Jon Tron vs Destiny / 4:21 AM - Zukriuchen: I Stand by JonTron, unironically - General

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;51982634]debate: "People like me are supposed to listen to people like you talk about oppression in America, it doesn't exist" apolgoy vid: "the african community has had a raw deal, discrimination certainly exists" ???? so he's just joing back on dumb shit he said because it's convenient? lol[/QUOTE] Man says stupid shit, realizes he said stupid shit and corrects himself How is that a bad thing Surely if he changed his opinions then it means he's acknowledged or thinks his older opinion was wrong or bad ? It's not like he backpedaled in the middle of debate, he took a while to let things calm down and rework his stance.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51982638]Man says stupid shit, realizes he said stupid shit and corrects himself How is that a bad thing[/QUOTE] i'm saying it feels like the video is purely constructed to stifle criticism of him to save face and has little to do with his actual views... he didn't go "i was wrong" he just said it

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;51982643]i'm saying it feels like the video is purely constructed to stifle criticism of him to save face and has little to do with his actual views... he didn't go "i was wrong" he just said it[/QUOTE] Why automatically assume he's being facetious ?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51982638]Man says stupid shit, realizes he said stupid shit and corrects himself How is that a bad thing Surely if he changed his opinions then it means he's acknowledged or thinks his older opinion was wrong or bad ? It's not like he backpedaled in the middle of debate, he took a while to let things calm down and rework his stance.[/QUOTE] I'm guessing it's because he glanced over/downplayed some of the more controversial stuff he said which makes it seem like he's only apologizing out of obligation/to cover his ass rather then out of any genuine regret to what he said. At least that's my guess to the line of logic in Sheer Visor's comment.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51982638]Man says stupid shit, realizes he said stupid shit and corrects himself How is that a bad thing Surely if he changed his opinions then it means he's acknowledged or thinks his older opinion was wrong or bad ? It's not like he backpedaled in the middle of debate, he took a while to let things calm down and rework his stance.[/QUOTE] He said it like it was his belief all along and that it only looked otherwise because he was misunderstood or taken out of context. He wasn't taken out of context, he straight up said oppression in America doesn't exist. That isn't realising he was wrong and admitting as such, that's telling people what they want to hear.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51982651]Why automatically assume he's being facetious ?[/QUOTE] because of the huge disconnect between 2 hours worth of insane rants and 5 minutes of carefully crafted content to diffuse the situation?

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;51982692]because of the huge disconnect between 2 hours worth of insane rants and 5 minutes of carefully crafted content to diffuse the situation?[/QUOTE] He didn't really say he was wrong but he was very diplomatic in tone which makes all the difference in the world. Look at Trump's recent state of the union address for another example of this, his rhetoric was exactly the same but his tone was completely different. And the media fawned over him for that.

Call me crazy but I'm not gonna set the bar as low as "recognizing discrimination against blacks and the Irish". Like, ok, Jon recognizes some really basic historical facts! Hooray? The bottom line, for me, is that I can't accept that he understands the problem people had with his statements if he won't address those statements. I didn't expect him to [I]regret[/I] them - in fact, the idea I saw being thrown around here, that he should've instantly turned around and apologized for all his beliefs, seemed not only unrealistic, but also pretty overbearing, regardless of what those beliefs are. That's not what I'm asking for. I'm just disappointed he had [B]zero[/B] clarification to offer on the more outrageous shit he said

meanwhile, a lot of people who actually know jon as a person, on personal basis, such as sky (a black guy!), pewds and boogie stand by him. people who don't know anything about him on the internet will continue to question and criticize him and will never be happy with anything he says. it's a never ending cycle until people get bored and move on to something else. it's getting old really quickly

[QUOTE=Keychain;51982902]meanwhile, a lot of people who actually know jon as a person, on personal basis, such as sky (a black guy!), pewds and boogie stand by him. people who don't know anything about him on the internet will continue to question and criticize him and will never be happy with anything he says. it's a never ending cycle until people get bored and move on to something else. it's getting old really quickly[/QUOTE] Get out of here with this shit, man. Quit trying to paint everyone who doesn't like JonTron's stance as a mindless mob of haters (and quit trying to use "he has a black friend" as an excuse because holy shit that's lame) Who the fuck are you to say I, or anyone else here, is going to stop at nothing and accept no explanations? You sure as hell don't know that. I'm fully open to Jon explaining how and where his statements were misconstrued, but all he's given us so far is a half-assed apology

Yeah, because we definitely hate Jontron to be cool. [sp]I made a reaction channel for him, countless video and shit, do you think I want to fucking hate him? I thought Jon leaving Game Grumps was the worst thing to happen to that show. After this debate became available, I understand why.[/sp] I just, don't seem to understand what Jon is trying to say in this video, other then that apologies for some things he said. I respect that, but there is still a lot of shit that he doesn't acknowledge, which to me, terrifies me that it's a massive attempt to back pedal. He also deleted his Q and A video, or at least made it unlisted, which is also a major warning sign tbh...

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51982935]Get out of here with this shit, man. Quit trying to paint everyone who doesn't like JonTron's stance as a mindless mob of haters (and quit trying to use "he has a black friend" as an excuse because holy shit that's lame) Who the fuck are you to say I, or anyone else here, is going to stop at nothing and accept no explanations? You sure as hell don't know that. I'm fully open to Jon explaining how and where his statements were misconstrued, but all he's given us so far is a half-assed apology[/QUOTE] i literally just pointed out in a 3 word parenthesis that someone who was on the opposite end of jon's racist remarks is willing to understand and be compassionate about the situation. if sky was willing to accept this video as an answer, then so should you. i'm not using sky as an excuse for his actions, i'm using sky as a reason to be open-minded about forgiveness towards someone who admitted to making mistakes he has already said, that a lot of what he said during the debate was due to pressure and lack of debating skills. what more do you need? he has no obligation to point out which of his points came out real and what others came out wrong, because the entire debate in itself as an unprepared, unscripted mess for a man who's no good at debating. there's no point.

[QUOTE=Keychain;51982902]meanwhile, a lot of people who actually know jon as a person, on personal basis, such as sky (a black guy!), pewds and boogie stand by him. people who don't know anything about him on the internet will continue to question and criticize him and will never be happy with anything he says. it's a never ending cycle until people get bored and move on to something else. it's getting old really quickly[/QUOTE] Yeah they stand by him because he's their friend and they know him personally in a way we don't, that doesn't mean they stand by what he said. TB and Sky at least both said they disagree strongly with what he said. [QUOTE=Keychain;51982948]if sky was willing to accept this video as an answer, then so should you.[/QUOTE] No... not really.

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;51982949]Yeah they stand by him because he's their friend and they know him personally in a way we don't, that doesn't mean they stand by what he said. TB and Sky at least both said they disagree strongly with what he said.[/QUOTE] how is that relevant at all? when did i ever say any of these people agree with him?

[QUOTE=Xubs;51982956] i dont think just saying "well his friends like him" is a smart move, especially given the circumstances.[/QUOTE] For all we know they're racists too

[QUOTE=Keychain;51982948]i literally just pointed out in a 3 word parenthesis that someone who was on the opposite end of jon's racist remarks is willing to understand and be compassionate about the situation. if sky was willing to accept this video as an answer, then so should you. i'm not using sky as an excuse for his actions, i'm using sky as a reason to be open-minded about forgiveness towards someone who admitted to making mistakes he has already said, that a lot of what he said during the debate was due to pressure and lack of debating skills. what more do you need? he has no obligation to point out which of his points came out real and what others came out wrong, because the entire debate in itself as an unprepared, unscripted mess for a man who's no good at debating. there's no point.[/QUOTE] Who's to say I have to accept this as an answer in order to be open-minded? Nowhere will you see me saying Jon is ~forever lost to the confines of the alt-right~ just because he was a dumbass in the debate. Forgiving him for his dangerously misinformed views is not the same as accepting just about any lazy ass apology. That's not how people grow and come to new understandings, that's just sweeping shit under the rug. If 'open-mindedness' is what you're really here to preach, then stop with the self righteous "my way or the highway" approach, and know that this isn't as binary as you seem to think.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51982976]Who's to say I have to accept this as an answer in order to be open-minded? Nowhere will you see me saying Jon is ~forever lost to the confines of the alt-right~ just because he was a dumbass in the debate. Forgiving him for his dangerously misinformed views is not the same as accepting just about any lazy ass apology. That's not how people grow and come to new understandings, that's just sweeping shit under the rug. If 'open-mindedness' is what you're really here to preach, then stop with the self righteous "my way or the highway" approach, and know that this isn't as binary as you seem to think.[/QUOTE] Fair enough tbh. But the best way to get answers is through said open-mindness and compassion. That's how people like Boogie got their answers before the video went up.

[QUOTE=Keychain;51982989]Fair enough tbh. But the best way to get answers is through said open-mindness and compassion. That's how people like Boogie got their answers before the video went up.[/QUOTE] How would you describe open minded? Because I don't follow what others say, because I have my own ideas. Being open minded is to take and listen to someone, before you condemn those ideas. It's not about just taking everything you hear as good fish. Skepticism isn't a bad thing tbh, and after videos and even the apology is not linked, it seems that he tries to save face of new viewers, and inform older viewers that he said stupid shit. He seems to be scared of people finding the Q and A for example, which makes me a little bit skeptic. If he can't be a 100% open about it, there can be shit hidden, or stuff unturned to save face.

[QUOTE=Brt5470;51982307]He just posted this on twitter: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIFf7qwlnSc[/media] It's a reasonable response.[/QUOTE] It would be a reasonable response if in the original video he said "We should stop thinking in terms of race"... But in the video [i]I[/i] watched, he said "Rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites" and "Oppression doesn't exist in America" So it's actually just a fucking stupid response.

[QUOTE=Asaratha;51982582]then why not say "i was wrong about the things i said" rather than dancing around it?[/QUOTE] He already explained that he ran off of heat of the moment, and admits that he said some stupid shit toward the end of the video. Sure he doesn't specify the quotes but I don't think it'd help him to remind people seeing this what they were. I'm just surprised he made a statement at all. I thought for sure he'd just wait for this to go away since there's really no way to fix this besides "backpedaling" which I knew wouldn't help his situation [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] The large amount of people most upset about this aren't gonna forgive him, doubling down would've made it worse, and the people defending his words are just gonna get mad at him for backing down. I figured his best move was to just forget and move forward never doing this again

I watched the Destiny and Sky video recently and it was one of the best discussions on social issues I've heard to date. My frustration is that barely anybody who wants to talk about this stuff has the right approach, and there aren't enough people who can moderate with alienating everyone.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;51983591]It would be a reasonable response if in the original video he said "We should stop thinking in terms of race"... But in the video [i]I[/i] watched, he said "Rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites" and "Oppression doesn't exist in America" So it's actually just a fucking stupid response.[/QUOTE] I'd rather trust the statement he made while being able to clearly think things through.

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[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;51983748]Because Jon said some racist shit dude. You expect everyone to sweep everything he said under the rug without batting a thought? He didn't even apologise. In fact, what I got from that video is that he still stands by most of what he said. On a further note... why did you mention that he has a black friend? That's something I'd expect Milo to say.[/QUOTE] The way I see it, he said some stupid things in the heat of the moment to try and counter points to get an upper hand in a debate that was over his head.

[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;51983748]Because Jon said some racist shit dude. You expect everyone to sweep everything he said under the rug without batting a thought? He didn't even apologise. In fact, what I got from that video is that he still stands by most of what he said. On a further note... why did you mention that he has a black friend? That's something I'd expect Milo to say.[/QUOTE] you didnt even watch the video if you think "he still thinks most of what he said" also, [B]i get it[/B]. i mentioned sky was black. i did it to provide an example of someone willing to give someone else the benefit of the doubt despite having been the target subject of racist remarks. sky explicitly said that once all of this is over, and if jon's opinions are still clear-cut the same as they were in the debate, then they cannot be friends anymore. but judging by sky's comment on jon's explaination video it looks like they'll still continue being friends. i apologize if it was too far, but please stop focusing on it as if it was my entire argument.

[QUOTE=Keychain;51983781]you didnt even watch the video if you think "he still thinks most of what he said" also, [B]i get it[/B]. i mentioned sky was black. i did it to provide an example of someone willing to give someone else the benefit of the doubt despite having been the target subject of racist remarks. sky explicitly said that once all of this is over, and if jon's opinions are still clear-cut the same as they were in the debate, then they cannot be friends anymore. but judging by sky's comment on jon's explaination video it looks like they'll still continue being friends. i apologize if it was too far, but [B]please stop focusing on it as if it was my entire argument.[/B][/QUOTE] Never said it was. However I still expect more clarification from Jontron himself. Such as more of an explanation or at least an apology.

he says people are saying he believes things he knows he doesn't believe, but then doesn't actually touch on the most outrageous things he said He barely addresses anything he said at all. I mean I guess he admitted that discrimination against the Irish wasn't a myth. his response is practically just "I'm sorry you got upset at what I said", said as nicely as possible.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51983835]he says people are saying he believes things he knows he doesn't believe, but then doesn't actually touch on the most outrageous things he said He barely addresses anything he said at all. I mean I guess he admitted that discrimination against the Irish wasn't a myth. his response is practically just "I'm sorry you got upset at what I said", said as nicely as possible.[/QUOTE] Man nobody is invested in this scenario more than you. 165 posts in less than a week, wow.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51983855]Man nobody is invested in this scenario more than you. 165 posts in less than a week, wow.[/QUOTE] usually people on internet forums go to discuss topics of interest yes

[QUOTE=mchapra;51983877]usually people on internet forums go to discuss topics of interest yes[/QUOTE] [img]https://my.mixtape.moe/wfotgl.png[/img] I'm just saying [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting, second time in a month of you joining" - icemaz))[/highlight]