Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51980012]Like, when you play a game and some guy is losing it over the mic calling people retarded faggot niggers and telling children to kill themselves do you not just sit there and think "jesus christ this fucking guy is insane" and it just becomes laughable to you how someone can get that heated over a videogame? basically my view of destiny [editline]18th March 2017[/editline] lmao if that's what you do when you're angry, hey fine dude. Just know you come off as a manchild when doing so. control your emotions friend[/QUOTE] That's exactly the point I, and I assume the others are trying to make, that it's not exactly a mature thing to do of course but it's still a [I]common[/I] thing that people do, and being so hung up on it like people are, bringing up his personal experience with a friend that committed suicide, and calling him a "waste of space" and such because of all of it is stupid, and not even really relevant to the conversation in the first place.

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;51980035]That's exactly the point I, and I assume the others are trying to make, that it's not exactly a mature thing to do of course but it's still a [I]common[/I] thing that people do, and being so hung up on it like people are, bringing up his personal experience with a friend that committed suicide, and calling him a "waste of space" and such because of all of it is stupid, and not even really relevant to the conversation in the first place.[/QUOTE] Oh okay, gotcha. I was mostly just saying I can't stand people like that in general. Not sure what to think about the whole friend committing suicide thing myself, it's a touchy subject.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51979951]A normal person would actually think "I can use any insult to hurt this guy besides "go kill yourself" because I'm not a child stuck in an adults body"[/QUOTE] but destiny is stuck in a child's body

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;51980035]That's exactly the point I, and I assume the others are trying to make, that it's not exactly a mature thing to do of course but it's still a [I]common[/I] thing that people do, and being so hung up on it like people are, bringing up his personal experience with a friend that committed suicide, and calling him a "waste of space" and such because of all of it is stupid, and not even really relevant to the conversation in the first place.[/QUOTE] I wasn't the one who brought it up, it was brought up pages ago as a defense of his character.

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;51979966]Casual use of the term [B]kill yourself[/B], or even more flavorful/descriptive versions of the same has been a staple in internet and gaming circles for [I]years[/I] just the same as faggot, retard, nigger, etc. and I really don't understand [B]why you guys are so hung up on this[/B].[/QUOTE] Oh you :buckteeth:

[QUOTE=Primigenes;51980064]Lol ok, I like the part of your post where you assume I tell people to "kill themselves". [/QUOTE] Well you said normal people do it, are you not a normal person then? [QUOTE=Primigenes;51980064] And now you're addressing a question with something no one gives a shit about. Yeah, they're stupid no one said they weren't. [/QUOTE] If no one gives a shit about the question [I]why the fuck would you ask me the question.[/I]

Now you're just being stupid

primigenes you seem to be getting really worked up and taking a break for a bit would probably be for the best. think over your points and come back a bit more level-headed, and your arguments will be stronger for it

How long is this going to go on for? We get it, E-celebs are also people, and can say some petty shit.

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;51979966]Casual use of the term kill yourself, or even more flavorful/descriptive versions of the same has been a staple in internet and gaming circles for [I]years[/I] just the same as faggot, retard, nigger, etc. and I really don't understand why you guys are so hung up on this. You can not like their usage all you want, but that isn't going to stop people from using them as they have for many years and it doesn't make anybody that does some piece of subhuman trash like you seem to think. Destiny knowing a person that killed himself (yes, even regardless of his involvement) has virtually nothing to do with his casual use of kill yourself, because everybody reacts differently and making light of serious situations can be cathartic. You're being purely driven by personal emotion on the matter, and it isn't even relevant in the first place.[/QUOTE] I'm aware of this phenomenon and I'm guilty of it myself from a few years of xbox live as a teenager (saying gay, retarded, etc. as negative denominations) but at the very least I actively recognize it and work towards curbing my use of it. I don't know if Destiny is doing the same but that's my take. [editline]18th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51980005]idk about the other guys but im not defending him telling people to kill themselves and being an edgelord because he's dumb as shit doing that, but comparing that to a real life mistake he made with his best friend many years ago that he clearly regrets is kinda laughable[/QUOTE] Yeah exactly, and thats the argument I made yesterday too. The thing that I don't really see myself defending is his current use of the phrase given his history.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;51979440]I would need a reference on that, and as far as Donald Trump, he doesn't support him, he just doesn't go out of his way to shit on him. He said Trump was a shitty candidate but not the shittiest. Infact, it looks like he just tweeted about this exact thing; [/QUOTE] He doesn't go out of his way to shit on him (Which, if he had any shred of integrity, he should) because he's too busy shilling for him. Does this look like a man who's picking the "least shitty" canidate to you? [media]https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/833113572867715072[/media] He's also made countless tweets promoting that "anti-establishment Trump pwns media" narrative, and that's just his tweets. Now one might think he's just another idiot who bought into Trump's pathetically transparent anti-establishment persona, but being the [U]Rational [/U][U]Skeptic [/U]that he is, we can only assume that he knows this, and just doesn't care- because skeletal justice warriors getting BTFO is more important to him than any of the most basic values he supposedly holds.

Sargon isn't alt right, but he lowkey panders to them with his content (Which is why he has such a large alt right following.) Mostly with his "haha stupid liberal cucks btfo'd" content and his very neocon esque opinions such as "healthcare doesnt matter" and "i would rather vote tories just to piss off sjws than help the common man"

What was the story of Destiny killing his friend? Is that bs or true?

[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;51980561]What was the story of Destiny killing his friend? Is that bs or true?[/QUOTE] [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7KVvHwU8AMgQwu.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=ImUnstoppable;51980557]Sargon isn't alt right, but he lowkey panders to them with his content (Which is why he has such a large alt right following.) Mostly with his "haha stupid liberal cucks btfo'd" content and his very neocon esque opinions such as "healthcare doesnt matter" and "i would rather vote tories just to piss off sjws than help the common man"[/QUOTE] I think he'd buy Fred Phelps a yacht with disabled orphans' welfare checks if he thought it might upset a woman with short pink hair somewhere.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;51980510]He's also made countless tweets promoting that "anti-establishment Trump pwns media" narrative, and that's just his tweets. Now one might think he's just another idiot who bought into Trump's pathetically transparent anti-establishment persona, but being the [U]Rational [/U][U]Skeptic [/U]that he is, we can only assume that he knows this, and just doesn't care- because skeletal justice warriors getting BTFO is more important to him than any of the most basic values he supposedly holds.[/QUOTE] The worst thing about this whole situation is people say that he's a liberal by linking his political compass test, which is an inherently flawed test especially when used by people like him. The political compass test he uses implies that he [B][I]cares[/I][/B] equally about all the issues. The "Agree, someonewhat agree, neutral, somewhat disagree, disagree." implies how much you [B][I]agree[/I][/B], not how much you [B][I]care[/I][/B]. For example, if I strongly agree that the poor should receive welfare and I strongly agree that the rich should receive tax breaks, they would cancel eachother out on the test and place me on the middle. But in reality, I couldn't really give a shit about the poor. I mean sure, have stamps I guess? But I super duper care that the rich receive more tax breaks to the point where I'm willing to cut other social services. The test would paint me as a moderate still. This effect is amplified when you're Sargon of Akkad and believe that his social justice is better than everyone else's social justice. He wants bernie to become president because bernie would implement policies that help the working class, and that's it. He doesn't care about any other forms of social justice. Just himself. [editline]18th March 2017[/editline] I took the same political compass test and it placed me left libertarian (Left-Libertarianism). I took another test that factored in how much I gave a shit about something and it placed me left authoritarian (Social Democratism).

All this demonization because he told someone to kill themselves is pretty ridiculous. It's just an expression of anger. It's pretty much just a more extreme version of telling someone to go fuck themselves. You're not literally telling someone to go fuck themselves. It's not some big groundbreaking thing.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51979128]By confronting what he said [I]in public[/I], which in case you're not familiar with the concept of having friends, is not the best way to handle those things. Public discussions on twitter are not the most indepth and well thought out dialogue you can find on the internet, for a bunch of reasons - the community, the short nature of the messages, the fact [I]anyone[/I] can meddle in, unwanted or otherwise, and potentially cause a lot more problems than was around initially. There's a myriad of reasons why it's a fucking terrible idea and why it's downright retarded to expect other content creators, people whose careers are built on [I]entertainment[/I], not [I]politics[/I], to publicly involve themselves. The fact they're friends with Jontron and that would compromise this friendship is just one of these reasons. And I can't emphasize enough how bringing these things to the public would just spill more oil on the fire and cause [I]more shit to go wrong[/I]. These discussions are not meant to be had on a website like twitter, there's a reason why most of the "debates" on this site turn into a clusterfuck with everyone and everything interjecting and throwing shit at each other.[/QUOTE] Already been over this, but I don't want them to tear down and engage in a flame war with Jon as much as I was hoping for them to make [I]any[/I] vague comment in support. Something as simple as [I]"I don't support what he says, but let's wait and see"[/I] or even something not even mentioning him directly while still rejecting those thoughts. Sky's comment was the former and it was great, for instance. I really doubt that rejecting white supremacist ideals is such a controversial opinion that it'll endanger your channel, considering that people in here are saying even Jon's channel is stablizing after what he said. You might wonder what the point of that is but to a community whose size can't be ignored, these people have reach. Influence. Kids follow these guys. Yet, they avoid the issue altogether when Jon naively or otherwise talked shit on a race, but when the other guy who's only really in focus because of the debate with Jon says something stupid about animators, they go full blast. Digging up his traumatic past- and by the way, I can't stress enough how fucking stupid the idea that he automatically he doesn't regret what happened with his friend because of his choice of insults is, it was probably trained by the competitve communities, they usually use toxic jargon until it starts feeling meaningless- and every big youtuber in this community is divebombing on him, like performing character demolition on one side of the debate while ignoring another will have [I]zero[/I] effect on public perception.

[QUOTE=elowin;51980913]All this demonization because he told someone to kill themselves is pretty ridiculous. It's just an expression of anger. It's pretty much just a more extreme version of telling someone to go fuck themselves. You're not literally telling someone to go fuck themselves. It's not some big groundbreaking thing.[/QUOTE] With all the context surrounding it, it's pretty fucked up.

[QUOTE=elowin;51980913]All this demonization because he told someone to kill themselves is pretty ridiculous. It's just an expression of anger. It's pretty much just a more extreme version of telling someone to go fuck themselves. You're not literally telling someone to go fuck themselves. It's not some big groundbreaking thing.[/QUOTE] The reason people are upset is because he had a friend of his commit suicide, had prior knowledge of his plans to kill himself and did nothing to prevent it, regrets it, and yet still tells people to kill themselves.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51980977]:alien:[/QUOTE] But even if they just say as something as simple as a disagreement with some of jon's views, the internet has a history of blowing things out of proportion, especially in an instance like this when a lot of people have an "us vs them" mentality, jumping to conclusions and starting rumors and shit. it hasn't happened with Sky yet, as far as i can see, but that's the exception and not the rule, so if i were in their shoes i'd keep my mouth shut too so things don't get even worse. and i disagree with the idea that kids will be swayed into being racist because of this, most kids are smart enough that they can disagree with jon and think destiny's a twat, assuming they didn't already agree with jon's views before all this.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51981301]The reason people are upset is because he had a friend of his commit suicide, was complicit in it, regrets it, and yet still tells people to kill themselves.[/QUOTE] Are you insinuating that "kill yourself" has to be a trigger phrase for him because he dealt with someone who ultimately ended up committing suicide and regretted it? Do you know how common toxic shit like "Kill Yourself" is in competitive game communities? If you spend years playing with those guys, I'd be surprised if you didn't pick up language like that. Sure, it's a shitty thing to say, but pointing to it as absolute 100% proof that he doesn't regret it is [B]really dumb.[/B] It's a cheap "gottem."

I don't so much care about the specific phrases Destiny uses, but it's undeniable that he gets incredibly toxic.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51981325]Are you insinuating that "kill yourself" has to be a trigger phrase for him because he dealt with someone who ultimately ended up committing suicide and regretted it? Do you know how common toxic shit like "Kill Yourself" is in competitive game communities? If you spend years playing with those guys, I'd be surprised if you didn't pick up language like that. Sure, it's a shitty thing to say, but pointing to it as absolute 100% proof that he doesn't regret it is [B]really dumb.[/B] It's a cheap "gottem."[/QUOTE] I didnt say that but okay.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51981372]I didnt say that but okay.[/QUOTE] If all you're saying is that it's shitty he said kill yourself, there's no argument. His experiences have no reason to be relevant.

Saying stuff like kill yourself is fine on a game where that shit's common, but outside of it- over an argument that has [I]nothing[/I] to do with league- it's absolutely unacceptable, and while it doesn't mean he doesn't regret what he does, it makes it all the more tasteless and insensitive And keep in mind i still think bringing up the event was stupid but knowing what had happened after getting told by him to kill yourself probably doesn't make you the most rational man on earth.

How does it being acceptable in the "world of competitive gaming communities" make it okay to tell a kid to kill himself for 6 minutes because he disagrees about boobie streamers on twitch of all things. "I only act like a manchild because I played too much counter stirke" come on now

TBH, playing with people who talk like that doesn't even make you talk like that unless you let it. It's easy to separate your speech from the speech of those around you if you set up barriers for yourself beforehand.

People are hung up on the "kill yourself" issue for three (in my opinion pretty good) reasons. 1) [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1556449&p=51976223&highlight=#post51976223"]This entire event is a big public Morality Play.[/URL] Therefor, when Destiny gives up the moral highground by resorting to, for lack of a better phrase, "chimping out," yeah, it does discredit his calm-factman demeanor. 2) Regardless of whether or not you think it's "petty" to hold Destiny accountable for things he's said and done in the past, (in my opinion, it's not), Destiny claims to have been deeply affected by a suicide that he had a very minor role in. That he should essentially resort to "kill yourself" as a stock insult while somehow claiming to have grown as a person because of a friend's suicide is, if not blatantly hypocritical, looks so much like it that I can't tell it from real hypocrisy. 3) Taking those two things together, it does actively diminish the "size" of Jon's sins. There are [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1556449&p=51977503&highlight=#post51977503"]in my opinion[/URL] good reasons not to make too much of Jon grabbing the idiot ball [I]once,[/I] on a [B]live[/B] stream. Destiny on the other hand has a well chronicled history of consistent verbal abusiveness, targeted at people who either cannot defend themselves or do not, by any means, deserve it.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51981448]How does it being acceptable in the "world of competitive gaming communities" make it okay to tell a kid to kill himself for 6 minutes because he disagrees about boobie streamers on twitch of all things. "I only act like a manchild because I played too much counter stirke" come on now[/QUOTE] Literally nobody is saying it's okay, the only thing here that's pissing me off is people trying to point at his past like it's some stunning revelation that he didn't actually care. What happened with his friend has nothing to do with this.