an opportunity presented itself, they figuratively curbstomped the guy that brought up those accusations for something far, far pettier, while still refusing to say a word about it. I'm discouraged by how the entire community came together in under 12 hours to say "FUCK Destiny" after refusing to speak a word when someone said something that could potentially be very damaging in the [I]actual real world.[/I] To act like this would have no effect on public perception of Destiny's positions from the debate is utterly naive. I feel like I can't say it enough that Jon's positions weren't harmless opinions, it was giving lip service to the idea of white supremacy and calling it "rational." [QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977601]Alt-Right's closer to a buzzword than an umbrella term at this point, with how people use it.[/QUOTE] So you mean identical to the usage of "SJW," then.

Who's to say they didn't speak to Jon? I know at least ricepirate did, or so he says- just not in public.

Calling out Destiny for being a dickhead is fine, but digging up shit like how he let his friend die or his parenting skills? That's pretty fucked up. [editline]18th March 2017[/editline] Also why did shoeonhead (or is it just Shoe? June?) delete her tweets? Did she gain self-awareness?

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51977647]I think there's a point where that doesn't really work as an excuse anymore. If personal friends didn't want to say anything about Jontron [B]throwing an entire race of people under the bus,[/B] that's understandable. The part I'm disgusted with is that they did that and then as soon as an opportunity presented itself, they figuratively curbstomped the guy that brought up those accusations for something far, far pettier, while still refusing to say a word about it. I'm discouraged by how the entire community came together in under 12 hours to say "FUCK Destiny" after refusing to speak a word after someone said something that could potentially be very damaging in the [I]actual real world.[/I] To act like this would have no effect on public perception of Destiny's positions from the debate is utterly naive. I feel like I can't say it enough that Jon's positions weren't harmless opinions, it was giving lip service to the idea of white supremacy and calling it "rational." So you mean identical to the usage of "SJW," then.[/QUOTE] Well SJW has mostly been used as derogatory, even at the beginning, wasn't it ? Alt Right still holds a bit more meaning because some people are willing to [I]call themselves[/I] that, but yeah it's not far from having just as little meaning in a serious discussion. As for Jontron, well, best see it this way: they didn't come out to shun him, but they also didn't come out to defend him. They're not taking his side by ignoring the issue, they're staying neutral to the best of their capacity, which does not mean they're not addressing the issue in private (which is where these discussions should occur imho) and does not mean they have to stay out of other ongoing twitter meltdowns like Destiny's current shit. As far as I'm aware and could see during his encounter with Psychic Pebbles, not of the argument had anything to do with Jontron. Which doesn't mean they weren't biased in how much they disliked the guy, but I doubt they went out of their way to bury him just because he talked with Jontron earlier.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;51977654]Who's to say they didn't speak to Jon? I know at least ricepirate did, or so he says- just not in public.[/QUOTE] Nobody is saying it's likely they haven't, but I think that it's irresponsible to not even [I]vaguely allude[/I] to recent events to give support in a tweet not even mentioning Jon- and then go on to collectively fucking destroy the guy he debated when he says some dumb shit in the heat of the moment. I think I've done the kind of thing Destiny is doing now- when people start actively attacking me on something, I get so anxious that I just become incredibly, abrasively defensive on just about everything. I don't think clearly. I'm not saying what he did in the last evening is right, but I can comprehend why it happened a little more than I can comprehend what Jon said. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;51977675]Well SJW has mostly been used as derogatory, even at the beginning, wasn't it ? Alt Right still holds a bit more meaning because some people are willing to [I]call themselves[/I] that, but yeah it's not far from having just as little meaning in a serious discussion. As for Jontron, well, best see it this way: they didn't come out to shun him, but they also didn't come out to defend him. They're not taking his side by ignoring the issue, they're staying neutral to the best of their capacity, which does not mean they're not addressing the issue in private (which is where these discussions should occur imho) and does not mean they have to stay out of other ongoing twitter meltdowns like Destiny's current shit. As far as I'm aware and could see during his encounter with Psychic Pebbles, not of the argument had anything to do with Jontron. Which doesn't mean they weren't biased in how much they disliked the guy, but I doubt they went out of their way to bury him just because he talked with Jontron earlier.[/QUOTE] I don't exactly recall where Social Justice Warrior was coined, but I've certainly seen people trying to reclaim it as a positive term in the past. I do know that it's been repeatedly claimed that Alt-Right was coined by a [I]neo-nazi,[/I] however. Richard Spencer, the one that guy decked. I understand why former friends wouldn't want to blast him in public, I understand why they have their channels to keep in mind and want to avoid taking sides in a politically climate as dicey as this- but as I've already said, I think it's either naive or irresponsible to perform a collaborated teardown of this guy as people are still talking about his scuffle with Jon without so much as making a brief statement about your opinions on race; you don't even have to mention Jon. Because as been said in previous pages, a lot of people watching this garbage judge on character and personalities rather than facts, and if all of their favorite youtubers come together to say "This guy is an asshole" without mentioning Jon's statements whatsoever, well... I just don't like the idea of it in the slightest.

Are we all gonna ignore the fact that craptasket is a white supremancist now going by the thread title

[QUOTE=WhyNott;51977709]Are we all gonna ignore the fact that craptasket is a white supremancist now going by the thread title[/QUOTE] yes